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  1. gsquared's Avatar
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       #1  
    Take it with a grain of salt but thats the word on the street.
    Support your third-party developers. There just about all we have...
  2. #2  
    Hmm.While anything is possible after the announcement today, Microsoft already has a lot on the line for the XBOX One.

    Remember, their XBOX division is the only consumer-oriented division that generates profits for Microsoft. Their expertise and exclusive IPs create a Halo effect.

    Pardon the pun.
    Apparently, there is not a single trace of Segoe UI on this forum.
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    xandros9 likes this.
  3. crash1989's Avatar
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    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsquared View Post
    Take it with a grain of salt but thats the word on the street.
    Don't want another early morning surprise for a few more weeks. :\
  4. martinmc78's Avatar
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    #4  
    Hmm is that because Elop and Green are technically in charge of the same division?

    Cant see it happening myself. Green will move sideways until Elop gets named as Balmers replacement and then its business as usual
  5. SnailUK's Avatar
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    #5  
    Can't see it myself.

    The whole vision is that Console/Phone/Tablet/Computer all use the same kernel, and apps can be easily ported between them.

    Being that Android can do Phone/Tablet/Console (Ouya), Microsoft definitely need to be working on that.
  6. Zaxiusii's Avatar
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    #6  
    I don't see that happening. After all the time Microsoft put into the "One experience on all devices" I think it would be stupid to devide that. The whole plan for Microsoft is to be in your living room, in your car, on your phone, on your tablet and everything be integrated and in your face at a moments notice. "One" is an extension of that. Rumors are Rumors but that one cant be true.
  7. #7  
    With the not-so-great Windows 8 market and the lagging Windows Phone matter, Xbox is one of the biggest brands with real success right now. They can't really do that now.
  8. gsquared's Avatar
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       #8  
    Personally I'm undecided on whether it would be a good move. I actually think this whole talk is a few larger shareholders (hedge funds - aka, corporate raiders) wanting to release some value from the company. My gut says Big Bill will step-in and put an end to it.
    Support your third-party developers. There just about all we have...
  9. #9  
    How can you be undecided on it? I mean, what would Microsoft gain here? Xbox is their only real example of succeeding in the hardware sector so far, and with this intent to be a "devices and services" company, Xbox is the only device they have with renowned success.
  10. gsquared's Avatar
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       #10  
    It would depend on whether they were able to keep majority control or not. If yes, the division may be able to better function on its own. If no, then they could change on what MSFT has been working towards. Like I stated, I think this is just an attempt by corporate raiders to release value from the company. Or stated otherwise; destroy shareholder value in the company for their own gain. Thats what they are good at.
    Support your third-party developers. There just about all we have...
  11. michfan's Avatar
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    #11  
    How can MS succeed as a devices and services company without XBox console, Xbox games/apps, Xbox Music and Xbox Video? One of their major problems with Win8 and WinPhone is that they've done such a poor job of integrating these services across computer, phone, tablet and console. If they ever get this figured out, it'll be a goldmine.
  12. Blu3V3nom07's Avatar
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    #12  
    I don't like that idea. Then its easier to kill off Xbox, and that's not so great. :/
  13. AR2186's Avatar
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    #13  
    Not going to happen, it isn't really a stand alone business and it runs Windows
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingTraveler View Post
    Remember, their XBOX division is the only consumer-oriented division that generates profits for Microsoft.
    No. The Xbox division is a financial failure. It has lost MS billions over the last decade.

    I think there is a good chance that the Xbox division will be spun off if the Xbox One fails to be profitable. Although I consider that a terrible idea, investors have little interest in long term visions.

    Unfortunately, popularity isn't the same as success.
  15. Polychrome's Avatar
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    #15  
    I call this unlikely. VERY unlikely.

    Whatever you think of Xbox, the purpose has always been to loop everything back to Windows. Love it or hate it, Microsoft likes *Windows* as the dominant gaming platform. Now they're doing all they can to merge the two at last, and *now* we're getting speculation that Xbox is going to somehow leave Microsoft?

    Nah.
  16. TonyDedrick's Avatar
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    #16  
    Who knows? Corporations have done stupider things in the past.
  17. spaulagain's Avatar
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    #17  
    This has been rumored off and on ever since someone noted share holders wanted it sold off. Share holders wanted it sold for short term gain and fear of long term profit margins (or lack there of).

    But it completely goes against the long term goals at Microsoft. And why would they pay $7b on the Nokia hardware decision only to turn around and sell they're only current hardware division.

    Xbox is probably the most respected product/division at Microsoft. Not to mention it has a powerful fan base. It would be self defeating to sell it off.

    Rumors like this should be flushed down the toilet like the rest of **** in the world.
    Reflexx, Vallos and mgkeath like this.
  18. AR2186's Avatar
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    #18  
    It also isn't a viable stand alone business, as it barely breaks even without the true costs of developing an OS (which they would have to do if it spun out). It works as a component of a larger strategy, but not by itself
  19. spaulagain's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    No. The Xbox division is a financial failure. It has lost MS billions over the last decade.

    I think there is a good chance that the Xbox division will be spun off if the Xbox One fails to be profitable. Although I consider that a terrible idea, investors have little interest in long term visions.

    Unfortunately, popularity isn't the same as success.
    Xbox would completely fall apart and the Xbox One would be worthless. Its so much more than just a game console now. Not too mention its built on Windows 8. Its an integral part of the ecosystem. It would be like cutting of they left leg.

    Investors love to swing their **** around to strut their stuff, but ideas like this come from nut jobs only concerned about todays end dollar.
  20. spaulagain's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by AR2186 View Post
    It also isn't a viable stand alone business, as it barely breaks even without the true costs of developing an OS (which they would have to do if it spun out). It works as a component of a larger strategy, but not by itself
    Exactly, you'd have to be stupid to buy the thing. A) it's still financially unstable when it comes to profits B) it just doesn't stand on its own and would fall apart without Microsoft's control.
  21. ChMar's Avatar
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    #21  
    When the first Xbox appeared they had to sell at a loss to enter the market. Somehow this was offseted with xbox 360. The cost of OS does not matter as MS charges for testing the games for conformity and gets revenues from sold games so you can say that this offsets the os development costs. Console business do not make profits by selling consoles anymore. They make profit by selling games in the long run. For xbox one MS already announced in the press that each console will be sold for a profit and then you add the revenues from the rest of the services so this division should do just fine financially.
  22. smoledman's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by spaulagain View Post
    Xbox would completely fall apart and the Xbox One would be worthless. Its so much more than just a game console now. Not too mention its built on Windows 8. Its an integral part of the ecosystem. It would be like cutting of they left leg.

    Investors love to swing their **** around to strut their stuff, but ideas like this come from nut jobs only concerned about todays end dollar.
    Ok so when is XBox going to pull it's own weight? By the year 3000?
  23. AR2186's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by ChMar View Post
    When the first Xbox appeared they had to sell at a loss to enter the market. Somehow this was offseted with xbox 360. The cost of OS does not matter as MS charges for testing the games for conformity and gets revenues from sold games so you can say that this offsets the os development costs. Console business do not make profits by selling consoles anymore. They make profit by selling games in the long run. For xbox one MS already announced in the press that each console will be sold for a profit and then you add the revenues from the rest of the services so this division should do just fine financially.
    You can think whatever you want, but this sort of thing is my day job and I can tell you it is not a viable stand alone business.
    1. It makes no money off consoles, and usually loses money on them (which is to be expected)
    2. Xbox is one product, very difficult to get any kind of half way decent valuation on a business with one product
    3. There are too many synergies with the Windows Division (it there should be, which makes it more valuable as a part of Microsoft)
    4. The business is relatively cyclical and dependent and dependent on the success of a new product every 6-8 years. Again, terrible for valuation

    Also, Microsoft said they were "hoping to break even" on the hardware, not profitable. They have announced a drastic reduction in the cost of certifying game updates (=less revenue) and it is completely misguided to equate revenue with profit, as you are not taking into account the underlying costs of that revenue or operating expenses, etc.

    Xbox can be breakeven profitable on the hardware because they don't have to develop the OS themselves, but are piggybacking on Windows development with slight modifications. If they were a standalone business they would be responsible for all o it themselves, which would be very, very difficult to implement profitably
    minus365 likes this.
  24. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by AR2186 View Post
    Also, Microsoft said they were "hoping to break even" on the hardware, not profitable. They have announced a drastic reduction in the cost of certifying game updates (=less revenue) and it is completely misguided to equate revenue with profit, as you are not taking into account the underlying costs of that revenue or operating expenses, etc.

    Xbox can be breakeven profitable on the hardware because they don't have to develop the OS themselves, but are piggybacking on Windows development with slight modifications. If they were a standalone business they would be responsible for all o it themselves, which would be very, very difficult to implement profitably
    Agree.

    Whether or not MS breaks even (ignoring media licensing etc.) depends on unit sales volume:
    Below internal sales estimates = loss (which Sony will be trying very hard to turn into reality)
    Meet internal sales estimates = break even
    Above internal sales estimates = make a slight profit

    Sony is in a similar position. Their investors are also calling for Sony to drop their entire electronics arm. It's the same story all around, except their losses are even larger. Microsoft is in a better position as they can at least make the argument that "the whole is more than the sum of its parts". Sony can't even make that argument.
  25. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by spaulagain View Post
    Xbox would completely fall apart and the Xbox One would be worthless. Its so much more than just a game console now. Not too mention its built on Windows 8. Its an integral part of the ecosystem. It would be like cutting of they left leg.
    Quote Originally Posted by AR2186 View Post
    It also isn't a viable stand alone business, <snipped>. It works as a component of a larger strategy, but not by itself
    We're all on the same side here. We all support Microsoft's long term vision, or we at least share the views of technology enthusiasts. Unfortunately, that isn't a majority view, and society has setup a system that ascribes value to something very different! MS' institutional investors care not one iota that Xbox isn't a viable stand alone business. What they do care about is that the Xbox division is a drag on Microsoft's stock value, profitability and dividend payouts. That they would be killing Xbox is completely irrelevant to them. That's just modern capitalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by spaulagain View Post
    Investors love to swing their **** around to strut their stuff, but ideas like this come from nut jobs only concerned about todays end dollar.
    I'm not sure it is correct to call such a large slice of the population "nut jobs". Real nut jobs rarely wield as much power as these people do. Selfish, parasitic, self aggrandizing, yes, absolutely, but not crazy.

    Considering that Microsoft's Xbox division has lost billions over the last decade, and I'm sure these people have no more patience to let MS spend more money on their Xbox "sideshow". I'm sure that the Xbox console not being subsidized is a consequence of their influence. If that higher price causes the Xbox One to be uncompetitive against the subsidized PS4, then it will be just another reason to scrap the division.

    These people have no love for technology (at least not in their professional role), or the patience for a long term vision to play out. As you said, their job is to siphon off as much money as they can within a "useful" timeframe (under five years), which is why it simply doesn't matter what would happen to an independent Xbox division.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChMar View Post
    For xbox one MS already announced in the press that each console will be sold for a profit and then you add the revenues from the rest of the services so this division should do just fine financially.
    I suspect they will be too, but at this point they really have no choice. IMHO it's be profitable or die. The Xbox One doesn't cost $100 more than the PS4 because it's that much more expensive to build.
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