[Robert Carpenter]

But why would Microsoft send out an update for only notification centre? They will always come bundled with stuff that may or may not need carrier testing. But that's not the only reason carriers want control over this process. If OS updates keep the handsets up to date and new, why would anyone buy another contract with them? Look at how many of us even though in middle of our contracts jumped in to get a WP8!

As for buying new phones.... irrelevant. iOS 6 was available on older devices, but that didn't stop people from buying the iPhone 5. People buy new phones for the hardware. Software has influence, but keeping software up to date will not stop people from buying better hardware...

[BeaverJuicer]

The problem is how slow this is happening. I don't know how MS keeps touting this 3-screen experience when they're not quite there yet. The Skype thing, well people are frustrated that iOS and Android are good to go while what's supposed to be the premier platform for Skype has poo for an app. And I'm sorry but "waiting for the right window" IS what is killing Microsoft right now in the mobile market. They need to speed things up. As far as I understand, MS won't be officially present at MWC 2013. No, they don't have to be but they need to stay relevant and talked about. I seriously don't know what's going on with MS but dragging things out is not helping. Maybe we'll get a "hero" phone every 4 months to keep the interest going, but we need MS to correct the WP8 nags and leap ahead, not catch up.

I think our definitions of slow may be drastically different...

Android users may have to wait years IF they get an update at all - regardless the significance of the issue being addressed.
iOS releases one or two feature (X.1, X.2) releases a year - the rest being small number bug fixes for immediate concerns.
WP8 is 4 months into the wild, and has already received a feature release, which is still in the process of being rolled out.

[BeaverJuicer]

This window was in 2007 around the launch of Windows Mobile 6.5

So they should have rolled Skype into their OS, 4 years prior to purchasing them? That may not have been fast enough for some on this forum.

[aubreyq]

I think our definitions of slow may be drastically different...

Android users may have to wait years IF they get an update at all - regardless the significance of the issue being addressed.
iOS releases one or two feature (X.1, X.2) releases a year - the rest being small number bug fixes for immediate concerns.
WP8 is 4 months into the wild, and has already received a feature release, which is still in the process of being rolled out.

True but has Windows Phone achieved parity with Android and iOS? I think when you go feature by feature (including features in the app themselves), WP falls short. Like I said, the updates on WP are for catching up, except that when WP "catches up" the others sprint ahead right away. Right now MS needs to get moving on the OS and influence OEMs to crank out hardware like phones with bigger screens which seems to be a growing market.

[rockstarzzz]

As for buying new phones.... irrelevant. iOS 6 was available on older devices, but that didn't stop people from buying the iPhone 5. People buy new phones for the hardware. Software has influence, but keeping software up to date will not stop people from buying better hardware...

Windows Phone uses a year old processor and limits camera spec where HTC One cant be a reality. So hardware isn't a selling point on WP. No matter how colourful and capture pics in dark marketing is kicked off! iPhone is all about branding. Did you know Apple has second least spending on R&D amongst top 20 hardware and software giants? They invest that in Marketing. That brainwashing via marketing is one reason I think Apple is so cool and deserves my kudos. For everything else there is an app on Android now.

[rockstarzzz]

So they should have rolled Skype into their OS, 4 years prior to purchasing them? That may not have been fast enough for some on this forum.

I was referring to right time for "OS update"
Not just Skype. Right time and Microsoft is a thing of past. It is now a past leader catching up on many fronts in spite of the highest spend (13%) on R&D for any software company as of 2012!

[nstine20]

In my opinion Microsoft has been slow in the mobile industry, but not because of a lack of development. Instead the problem is Microsoft set themselves back by wasting 2 years developing a deadend OS in WP7. After realizing their mistake they rushed out WP8 in order to maintain what little marketshare they had. Now that they are using a new kernel we should finally start to see some progress with the OS. Had Microsoft developed WP7 with the new kernel, WP8 could have been almost up to if not up to par with Android/iOS instead of having to waste time redeveloping features that were already available in WP7. It also would have avoided the whole issue with WP7 devices being incompatible with WP8.

As for WP8's development thus far, they had an update within two months of release (though not necessarily available for everyone as of yet). That is a good sign, but Microsoft must keep the updates coming if they hope to establish themselves as legitimate contender with Android/iOS.

[BeaverJuicer]

True but has Windows Phone achieved parity with Android and iOS? I think when you go feature by feature (including features in the app themselves), WP falls short. Like I said, the updates on WP are for catching up, except that when WP "catches up" the others sprint ahead right away. Right now MS needs to get moving on the OS and influence OEMs to crank out hardware like phones with bigger screens which seems to be a growing market.

Not having achieved parity with Android and iOS does nothing to change their release schedule. Software development takes time. GOOD software development takes even longer.

[martinmc78]

I was referring to right time for "OS update"
Not just Skype. Right time and Microsoft is a thing of past. It is now a past leader catching up on many fronts in spite of the highest spend (13%) on R&D for any software company as of 2012!

They may spend loads on R&D but do you see how much cool stuff microsoft research comes up with - they put out demos of mind-blowing tech and then it all just disappears and nothing comes of it. Shame really.

[rockstarzzz]

Not having achieved parity with Android and iOS does nothing to change their release schedule. Software development takes time. GOOD software development takes even longer.

You mean Windows Phone 8 OS that was in works since before the launch of Windows Phone 7.1 hasn't had enough time to develop as a good software? I hope you don't think what we have as WP8.0 right is defined as a good software!

How many features of the operating system do you think could possibly need carrier testing? Phone calls, texts, and data (communication). That's the only stuff. Of course the notification center would not come by itself, but as for the carrier communication, this stuff does not change frequently. Once the bugs are worked out, it's finished with until the carriers make some sort of change to the way their own system works.

Features might come that will make operators unhappy. As presumed by most, if Skype comes baked into the OS, it will be vehemently opposed by operators as you are looking into competition to text and calls. Any updates pertaining to that would takes absolute ages to roll out.

[BeaverJuicer]

I was referring to right time for "OS update"
Not just Skype. Right time and Microsoft is a thing of past. It is now a past leader catching up on many fronts in spite of the highest spend (13%) on R&D for any software company as of 2012!

Most of that R&D, is likely spent on backend technologies that the average person uses every day, but has no clue as to their existence.

[rockstarzzz]

They may spend loads on R&D but do you see how much cool stuff microsoft research comes up with - they put out demos of mind-blowing tech and then it all just disappears and nothing comes of it. Shame really.

Microsoft Research is the reason why kinect sensors on mobile devices is a remote possibility in coming 5 years. I think spending money on R&D is the only way Microsoft can lead this race because once you run out of innovations, customers hate you much faster and label you "stale" in no time e.g. Windows Mobile 5 and 6, Apple iPhone 4, 4S and 5. The only reason Microsoft looks like (and is) catching up is because they have got their timings about 3-5 years late in most things since millennium!

[BeaverJuicer]

You mean Windows Phone 8 OS that was in works since before the launch of Windows Phone 7.1 hasn't had enough time to develop as a good software? I hope you don't think what we have as WP8.0 right is defined as a good software!

Actually, I find it to be an excellent piece of software. It's not perfect; it certainly won't be right for everyone. But it is right for me. I find most of what people want WP to do to "catch up" with Android and iOS defeat the purpose of looking at the wireless experience in a whole new way, and would turn the phone into another idroid with a new paint job. I have yet to find something I want to do with my phone, that I just can't.

[martinmc78]

Microsoft Research is the reason why kinect sensors on mobile devices is a remote possibility in coming 5 years. I think spending money on R&D is the only way Microsoft can lead this race because once you run out of innovations, customers hate you much faster and label you "stale" in no time e.g. Windows Mobile 5 and 6, Apple iPhone 4, 4S and 5. The only reason Microsoft looks like (and is) catching up is because they have got their timings about 3-5 years late in most things since millennium!

Completely agree with you. But when they demo stuff like this a year ago

Microsoft Research shows off see-through 3D display, Holoreflector, IllumiShare | ExtremeTech

Then nothing comes out of it, just seems a shame...

[Robert Carpenter]

Completely agree with you. But when they demo stuff like this a year ago

Microsoft Research shows off see-through 3D display, Holoreflector, IllumiShare | ExtremeTech

Then nothing comes out of it, just seems a shame...

Because surely none of that research contributed to the Illumiroom technology rumored to be coming with the next Xbox...

[BeaverJuicer]

3D displays without glasses - the technology is in it's infancy, but it's there. Toshiba's no-glasses 3D TV: How it looks | Macworld
Kinect Sensors
3D modeling of the desktop...

It's coming...
Minority-Report-9-sq-150x150.jpg

[rockstarzzz]

Actually, I find it to be an excellent piece of software. It's not perfect; it certainly won't be right for everyone. But it is right for me. I find most of what people want WP to do to "catch up" with Android and iOS defeat the purpose of looking at the wireless experience in a whole new way, and would turn the phone into another idroid with a new paint job. I have yet to find something I want to do with my phone, that I just can't.

Never felt like creating playlist on your WP? or wanted to edit an email before you forward it to your boss? or wanted not keep appearing online-offline on your messenger & to not annoy your friends? or stop screen rotate annoying while you were reading an article in bed? or never had any company email account that synced fine with WM5, WM6, WP7 but not with WP8?

This can go on, but point being, even though it is boundlessly beautiful and may be notification center or quick toggles or volume controls are going to make it look slightly like idroid, basic stuff that we have learnt to expect out of a smartphone needs to be there, not now, yesterday! I don't care one bit about apps the same way you might not care about orientation lock and I don't care if I don't get a toilet paper app on my phone for another decade. What I do think is hurting here is catch up in the sense of basic functions and those functions that are already there to "just work". Windows Phone 7 just worked. I was able to boast it to literally anyone and tell them confidently that "it just works". WP8 doesn't. Granted it is a new OS, only 4 months old etc, but this has been in work for nearly 2 years now. What happened to rolling out hot fixes? patches? No excuse is good enough to defend the pace of snail that Microsoft has adapted. Yes, if it does wow us with the good software it is taking time to build, I will chew my shoes. But, haven't we heard the same wait for x update, y update and z update story before? - catch up.

[aubreyq]

Not having achieved parity with Android and iOS does nothing to change their release schedule. Software development takes time. GOOD software development takes even longer.

Can Microsoft really afford to take their time in the mobile sector which is growing exponentially?

Actually, I find it to be an excellent piece of software. It's not perfect; it certainly won't be right for everyone. But it is right for me. I find most of what people want WP to do to "catch up" with Android and iOS defeat the purpose of looking at the wireless experience in a whole new way, and would turn the phone into another idroid with a new paint job. I have yet to find something I want to do with my phone, that I just can't.

WP will never be "another idroid with a paint job" because of their (IMO) superior UI, however not having features that stop buyers in their tracks does NOT help the plaftorm. Heck, the editorial here at WPCentral about 8 things that WP needs right now speaks volumes. That editorial, on the most visited WP site, is testament that WP8 just isn't "there" yet.

Completely agree with you. But when they demo stuff like this a year ago

Microsoft Research shows off see-through 3D display, Holoreflector, IllumiShare | ExtremeTech

Then nothing comes out of it, just seems a shame...

Heck, how about the stuff that gets actually released, like Kinect? Sure, it's sold extremely well (I have one), but the software and other usage that has come as a result is still kind of weak. I thought by now I'd be sitting on my couch having Skype (there's that four letter word again!) video calls...

[BeaverJuicer]

Never felt like creating playlist on your WP? or wanted to edit an email before you forward it to your boss? or wanted not keep appearing online-offline on your messenger & to not annoy your friends? or stop screen rotate annoying while you were reading an article in bed? or never had any company email account that synced fine with WM5, WM6, WP7 but not with WP8?

This can go on, but point being, even though it is boundlessly beautiful and may be notification center or quick toggles or volume controls are going to make it look slightly like idroid, basic stuff that we have learnt to expect out of a smartphone needs to be there, not now, yesterday! I don't care one bit about apps the same way you might not care about orientation lock and I don't care if I don't get a toilet paper app on my phone for another decade. What I do think is hurting here is catch up in the sense of basic functions and those functions that are already there to "just work". Windows Phone 7 just worked. I was able to boast it to literally anyone and tell them confidently that "it just works". WP8 doesn't. Granted it is a new OS, only 4 months old etc, but this has been in work for nearly 2 years now. What happened to rolling out hot fixes? patches? No excuse is good enough to defend the pace of snail that Microsoft has adapted. Yes, if it does wow us with the good software it is taking time to build, I will chew my shoes. But, haven't we heard the same wait for x update, y update and z update story before? - catch up.

My point is, NONE of these features were there when you bought the phone. So you bought it, based on future features with no set release date. Microsoft has released a major feature release less than 2 months after it was launched - faster than any other OS has done. But still it isn't good enough.

I will now go back and quote myself, because it still stands. You bought the phone based on unreleased features with no set street date. If you are no longer willing to wait, go buy an android and see how long your update takes then.

[BeaverJuicer]

Can Microsoft really afford to take their time in the mobile sector which is growing exponentially?

It takes time to cook a turkey, regardless of how much you spend on an oven. External market factors are irrelevant. If you take the turkey out before it's done, it will wind up pink in the middle, and could kill your guests.

WP will never be "another idroid with a paint job" because of their (IMO) superior UI, however not having features that stop buyers in their tracks does NOT help the plaftorm. Heck, the editorial here at WPCentral about 8 things that WP needs right now speaks volumes. That editorial, on the most visited WP site, is testament that WP8 just isn't "there" yet.

I completely disagree that 3 of those 8 things (folders, notification center, Instagram) are even necessary or would be good for the platform, couldn't care less about another 3, but do agree that volume profiles and universal search would be nice... Personally, I think that if the platform doesn't offer what a user is after, the user would be SMART not to buy it.

But again, I bought a phone based on the feature set that it had, at the time. That is likely why none of the things that people talk about as "missing" bother me. I made an educated, intelligent decision on what phone I liked best based on its CURRENT feature set. I don't like Android, at all. I have an iPad, and iOS does nothing for me. I care not about how many apps a store has, because I have ones that work for me, doing exactly what I want. I would like to see a better Mileage Tracking app, but that's not a dealbreaker by any means.

When I see someone complaining about their upgrade to WP8 after seeing they owned multiple WP7 phones, and having the same issues as they have now... Well, they should have known better. I have no sympathy for that.

[rockstarzzz]

My point is, NONE of these features were there when you bought the phone. So you bought it, based on future features with no set release date. Microsoft has released a major feature release less than 2 months after it was launched - faster than any other OS has done. But still it isn't good enough.

I will now go back and quote myself, because it still stands. You bought the phone based on unreleased features with no set street date. If you are no longer willing to wait, go buy an android and see how long your update takes then.

It's not about how many "major" feature releases occur in a year, it's about what that updates bring to the table.

If you launch an OS with about 120 missing features when compared to competition, then start releasing 5 updates a year with 4 features in each release you will need 6 years to be where your competition is and in those 6 years even non-innovative competition would have added 50 more features at least that you still need to catch up on!

So, yes everyone got a phone with what the features were at the point of buying WITH the knowledge that Microsoft will be supporting and developing this software further for 2 more years. Now don't tell me you expected 5 updates a year with 4 features each from a software giant like Microsoft when they said "yes we will support & develop that on that hardware for 2 years".

[BeaverJuicer]

So, yes everyone got a phone with what the features were at the point of buying WITH the knowledge that Microsoft will be supporting and developing this software further for 2 more years. Now don't tell me you expected 5 updates a year with 4 features each from a software giant like Microsoft when they said "yes we will support & develop that on that hardware for 2 years".

And that is exactly what they are doing. If you read more into that statement than what you have been getting, that is your own reading. They never said anything more than "we will support and develop for 2 more years." They did not say "major feature releases monthly" or "Skype by Feb 7 2012" or anything like that. They are updating and supporting in exactly the same manner and speed that anybody familiar with OS development cycles would expect them to be doing. I don't expect X number of features with X number of releases a year. To be honest, I expected a couple bug fixes, with a major feature release at about 6 months.

[rockstarzzz]

And that is exactly what they are doing. If you read more into that statement than what you have been getting, that is your own reading. They never said anything more than "we will support and develop for 2 more years." They did not say "major feature releases monthly" or "Skype by Feb 7 2012" or anything like that. They are updating and supporting in exactly the same manner and speed that anybody familiar with OS development cycles would expect them to be doing. I don't expect X number of features with X number of releases a year. To be honest, I expected a couple bug fixes, with a major feature release at about 6 months.

They released Portico and forgot to fix the broken Music app. How is that not one of your expected bug fix?
They released Mango, Tango, Portico and forgot to fix edit before forward in an email. How is that not one of the expected bug fix?

I have been on the same bandwagon 6 months ago, as you are today. Defending MSFT because others were reading between the lines. Yes, they won't say anything in black and white, no one will, not a corporate giant!
But point is - there is an elephant, in fact a few elephants in the room. I don't care, in a way if MSFT busts a move or not, I am more than content and happy with what the OS does for me, but the slow pace at which a software company fixes a software is mind-boggling! I expect this from an advertisement giant like Google, not Microsoft, a company that once enjoyed monopoly for more than 4 decades!

[BeaverJuicer]

the slow pace at which a software company fixes a software is mind-boggling!

This. Right here. Most people have no clue what it takes to release software. You can't just throw money at it, or hire more people.

You take that turkey out of the world's most expensive oven before it is done cooking, and all you have is pink bird that could kill you if you ate it. If you wish, you may feel free to purchase the ready-to-eat chicken next door, or get a hamburger from the McDonalds down the street. I prefer well cooked turkey, and will wait till it is done.

[rockstarzzz]

This. Right here. Most people have no clue what it takes to release software. You can't just throw money at it, or hire more people.

You take that turkey out of the world's most expensive oven before it is done cooking, and all you have is pink bird that could kill you if you ate it. If you wish, you may feel free to purchase the ready-to-eat chicken next door, or get a hamburger from the McDonalds down the street. I prefer well cooked turkey, and will wait till it is done.

Did you own a WP7?

This turkey for someone like me has been cooking since 2010 and trust me, hasn't even turned faint pink, forget golden brown, yet!