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  1. Tiwo's Avatar
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    #26  
    I really don't care if my phone's 720p or 480p, as long as it works good :-).
  2. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomatoes11 View Post
    Software and calibration makes a huge difference. You don't really notice the resolution unless they optimize it right. For example, the screen on my LG Optimus G makes the screen on my HTC 8x look like a joke despite the 8x having the higher pixel density. This is most noticeable in the browser and HD video. Watch the UP 1080p trailer on both and it is night and day.

    However, the more telling example of this is between my Optimus G and Nexus 4. They both have exactly the same screen but the Nexus 4 also looks like crap next to the Optimus G. Software makes a huge difference and I believe that WP8 just isn't designed to do 720p mobile screens justice.
    Your post isn't entirely wrong, but it is somewhat misleading.

    Foremost, the assertion that the operating system has a notable influence on a display's visual quality, or that WP may not be designed to do 720p properly, is simply false. In fact, as far as the visual quality of your display is concerned, the operating system is entirely irrelevant!

    All operating systems, whether it be WP, iOS or Android all end up writing the results of graphical operations to their devices video buffers. These are nothing more than numbers (representing colors) in a designated portion of video memory. That is the end of it. That is to say, an operating systems interaction with a devices display ends there. It goes no further. In other words, the reach of operating system code doesn't go far enough to influence display quality in any way, shape or form.

    The only entities that can influence display quality via "software" are the hardware manufacturers. They do so by determining how the contents of those display buffers are mapped to the physical display. At this point they can setup various profiles that specify gamma curves, maximum brightness, display brightness as a function of ambient light and so forth. Although one might argue that this is where software is involved, it really is more about configuring the hardware. That is why this is the hardware manufacturers job and not the OS developers, not to mention that everything done at this stage is dependent on the make and model of the display being incorporated into the device.

    So, you are correct that there is more to it than just the make and model of the display, but these differences aren't really software and most certainly not OS related.
    akar33 likes this.
  3. #28  
    720p and 480p and lower is noticeable on 4.3" screens and above but 720p vs 1080p isn't really noticeable until over 32". Is 480x800 adequate for a smartphone? Sure it is but there are areas where at least 720p is needed especially if you want the same experience you get at home when on the go. This being said I don't think I would buy an 800x480 phone again due to the process of evolution (new phone must be the same specs or better).
  4. congusano's Avatar
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    #29  
    Those who believe a screen larger than 720p on a small device like this would be noticeable are the same people who believe Monster brand cables offer a "better" digital signal.

    sigh...
  5. boovish's Avatar
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    #30  
    I agree
  6. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by congusano View Post
    Those who believe a screen larger than 720p on a small device like this would be noticeable are the same people who believe Monster brand cables offer a "better" digital signal.
    Because people and their usage scenarios are so different, I don't think it is fair to say that 300 PPI is enough for everyone. A very small minority may be able to appreciate improvements to sharpness above 300 PPI in day to day usage, though I suspect at least 99% of the population will see no real improvement above 300 PPI at all (ignoring imagined improvements and bragging rights).

    My point is that this isn't a black & white issue. Some people, likely far fewer than one in a hundred, will reap real benefits from a 1080p display at 5". Like I said, I can make out differences in sharpness between the Lumia 920 and the DNA, but only when reading high contrast text and I need to shove each device up one nostril to do so. In terms of day to day usage, I find that improvement irrelevant, but others might be more sensitive to sharpness than I am.

    My point is that I don't think this is comparable to the monster cable phenomenon, where electrical measurements leave no basis on which to claim superiority. Displays at 450 PPI are technically superior to displays at 300 PPI, but for most people it just won't be a difference that matters.

    Consequentially, I don't think 1080p displays should be ignored entirely. I just don't think they should be a major priority on WP's development plan. At this point we have other OS features that are far more pressing. If we get 1080p support in WP9, while simultaneously discontinuing support for two of the three current resolutions (I would vote to keep 1280x720), I'll be a happy camper.
  7. jgbstetson's Avatar
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    #32  
    I have the 810 and I've had a lot of hands on time with the 8x. Everything is a trade, in this case battery life for resolution. Give me the battery life, because the much touted specs on screens simply don't make much difference, if any, in real life. In other words, I agree with you 100%.
  8. tomatoes11's Avatar
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    Your post isn't entirely wrong, but it is somewhat misleading.

    Foremost, the assertion that the operating system has a notable influence on a display's visual quality, or that WP may not be designed to do 720p properly, is simply false. In fact, as far as the visual quality of your display is concerned, the operating system is entirely irrelevant!

    All operating systems, whether it be WP, iOS or Android all end up writing the results of graphical operations to their devices video buffers. These are nothing more than numbers (representing colors) in a designated portion of video memory. That is the end of it. That is to say, an operating systems interaction with a devices display ends there. It goes no further. In other words, the reach of operating system code doesn't go far enough to influence display quality in any way, shape or form.

    The only entities that can influence display quality via "software" are the hardware manufacturers. They do so by determining how the contents of those display buffers are mapped to the physical display. At this point they can setup various profiles that specify gamma curves, maximum brightness, display brightness as a function of ambient light and so forth. Although one might argue that this is where software is involved, it really is more about configuring the hardware. That is why this is the hardware manufacturers job and not the OS developers, not to mention that everything done at this stage is dependent on the make and model of the display being incorporated into the device.

    So, you are correct that there is more to it than just the make and model of the display, but these differences aren't really software and most certainly not OS related.
    Thanks for the explanation.

    I wonder why HTC and MS was so lazy with the 8x screen though, the One X shouldn't have the superior screen, it should be the other way around. Although now that I think about it, the coating on the LCD could play a part too. Or a filter like the clear black filter Nokia uses.
  9. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by tomatoes11 View Post
    I wonder why HTC and MS was so lazy with the 8x screen though, the One X shouldn't have the superior screen, it should be the other way around.
    For one, the two screens differ in size, but have the same resolution, meaning each pixel on the One X has a larger surface area. This alone is a huge difference, that will affect at least brightness and viewing angles. Assuming that the difference in size also affects glass curvature and thickness, you can also expect different refractive and reflective properties. Literally hundreds of other things also affect display quality which, when taken together, can make a big difference.

    Whatever the differences are, I'm sure their existence has nothing to do with laziness. I'm also quite sure that MS had no role to play in any of it, as HTC is perfectly capable of doing this without Microsoft's involvement.
  10. americasteam's Avatar
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    #35  
    All of these people talking about how ridiculous anything over 720p is, will be the exact same people loving their 1080p or higher res screen on their next phone. 😋

    Remember folks. You can't compare a tv's res to something you hold just inches from your face. Higher ppi in mobile is needed to produce the same perceived quality as an HD tv.
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  11. danj210's Avatar
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    #36  
    A lot of complaints are with 1080, everything is much more fine and harder to read... Yea on the iPhones screen, but on a bigger screen it could look much much better. I want the 920 so bad!! Lol
  12. travisel's Avatar
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    #37  
    My last WM6.5 Phone the LG IQ was 480p 3.2" display and now I have the Samsung ATIV S 720p 4.8" I would not go back ever!
    I don't see what you people are taking about? As far as saying 1080p HDTV is sharp it's not! 1080p is only 2 Mega Pixel...
    Go look at the new 2160p UHDTV side by side with 1080p then you will see!
    More is always better don't kid yourself. 😎
    ATIV S is LIFE
  13. TK2011's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by travisel View Post
    My last WM6.5 Phone the LG IQ was 480p 3.2" display and now I have the Samsung ATIV S 720p 4.8" I would not go back ever!
    I don't see what you people are taking about? As far as saying 1080p HDTV is sharp it's not! 1080p is only 2 Mega Pixel...
    Go look at the new 2160p UHDTV side by side with 1080p then you will see!
    More is always better don't kid yourself. ��
    Not really. There is a limit on how much resolution human eyes can resolve for a given distance. At normal viewing distance of phone at around 12 inches, you cannot resolve more than 330-340 ppi even if your vision is 20/20. Lumia 920 is 334 ppi. That means 1080p would be a waste on Lumia's screen size of 4.5". All of this have been well established.
  14. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by travisel View Post
    More is always better don't kid yourself. 😎
    You are the type of customer smartphone manufacturers love... easiest to sell low-effort and incremental updates to. I've looked long enough at the DNA and saw no difference in sharpness I would notice during daily use. You might notice a difference in sharpness, but if you think a majority would, then you are the one kidding yourself.
  15. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
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    #40  
    You have quite low standards from what you want from a screen. For me at least I prefer an IPS display with at least 300 PPI. I didn't pull that number out of my ***, it's based on phones I've used and how they moved from ~200-250 to >300PPI.
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  16. #41  
    I disagree with OP, I was playing with my brothers lumia 920 and I have a focus S and you can definitely tell the difference in the screen resolution. Now between 1080 and 720 on a phone, I don't think it will be that much of a difference but between 800 x 480 and 1366 x 768, its about 2x the resolution, definitely noticeable.
  17. BeaverJuicer's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    I can make out differences in sharpness between the Lumia 920 and the DNA, but only when reading high contrast text and I need to shove each device up one nostril to do so.
    I heard that when shoved up a nostril, the Android smells like horsesh**, whereas the 920 smells like adventure... Can you verify? :D

    But seriously, I have gone from a 360 x 480 @ 188ppi to 480 x 640 @ 250ppi and am now on a 768 x 1280 @ 334ppi phone and have noticed huge differences each time, but I honestly think that I have reached the limit of what I would be able to detect. At a normal viewing distance, my phone display looks clearer than my 1080p TV playing HD content. I could see 1080p being worth it on a tablet, but certainly not on a phone that still fits in your pocket.
  18. travisel's Avatar
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    #43  
    I love my ATIV S Super AMOLED 4.8" 720p with 306 PPI 😎 but knowing that Samsung has a new Super AMOLED 5" 1080p @441 PPI coming...can you say Galaxy S4 & ATIV S2 can you say insane!

    Imagine the move from 306PPI to 441PPI is stunning!

    Guys trying to justify 4" 480p less than 300PPI display's that's crazy.

    The human eye can see up to around 425PPI is the limits of the human eye level.

    Samsung new Super AMOLED 5" 1080p 441PPI display has more than 100 pixels per inch more than the iPhone 5 326PPI and stretched beyond the limits of the human eye level.
    Now that's innovation!
    ATIV S is LIFE
  19. James8561's Avatar
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    #44  
    as much as I hate apple, i have to give them the nod in the display and graphics departments.
    they have figured out the best compromise for ppi.
    for smartphones, ppi in the low 300s is optimal.
    for tablets, ppi in the mid 200s is optimal.
    going higher or lower and you sacrifice more than you gain.
    listen to apple on this, guys. they are the ones who made "retina" after all
  20. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by travisel View Post
    and stretched beyond the limits of the human eye level. Now that's innovation!
    Yep, increasing device cost, reducing battery life, reducing frame rates in games and lowering maximum brightness and viewing angles... all those sacrifices... only to achieve an increase in pixel density (PPI) which goes "beyond the limits of the human eye" (meaning nobody can tell the difference) is innovation. /s

    Edit: It isn't entirely useless, but it should be called nerd-focused marketing, not innovation.

    Quote Originally Posted by travisel View Post
    The human eye can see up to around 425PPI is the limits of the human eye level.!
    Hogwash.

    Ophthalmologists do not agree on the amount of detail the human eye can resolve. The experimental approach (asking people to sort images from low to high PPI) suggests the practical limit is around 600 PPI (some say the brain can subconsciously resolve higher PPI but that is somewhat esoteric). However, that really is the best case scenario, implying:

    • perfect eyesight
    • perfect prints (on ridiculously expensive paper, not on a digital display)
    • under perfect lighting combining all the wavelengths of light which are most helpful to the human eye
    • allowing people to get up as close as they want (certainly way below normal reading distance)
    • allowing a lot of time to scrutinize

    Barely anybody has perfect eyesight. Smartphone displays are nowhere close to replicating a high quality print (contrast, reflected instead of emitted light, etc.). In day to day life we don't get perfect lighting. Normal people tend to maintain half an arms length reading distance, and unless you have some kind of pixel fetish, you won't be spending significant amounts of time attempting to discern individual pixels. All that reduces what we are practically able to resolve on a smartphone display, which is why most people don't perceive a benefit beyond 300 PPI.

    I think some would actually look a lot less silly by admitting to enjoying spec sheet pissing contests.
    Last edited by a5cent; 01-31-2013 at 12:49 AM. Reason: see edit
    HeyCori and fifthGear like this.
  21. Chregu's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    I think some would actually look a lot less silly by admitting to enjoying spec sheet pissing contests.
    Well, who doesn't? And that was supposed to be the point in my post ;-)

    The only company that can successful tell people what they do NOT need is in my view Apple.
  22. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chregu View Post
    Well, who doesn't? And that was supposed to be the point in my post ;-)

    The only company that can successful tell people what they do NOT need is in my view Apple.
    Everyone likes pissing contents. I agree ;-) Nothing against that. The question is whether it is spec sheets that define the winner.

    People who actually understand hardware and software technology (professionally involved in development, as opposed to just being interested), are very often less interested in specs sheets, as they recognize them for what they really are (mostly marketing material). They tend to prefer measurements. Tell an IC engineer that you know you've got the fastest smartphone because it contains an 8-core CPU clocked at 2GHz and you will just get laughed at. This has already been debated back and forth a million times, so I'll leave it at that.

    You might also want to take a look at this, which suggests specs may not be quite as important as many think:

    Specs vs performance...
  23. Chregu's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    Everyone likes pissing contents. I agree ;-) Nothing against that. The question is whether it is spec sheets that define the winner.

    People who actually understand hardware and software technology (professionally involved in development, as opposed to just being interested), are very often less interested in specs sheets, as they recognize them for what they really are (mostly marketing material). They tend to prefer measurements. Tell an IC engineer that you know you've got the fastest smartphone because it contains an 8-core CPU clocked at 2GHz and you will just get laughed at. This has already been debated back and forth a million times, so I'll leave it at that.

    You might also want to take a look at this, which suggests specs may not be quite as important as many think:
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I do care about numbers in commercials; what I'm trying to say is that many people do, and if Microsoft can't just ignore that.
  24. congusano's Avatar
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    #49  
    Consumers love big numbers. Cars tout horsepower as a selling point (but you never hear of power to weight). digital camera's tout high megapixel counts (but you rarely hear them talk about the sensor size that is incredibly small). Tv makers tout the contrast ratio as a bazillion to 1 (when in reality there is no standard, so these numbers are rarely accurate).

    Point is, consumers want HIGHER and BIGGER numbers, because they think its always better. That is most often not the case.
  25. BeaverJuicer's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by James8561 View Post
    as much as I hate apple, i have to give them the nod in the display and graphics departments.
    ...
    listen to apple on this, guys. they are the ones who made "retina" after all
    Apple did no such thing. The term "Retina Display" was around for years before the iPhone4. Apple merely took a nice display (which doesn't even meet the ACTUAL definition of a Retina Display), slapped the term on as a marketing phrase, and sold it.

    Analyst Challenges Apple's iPhone 4 'Retina Display' Claims | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

    Stop buying into the marketing crap. It was a nice display for the time. There are many on the market now that smoke it. Like my Lumia 920.
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