[BeaverJuicer]

Did you own a WP7?

This turkey for someone like me has been cooking since 2010 and trust me, hasn't even turned faint pink, forget golden brown, yet!

If you ate your first undercooked turkey in 2010, you should have known better than to order a new serving before it came out of the oven!

And no, I came from a BlackBerry. Makes a good side dish or dessert topping, but just wasn't cut out to be a main course.

[rockstarzzz]

If you ate your first undercooked turkey in 2010, you should have known better than to order a new serving before it came out of the oven!

And no, I came from a BlackBerry. Makes a good side dish or dessert topping, but just wasn't cut out to be a main course.

But they have the most expensive oven and apparently the best cooks in the kitchen! How can they keep serving undercooked turkey since 2010, I do not understand. But there is hope. Since you've only spent a few months waiting, it will all be nice and rosy. It gets frustrating to see the platform you've ended up loving doesn't go anywhere for 24 months and counting! However, what everyone needs to remember is - this is a marathon for MSFT, not a sprint. They are just redefining time.

[BeaverJuicer]

But they have the most expensive oven and apparently the best cooks in the kitchen! How can they keep serving undercooked turkey since 2010, I do not understand. But there is hope. Since you've only spent a few months waiting, it will all be nice and rosy. It gets frustrating to see the platform you've ended up loving doesn't go anywhere for 24 months and counting! However, what everyone needs to remember is - this is a marathon for MSFT, not a sprint. They are just redefining time.

I am going to keep with this Turkey analogy, because it is really working.

The most expensive oven, and best cooks in the kitchen, can do nothing to speed up the cooking time of that turkey. Yes, the first one came out of the oven too early. For their own reasons, they decided that instead of putting that turkey back in the oven to finish, they would start with a fresh turkey (which is the right choice. Recooked food never tastes as good). Front of the house orders for that first turkey were rather slow, understandably.

But now, there is fresh demand for that new turkey. Franchise agreements are in place, and some franchisees cannot even keep stock on side dishes to go with the turkey. New money has been invested into remodeling the kitchen. Corporate recipes are put in place to make sure there is a consistent turkey experience between all the corporate restaurants. There is a lot to be optimistic about.

But none of that can change how long it will take to cook that turkey.

[martinmc78]

Can Microsoft really afford to take their time in the mobile sector which is growing exponentially?

WP will never be "another idroid with a paint job" because of their (IMO) superior UI, however not having features that stop buyers in their tracks does NOT help the plaftorm. Heck, the editorial here at WPCentral about 8 things that WP needs right now speaks volumes. That editorial, on the most visited WP site, is testament that WP8 just isn't "there" yet.

Heck, how about the stuff that gets actually released, like Kinect? Sure, it's sold extremely well (I have one), but the software and other usage that has come as a result is still kind of weak. I thought by now I'd be sitting on my couch having Skype (there's that four letter word again!) video calls...

Yeah that's the point I was trying to get at. They release the hardware then don't do much with the software. The Kinect for pc is a prime example the hardware and sdk got released and nothing major has really come out of it. The illumiroom tech that got demoed can guarantee that developers will have to do a lot of back end work on the games for it to be enabled and working properly. MS just enable the hardware and then say ok guys get on with it.

[blacktornado]

This. Right here. Most people have no clue what it takes to release software. You can't just throw money at it, or hire more people.

You take that turkey out of the world's most expensive oven before it is done cooking, and all you have is pink bird that could kill you if you ate it. If you wish, you may feel free to purchase the ready-to-eat chicken next door, or get a hamburger from the McDonalds down the street. I prefer well cooked turkey, and will wait till it is done.

Honestly, I'm not a software developer, but I do like to cook.
If I invite friends over and the turkey is not ready yet, I turn on the stove and I make some fast starter.
That is what Microsoft could do: some core function, like profiles and separate volumes are not ready yet? Fine, as "starter" they could put some people "cooking" the pdf reader, or the music app, or the Skydrive app. We would still don't know about the turkey, but at least the starter would be great. But no, all these apps still have missing features.
The guests are starving, and neither the turkey nor the starter are ready? Well, maybe I could warm app yesterday's pie in the microwave and give them that, still better than nothing. But no, let's throw the old but still good pie away (Zune) and leave the guests starving with the companion app..

[rockstarzzz]

Honestly, I'm not a software developer, but I do like to cook.
If I invite friends over and the turkey is not ready yet, I turn on the stove and I make some fast starter.
That is what Microsoft could do: some core function, like profiles and separate volumes are not ready yet? Fine, as "starter" they could put some people "cooking" the pdf reader, or the music app, or the Skydrive app. We would still don't know about the turkey, but at least the starter would be great. But no, all these apps still have missing features.
The guests are starving, and neither the turkey nor the starter are ready? Well, maybe I could warm app yesterday's pie in the microwave and give them that, still better than nothing. But no, let's throw the old but still good pie away (Zune) and leave the guests starving with the companion app..

Welcome to WPC! Excellent first post. I will throw in your first thanks and like too ;)

This is what sort of narrows down what I would have said carrying on with Turkey analogy. Also, if you have the best cooks in your kitchen and the state of the art oven, I am sure it doesn't take long to figure out what can be done to cook the Turkey quicker. Other than the oven temperature there are plenty of things the best chefs could come up with in order to keep the guests on their table and not leave i.e. maybe just make some fake sauce or heat up some sauce while you wait for Turkey - let the guests smell the awesome sauces so that they know something is cooking. But again, don't let those sauces smell for hours because then the guests will be hungry and hunger is never dealt with a calm head.

[martinmc78]

Welcome to WPC! Excellent first post. I will throw in your first thanks and like too ;)

This is what sort of narrows down what I would have said carrying on with Turkey analogy. Also, if you have the best cooks in your kitchen and the state of the art oven, I am sure it doesn't take long to figure out what can be done to cook the Turkey quicker. Other than the oven temperature there are plenty of things the best chefs could come up with in order to keep the guests on their table and not leave i.e. maybe just make some fake sauce or heat up some sauce while you wait for Turkey - let the guests smell the awesome sauces so that they know something is cooking. But again, don't let those sauces smell for hours because then the guests will be hungry and hunger is never dealt with a calm head.

Aww man all this talk of turkey and sauces and starters... Damn im hungry now...

[rockstarzzz]

Aww man all this talk of turkey and sauces and starters... Damn im hungry now...

I feel for ya! As soon as the turkey analogy was extended, I had to get up and heat some left over lasagne from tonight's dinner and eat again! I am so pleased someone invented microwave and fridge!

[iamtim]

I'm sorry, but the turkey analogy doesn't work. If the best cooks with the best oven in the best kitchen make a change in the way they cook a turkey, that doesn't affect the potatoes or the green beans or any other side dish. If Microsoft changes something in the base OS - even something as simple as profiles or a notification system - it could possibly affect every. single. app. in. the. Marketplace. They have to build in checks for that. And tests. And QA.

You can't rush that without taking the chance of pissing off every single developer and user, most of whom are complaining that it's not coming fast enough in the first place.

[rockstarzzz]

I'm sorry, but the turkey analogy doesn't work. If the best cooks with the best oven in the best kitchen make a change in the way they cook a turkey, that doesn't affect the potatoes or the green beans or any other side dish. If Microsoft changes something in the base OS - even something as simple as profiles or a notification system - it could possibly affect every. single. app. in. the. Marketplace. They have to build in checks for that. And tests. And QA.

You can't rush that without taking the chance of pissing off every single developer and user, most of whom are complaining that it's not coming fast enough in the first place.

For example, ability to edit emails before forwarding will affect marketplace apps for all developers? or allowing multiple volume controls will affect developers? or will allowing Windows 8 like backgrounds instead of black and white only in the OS break the apps?

[omniusovermind]

You guys are giving me the munchies and I'm out of groceries. :mad:

[aubreyq]

For the record, I never bought a WP8. I was starving but although the "appetizers" were nicely presented (Lumia 920, WP8 UI), they didn't taste very good. The host stopped talking to the guests and wouldn't say when the turkey will be ready, so I headed to Boston Market (iOS).

Seriously, I already went through 2 years of this (WP7 Samsung Focus). There was pain there, especially never officially getting the post-Mango disappearing keyboard fix (or anything after that *cough* Tango *cough*).

In the words of W: "Fool me once, shame on ... shame on you. Fool me... You can't get fooled again!"

I can't say enough how much I love the WP UI and its responsiveness. Nokia has great hardware as well. I'll definitely return to Windows Phone when I feel they are hitting the ball out of the park with regularity. In the meantime my Focus will make a great music/podcast player ;-)

[LazySunday]

I felt the reason Nokia jumped WP ship is to stop bothering on software side. Symbian had become such a pain... It was stable but required many fixes here and there and was getting really dated with touch interface skins. I thought Nokia made a good decision in choosing the Software giant like MS and stop worrying on software and focus more on hardware which is where they are good at. After two years, MS is letting down Nokia the way Symbian was. In fact Symbian was much better as it had features that are even not available on WP8. The only problem with Symbian was UI. Well, as a saying goes, now MS has a beautiful UI, but hardly any features that 5 years old Symbian phone has.

Now tell me when MS was developing the OS, didn't they think that they need certain basic features in Mobile phone... Like ring volume or editing a mail before you forward or creating a playlist and so on so forth. The so called Portico was not a major fix. Well, there are still many minor things that are to be introduced to call WP8 a complete smartphone. I'm not talking about major things. Yes, major things can take time. But silly features like music player starts playing last paused song when I end a Skype call? I know Skype uses the same API but these are annoying.

I'm a sympathiser for Nokia, constantly claiming that they need third horse in the race as an ecosystem. But how responsible is MS being or justifying the presence of sincere OEM partners it is having right now.

[WinFan1]

I honestly say I find peoples addictions to apps disturbing. and I agree with a previous poster about patience. problem is that people are too worried about showing off the fancy features, ooh look what my phone can do can yours? I prefer safety and information on the go as ive stated. BTW this is imho I don't judge anyone for liking what they like in fact I preach it but, lets be honest the only reason people were clamoring for portico was because it was announced same for Apollo, mango, nodo, and any other update ever announced. Microsoft has many aspects of their business and I think that being patient and allowing them to optimize their products to work the very best with each other is a sacrifice worth making. is windows perfect no but neither is any platform.

[slashd0t]

What phone do you own? says you're posting from a Nexus 4

I currently have a Nexus 4 and a Lumia 920. My 920 is my daily driver (for now) and my Nexus is my travel phone (I live on the road). When on the road I usually have a foreign sim card in my N4 and my reg sim in my 920.

[LeLee092]

All these old WP fan scare me...you all seem act like Gollum having WP as your Precious
I've only had my 8x for 2 months, and sure I get annoyed that I dont have Instagram and Snapchat, but I still love my phone
I'm afraid though that after a year or so and still no instagram I'll turn into one of them...bitter, old, Gollum :/

[smoledman]

So a few people bought the new OS because of its fresh take on smartphones but now in its 3rd year there are still missing features and Microsoft doesn't seem to be in any hurry to address the situation.

I heard that Microsoft cancelled WP dev vacations last fall to make sure they made the WP8 release date. That's how much in a hurry they are - ruining the software engineers' health. Do you think they should literally kill themselves to get more features in by X date?

[aubreyq]

Do you think they should literally kill themselves to get more features in by X date?

If they want to remain competitive and start gaining market share, then yes (but not literally kill themselves).

[WinFan1]

If they want to remain competitive and start gaining market share, then yes (but not literally kill themselves).

the problem is that if they rush to get it ready by x date then everyone cries and complains that it isnt done right, or its not as feature rich, or that it lacks a fancy tile, and so they say "MICROSOFT Y U NO DO THIS RIGHT!!" Although on the other hand if they take the time needed to unify ALL of microsofts products and recently purchased services everyone cries and says "MICROSOFT Y U NO RELEASE AT SAME TIME AS OTHER MOBILE OS'!!!" You cannot have it both ways either you wait and get a good app, or you dont get a cheap app, or you leave the platform without having to deal with either. in the words of the booty warrior "we can do this the easy way or the hard way the choice is yours..."

[rockstarzzz]

Why not make these changes at a faster pace? Taking 2 years to design WP8 in this competitive market isn't good enough. It was okay in days of Windows when Microsoft enjoyed the monopoly. Now they don't. People have options to compare the OS to and when you can compare, its easy to see others marching ahead at a pace faster than you catching up!

[TonyDedrick]

I heard that Microsoft cancelled WP dev vacations last fall to make sure they made the WP8 release date. That's how much in a hurry they are - ruining the software engineers' health. Do you think they should literally kill themselves to get more features in by X date?

I wonder what the f@#$ was going on to be that far behind that vacations needed to be cancelled?

[martinmc78]

I wonder what the f@#$ was going on to be that far behind that vacations needed to be cancelled?

If i remember rightly it was reported that there were massive bugs when they started internal testing so cancelled all leave to get it fixed. May have been just a rumour made up by some ijourno or ianalyst though.

[aubreyq]

the problem is that if they rush to get it ready by x date then everyone cries and complains that it isnt done right, or its not as feature rich, or that it lacks a fancy tile, and so they say "MICROSOFT Y U NO DO THIS RIGHT!!" Although on the other hand if they take the time needed to unify ALL of microsofts products and recently purchased services everyone cries and says "MICROSOFT Y U NO RELEASE AT SAME TIME AS OTHER MOBILE OS'!!!" You cannot have it both ways either you wait and get a good app, or you dont get a cheap app, or you leave the platform without having to deal with either. in the words of the booty warrior "we can do this the easy way or the hard way the choice is yours..."

The thing is that there were some basic things that were not delivered with WP8 and some things were degraded by WP8. For example, not improving the Calendar??? How much effort would that have taken? Also, why was WP8 released with a degraded Xbox Music and Video?

Why not make these changes at a faster pace? Taking 2 years to design WP8 in this competitive market isn't good enough. It was okay in days of Windows when Microsoft enjoyed the monopoly. Now they don't. People have options to compare the OS to and when you can compare, its easy to see others marching ahead at a pace faster than you catching up!

Yep!

I wonder what the f@#$ was going on to be that far behind that vacations needed to be cancelled?

Exactly. I mean, it's become clear that the whole time was spent coding the OS for the new kernel, but it appears that, in the rush to meet the WP8 release date, some major sacrifices were made.

[WasteSomeTime]

All these old WP fan scare me...you all seem act like Gollum having WP as your Precious
I've only had my 8x for 2 months, and sure I get annoyed that I dont have Instagram and Snapchat, but I still love my phone
I'm afraid though that after a year or so and still no instagram I'll turn into one of them...bitter, old, Gollum :/

I just want banking apps. What the **** is hard about this. I don't have them for WP 7 and can't find a few on the windows 8 market place.
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