[conanheath]

Absolutely. I want to know what exactly is in the "other" category that requires 3.7gb of my storage and how to remove it, if possible. The OS is only 1.7gb or so. What else is needed? Does it take 5gb to make this phone work?

[BHFH]

I believe there should be a limited file manager, something that is restricted to the user directory only. There is no need to access c:\program files\ or the c:\windows directory or any other directories in the file system. Sure, what I just described is basically Skydrive but not everyone can afford plans with large quotas/always in areas with fast network coverage or want to use the cloud. We just want to set aside an area on the phone to store whatever we want, and download whatever attachment we want and attach whatever file we want.

[drunkard]

I believe there should be a limited file manager, something that is restricted to the user directory only. There is no need to access c:\program files\ or the c:\windows directory or any other directories in the file system. Sure, what I just described is basically Skydrive but not everyone can afford plans with large quotas/always in areas with fast network coverage or want to use the cloud. We just want to set aside an area on the phone to store whatever we want, and download whatever attachment we want and attach whatever file we want.

When you put it that way, it doesn't sound like such a bad idea.

[spaulagain]

When you put it that way, it doesn't sound like such a bad idea.

Its not a bad idea and I'm sure it will eventually appear in the OS. However there are some details they would need to overcome for security.


Either way, it missing is not the massive disaster some people in this thread seem to think it is.

[drunkard]

I can certainly understand the point of view of someone like ToneZone, who really just wants to be able to email a damn PDF file. Not an end of the world problem, but aggravating enough to make him reconsider his purchase. That is not a good thing.

[andraeseus]

you know what. your right, and every other smart phone on the planet is wrong. You have it figured out.

Adding features that allows/requires users to fiddle around with things they shouldn't need to fiddle with in the first place is a terrible idea. It's like adding a treadmill to every Sony television because their power cords are defective. Fix the problem, don't engineer around it.



As it is now, each app saves files in its own storage area that is isolated from every other app and shielded from direct user access. The only way to access such a file is by uploading a copy to a server, typically SkyDrive, and accessing it there. Unfortunately, not every app can upload files. Even if a particular app can upload files to SkyDrive, that might not always be appropriate. For example, many people have their own NAS servers at home and would appreciate being able to upload their files via shared folders, WebDAV or FTP. The inability to attach arbitrary files to e-mails is a similar problem. As it is now, every app must include these exact same features... over and over again, as part of every individual app. Not good.

These are what I perceive to be the main file related problems. I'm doubtful that a file explorer app is the best way to solve these though.

For anyone on this forum a file explorer app certainly wouldn't cause any problems, but for many of the more casual smartphone users it may. Such an app also has the potential to introduce security holes into the system.

[andraeseus]

When did you become the authority on what "most people need" look at the poll, "most people" here at wpcentral who voted, do NOT agree with you. Are they all wrong? You sound like apple. You know what users want and need MORE than the users. Just because apple has had so MUCH success doesn’t mean Microsoft should model their phone so much like them. Take the good parts like the usability and simplicity and aesthetics (which they have already done) and improve on the draw backs. How the heck do you take away from Apples base by offering the same thing in a different color I know I am exaggerating the comparison here a bit but the point is APPLE DOES THAT. With every release of almost every device they have made. It was essentially the same thing in a different color or shinier package. That is *** backwards. Tell desktop users that they no longer need a file explorer to manipulate files. Look up the definition of OS (operating system). Then look up the definition of words like portable and mobile. The whole POINT is to be able to manipulate files. Not having a file manager is nothing more than and effort for Microsoft to MAKE money off of sky drive. It is that simple. If you want to usher in a new innovative way of thinking and how we look at and use smart phones then start with being PRACTICLE. Nokia n900 has a file manager and it doesn’t give you un-restricted access to the ENTIRE file system (unless you sudogainroot, but no gui for it) and it doesn’t create any MORE of a security issue than any other functionality of the phone. BUT!!!!!!. I am not going to explain the benefits of having it to you because 75% already expressed the need for it and you obviously have your mind made up. I think you should ask more people why they want it first. Then come up with some know it all idea about how important it is.

[ohgood]

Could someone explain how managing files is a security threat, please ?

thanks

[andraeseus]

it's not.

[andraeseus]

I believe that when you graduate to a smart phone and start doing things like sending and receiving mms, email etc. and have gone past simply texting and making calls you are no longer a casual user. The smart phones havehad so much success because the user base has become more tech savvy. The entire world is becoming more tech savvy. Obviously, some more than others (my mom, for example doesn’t need a file manager). What security holes to yous uggest would come from a basic file manager? Not the entire file system as there is probably no need for most users to access that (but for us advanced users the option would be nice). Maybe your right, who needs to organize their data, Let's just let the app do it.

I will give you a few examples of MANY of how this is crippling the functionality of the phone.

32 GB's of storage on the phone.. Why not use it to manipulate, manage, and transport my word, excel, pdf, video, photo, files etc. When I go to the office app I see all of my documents thrown together in one big ol mess. Now the one Ineed for work is in there somewhere under all the drama so what should I do? Should I do a search? Perhaps, however I don’t remember the exact name of it so searching isn’t a good option. I could search for some terms that are in the document which may yield a good result but what if I need to see all documents relating to a particular subject in a nice organized manor? On my other phone Icould just go to my “work” folder that I created and grab what I need but that is not an option with wp8. That would be ideal. That would be productive. Scrolling through dozens of documents sorted in the most visually uninspiring way possible, is not productive.

I use a recorder app to take notes… I want to move those notes to my computer via mass usb, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, mms, or whatever medium I choose. How do I FIND it. Where in the world is it?

My producer emails me a song that he needs a chorus for. I open the email and later try to go back and start working on it… where the heck is IT! How do I work with it and respond to him with the song if I can’t FIND it.

I need to download files using a torrent client to my cell phone but I can’t because where the heck would the files go?
We should do away with all file managers, closets, file cabinets, refrigerator doors and shelves, dresser drawers, those little credit card holders in your wallet, yes let’s do away with that to. Forcing people to upload their important data via something as unstable, unreliable, potentially dreadfully slow, and unsecure, to some other random third party uneccesary remote MS idea called sky box which is equally is thedumbest thing I have ever heard of is a way to sucker the user into spending more money for storage space. It is a circuitous way to have to do some of themost basic things I need to do.

[andraeseus]

I don't think MS will offer a file manager either but as far as the reasoning I think you are wrong. Have you ever used an app in wp8? It looks nice, pretty, and simplistic but the actually usability of it has a steep learning curve. I have been in I.T. and Networking for 7 years now. I stay up on the lattest tech and love new technology. I am fluent in all things MAC and Windows ( I have to be for my job), soem linux but not much. My point is I learn new software and technology very quickly and throughly for a living. Then I use those tehchnologies to be productive and help my company make money. With that being said I am no average user. EVEN I had a hard time with the functionaliy of windows phone 8. It took me a little over 4 weeks with moderate use to master it. Everything that glitters isn't gold and everything that looks simple is it. They could just as easily create a "manager hub" or "explorer" hub or call it what ever, with the same options to scroll left and right. Create, delete, and edit files and folders. Just like with the pictures hub. Your folders arent represented by actually folders but tiles with picture icons on them. It can be the same set up and that would not take away from the current simplicity OS concepts you speak of.

I doubt Microsoft will introduce a publicly accessible file system and a file explorer, no matter how many people ask for it. It appears completely at odds with current OS concepts. Simplicity, as you mentioned, is certainly one reason that stands against doing so.

Furthermore, a file explorer is a solution, but whether or not that solution actually solves the problems people are experiencing is an entirely different question. I'm guessing more often than not it wouldn't.

Finally, there are usually many possible solutions to any given problem, so focusing on a particular solution without having a clear understanding of what everyone's issues are usually isn't worthwhile. I feel that is what is being done here.

[andraeseus]

If they color they cant see then could they change it back? or could the app orvide a safe guard against that kind of thing? why not just omit the colors that would make that possible. Like with the kids hub thingy. or an app that allows you reo revert back from changes you made after reboot if you dont like it? I am sure something can be done.

1. File manager access, especially through 3rd party apps is a security risk.

2. The UI uses the accent color for informative and actionable content. If given full control to the user, they may use a color too hard to see. While you may say that they should just let the user **** it up if they want, there is value to maintaining a certain level of control. Look what happens with Android, I've seen some horrible customizations on those phones.


At my company we've struggled with similar situations with our customers ability to customize colors in our product

[ohgood]

1. File manager access, especially through 3rd party apps is a security risk.

2. The UI uses the accent color for informative and actionable content. If given full control to the user, they may use a color too hard to see. While you may say that they should just let the user **** it up if they want, there is value to maintaining a certain level of control. Look what happens with Android, I've seen some horrible customizations on those phones.


At my company we've struggled with similar situations with our customers ability to customize colors in our product

1 how is file access a security risk ? we are talking about userland file access, right ? You know, the users -own- files.

2 customizations is not the same as file acces/file manager. Its an app, that manages files. this has nothing to do with colors, icon sizes, backgrounds, ringtones, skins, themes, etc

[Dave Blake]

1 how is file access a security risk ? we are talking about userland file access, right ? You know, the users -own- files.

2 customizations is not the same as file acces/file manager. Its an app, that manages files. this has nothing to do with colors, icon sizes, backgrounds, ringtones, skins, themes, etc

Do you know what app sandboxing is?

Windows Phone Security | Windows Phone (United States)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_(computer_security)

A file manager that pulls data from multiple apps or any app or location would delete the sandboxing security feature in WP. That is not to say it can't be done but Microsoft won't be giving us an on phone file manager until it can be done in a safe manner

I dis agree with your second comment customization and file management have a lot in common they both require files to be accessed across multiple apps. This is why we don't have a color wheel for themes. It would require apps to access a non secure file location. If and when Microsoft finds a way to do these things in a safe manner I am sure we will be given these tools. I would rather wait on a safe solution. I am sure will disagree because that is what you do.

[ohgood]

Do you know what app sandboxing is?

Windows Phone Security | Windows Phone (United States)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_(computer_security)

A file manager that pulls data from multiple apps or any app or location would delete the sandboxing security feature in WP. That is not to say it can't be done but Microsoft won't be giving us an on phone file manager until it can be done in a safe manner

I dis agree with your second comment customization and file management have a lot in common they both require files to be accessed across multiple apps. This is why we don't have a color wheel for themes. It would require apps to access a non secure file location. If and when Microsoft finds a way to do these things in a safe manner I am sure we will be given these tools. I would rather wait on a safe solution. I am sure will disagree because that is what you do.

I'm familiar with sandboxing does, yes. Its a great idea, well documented, implemented well and still developing in terms of tweaking what is possible.

I'm not certain how each platform individually passes off information from one to another, but it seems to be working well so far. That may be testimony to -not- doing quite a few things with file sharing, and that current practices are working quite well. Not knowing all the platforms handoff methods is my ignorance, again.

Thanks for yet another personal attack. While it makes for difficult focused discussion, the history added with each one is positive and reliable.

[Dave Blake]

I'm familiar with sandboxing does, yes. Its a great idea, well documented, implemented well and still developing in terms of tweaking what is possible.

I'm not certain how each platform individually passes off information from one to another, but it seems to be working well so far. That may be testimony to -not- doing quite a few things with file sharing, and that current practices are working quite well. Not knowing all the platforms handoff methods is my ignorance, again.

Thanks for yet another personal attack. While it makes for difficult focused discussion, the history added with each one is positive and reliable.

My apologies but I feel as the Admin of this forum it is my responsibility to make sure this community isn't handed false information.

[spaulagain]

Do you know what app sandboxing is?

Windows Phone Security | Windows Phone (United States)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_(computer_security)

A file manager that pulls data from multiple apps or any app or location would delete the sandboxing security feature in WP. That is not to say it can't be done but Microsoft won't be giving us an on phone file manager until it can be done in a safe manner

I dis agree with your second comment customization and file management have a lot in common they both require files to be accessed across multiple apps. This is why we don't have a color wheel for themes. It would require apps to access a non secure file location. If and when Microsoft finds a way to do these things in a safe manner I am sure we will be given these tools. I would rather wait on a safe solution. I am sure will disagree because that is what you do.

Exactly.

This kind of functionality sounds great but isn't as easy as it sounds when you take into account the security measures in place.

Unless everyone wants a vulnerable OS like Android where any app you download could potentially be harmless, then its best we be patient until MS finds a way to do this securely.

[Dave Blake]

Android is vulnerable to good times and functionality but I never had a security issues while using the platform for years.

It would not be much of a risk to create an isolated region (like they do with photos, videos, music, and documents) for misc file types. It seems M$ has a pretty specific review process for apps so only allow access to move these files to a very specific group of apps, even if it's only functional apps created by M$ themselves. The same goes for scheduled downloads, nobody would be so concerned if the M$ designed apps didn't perform so poorly.

Its not about you having a security issue its about the security of the OS. Android is not secure enough for some corporations to use.


As to second part are you a software engineer for Microsoft? If not what are your qualifications? How do you know how easy it would be to make the software. How useful would a file explorer app be that can explore all the files on the device?

[spaulagain]

I'm not all that concerned with viewing all the files on the device.

And I can't speak for how easy it is nor am I concerned with the ease of creating a handset that is more feature rich and functional. It's really giving a pass to not desire any features on your handset that may be difficult to achieve (especially something as useful as downloading and sending a pdf).

We give it a pass because the work and development it would take to safely build such a feature is too for significant for a feature that many people probably would never use, or only use once in a blue moon.

Most of the time, the "share" feature and email forwarding takes care of the use case you desire.

You seem to think that this feature is a game stopper and a massive fail on MS's part. Whereas some of think its a good thing because it insures a secure OS.

With your use of M$ vs MS and your relentless attack on MS for this small feature, you sound like you just hate MS in general. It seems it doesn't matter the logic behind their reason, or how infinitely complicated the feature may be, you think its ****.

[Zeroplanetz]

I don't know about these security threats or not but in a question how hard would it be to create a actual open area for pdf files? Are pdf files the security threat? And I do believe we should be able to move files to a new folder outside of skydrive. I for one don't care at all for cloud use. But I do like ms products more than the competition. Which is why I have a surface and Lumia 920. But again cloud use I'll never use. Personally.

[Dave Blake]

I'm not all that concerned with viewing all the files on the device.

And I can't speak for how easy it is nor am I concerned with the ease of creating a handset that is more feature rich and functional. It's really giving a pass to not desire any features on your handset that may be difficult to achieve (especially something as useful as downloading and sending a pdf).

If you don't need to view files what use is a file manager?

To the second part of your post.
That sounds like a subject for a different thread.


I also want to add if you plug your WP8 device into your PC you can use file manager in desktop to view your files. You can even drag and drop pdf's onto your device them view them on the device

[koolkid09]

I don't see a problem with a file manager. Works wonders for me.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

[brijeshtt]

Yes

[brocktoon73]

I don't care so much about files on my phone as much as my home network. My wife's kindle fire using ES file explorer can connect to SMB shares to access our archived music, photos, etc. It is ridiculous I can't do that on my own home network with a windows phone.

[Dave Blake]

Really how? Like I know you can drop them on your device but PDF viewer gives me no option to browse to PDFs or to open any pdf I haven't already opened from an email link or website.

Once the pdf is on your phone you open it using the office hub. If you don't find it let me know I will upload some screenshots of one I am using on an install this week. Find your pdf in office hub/places/phone.

Also the pdf need to be dropped in the document folder on your phone.