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  1. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #51  
    Thurrot likes MS's products, but always is critical of their marketing and general plans for success. Since Nokia is supposed to be a large part of WP's success, he will be critical of them by association.

    If MS expected HTC to be huge then he would have said that HTC is inept and praised Nokia. If MS had Samsung as their big player, he would criticize Samsung.

    He has an opinion just like everyone else. And it's no more valid than anyone else's. I'd actually say in instances about MS's long term business growth, it may be less valid than many others because he's pretty much going to take a Debbie Downer viewpoint most of the time.

    Everyone has that friend that's pretty smart and is fun to discuss stuff with, but is so negative that sometimes you have learned to not take some things they say seriously.

    Yeah. He's THAT guy.
    cckgz4 likes this.
  2. LikeWaah's Avatar
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by erzhik View Post
    Who here joined WP for the first time because of Nokia?
    I did.

    Nokia is not circling the drain. WP8 is still new to the market and these things can take some time. WP8 may not have been an overnight success, but it is far from a failure. Eventually, there will be a critical mass and it will draw the attention of developers. However, it may not necessarily be US-based devs.
    Residing likes this.
  3. #53  
    I joined WP because of Nokia as well. Best camera and screen on a phone, The potential for a great windows 8/xbox ecosystem and the innovative look of WP did it for me. The only concern I have is the divisive nature of Microsoft. The argument that BB10 is supported on all,carriers doesn't mean much because HTC has their phones on all other carriers. Nokia is planning something with Verizon anyways.
  4. AngryNil's Avatar
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    #54  
    I've asked it before, I'll ask it again: what the heck do people think Microsoft can bring to the table? Microsoft's advertising has been so terrible that Lumia is a stronger brand than Windows Phone, it has no expertise in any mobile hardware components, it doesn't have the distribution channels, and will not provide any exclusive software with its devices.

    All the Surface Phone can do is bring 1) an attractive form factor and 2) an attractive price tag. 1) is already handled just fine by HTC and Nokia. 2) won't result in any sizable market share gain if the distribution is restricted similar to the Nexus 4 and the Surface RT.
  5. cashcar1979's Avatar
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    #55  
    I joined WP due to Nokia. Thurrot sucks.
  6. irvin792's Avatar
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    #56  
    Suck it Thurrot! Sorry I had too!
  7. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by crystal_planet View Post
    Well, Nokia is doing rather well for a company that was on life support previously.
    Actually, that remains to be seen. If Nokia returns to solid profitability on the back of Windows Phone sales, we can say it's doing well. Last quarter was horrible (and to be fair, that was expected given the Great Windows Phone 7 Wipe-Out), but right now, Nokia's in severe financial distress.

    It has laid off about 40% of its employees world wide and floated two "junk bond" sub--prime issues in the past 18 months for operating cash.

    That's not a company that is "out of the woods" yet.
  8. wazup113's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by truthsforme View Post
    One of my favorite things out of Nokia camp is when ppl were saying that HTC "copied" Nokia with bold colors on their phone. Nokias response was simply that it doesn't matter because it benefits the entire platform. Makes the entire platform look more appealing than iPhones and androids. This tells me that Nokia ACTUALLY Cares about the success of windows phone more than anything else....and more than Microsoft.
    obviously not because if he wanted the os to grow he would...you know...not put their flagship phone on a single carrier for 6 months and not even the largest one in america. he might get a little more money on the exclusive deal but doubt that. point is he probably just didn't want to sound to make htc/microsoft angry or something
  9. based_graham's Avatar
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    #59  
    old logic.
  10. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by AngryNil View Post
    All the Surface Phone can do is bring 1) an attractive form factor and 2) an attractive price tag. 1) is already handled just fine by HTC and Nokia. 2) won't result in any sizable market share gain if the distribution is restricted similar to the Nexus 4 and the Surface RT.
    So where can I get a WP8 with a physical keyboard? What about a game controller on it? Sure the touch screen slab form factors are being covered by Nokia and HTC, but I don't see anyone bringing a physical keyboard to the table. Plus if I'm shrinking down in size the physical keyboard would come in handy.

    Quote Originally Posted by erzhik View Post
    Let's do a simple test to see if Nokia changed anything. Who here joined WP for the first time because of Nokia?
    I have a HTC TITAN, which I got just before Nokia released the Lumia 800.
    Last edited by Paladinleeds; 12-24-2012 at 03:05 AM.

    "Fortune cookie said: 'Outlook not so good'. I said: 'Sure, but Microsoft ships it anyway'."
  11. truthsforme's Avatar
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    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by wazup113 View Post
    obviously not because if he wanted the os to grow he would...you know...not put their flagship phone on a single carrier for 6 months and not even the largest one in america. he might get a little more money on the exclusive deal but doubt that. point is he probably just didn't want to sound to make htc/microsoft angry or something
    I have a feeling that the reason for the carrier exclusive is to be able to give their phone an attractive price tag. I bought the Lumia for $450 USD with no commitment. That's fantastic for a 32gb high spec device. Meanwhile the HTC 8x being priced at $550 USD despite it having half the amount of memory as the Lumia. With a contract I believe it was $100 for the lumia ($50 for some time) and $200 for the HTC 8X. So I believe that's the role that carrier exclusive played.

    And I also don't believe hat HTC just copied Nokia with bold colors on their phones. I'm sure they were just designing it to match some of the color themes from the tiles.
  12. omniusovermind's Avatar
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    #62  
    Thurott is out of his mind. WP8 will hold a very solid 4th place after BlackBerry 10 launches Jan 30th. Well ahead of Sailfish, Meego, and WebOS.
    crazeee likes this.
  13. D0gsballs's Avatar
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    #63  
    Re the apps, I think a lot of developers were put off when MS announced WP7 phone wouldn't be upgraded to WP8. That means twice the amount of work for them to get an app that works on both platforms, or they have to ignore WP7 and concentrate on a platform that is pretty much starting again (WP8) after wiping out however many millions of devices that can't get WP8.

    If MS hadn't have put the restrictions in place for WP7 meaning devices could have carried over to WP8, there may have been a bit of a stronger position re apps and developers. Although apps for me personally aren't an issue with the exception of no ability to stream any TV. It's the one thing I'm really missing.
  14. truthsforme's Avatar
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    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by D0gsballs View Post
    Re the apps, I think a lot of developers were put off when MS announced WP7 phone wouldn't be upgraded to WP8. That means twice the amount of work for them to get an app that works on both platforms, or they have to ignore WP7 and concentrate on a platform that is pretty much starting again (WP8) after wiping out however many millions of devices that can't get WP8.

    If MS hadn't have put the restrictions in place for WP7 meaning devices could have carried over to WP8, there may have been a bit of a stronger position re apps and developers. Although apps for me personally aren't an issue with the exception of no ability to stream any TV. It's the one thing I'm really missing.
    Try this app called "flash videos." I use that app to stream tv shows, until we get hulu plus
  15. erzhik's Avatar
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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Paladinleeds View Post
    So where can I get a WP8 with a physical keyboard? What about a game controller on it? Sure the touch screen slab form factors are being covered by Nokia and HTC, but I don't see anyone bringing a physical keyboard to the table. Plus if I'm shrinking down in size the physical keyboard would come in handy.



    I have a HTC TITAN, which I got just before Nokia released the Lumia 800.
    Sorry to say this, but phones with physical keyboards are pretty much "yesterday". Demand would not justify cost of designing and building a smartphone with physical keyboard. This is because touch keyboard gotten to a point where majority people prefer it instead of physical. There would simply be not enough demand for it. Its been a couple of years since I've seen someone with a phone that has physical keyboard.
  16. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
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    #66  
    Surface Xbox: A consumption device for games and media

    As Microsoft’s media ecosystem improves in an admittedly weak-kneed way, the firm should consider a 7-inch consumption-oriented tablet to compete with the market leaders in this segment: The Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 7.0, Google Nexus 7, Amazon Kindle Fire HD, and Apple iPad mini. This device would work as they do, providing access to first- and third-party media services such as Xbox Games, Xbox Music, Xbox Video, Amazon MP3/Instant Video/Kindle, iTunes, Barnes & Noble NOOK, and so. Given the form factor, this is one area where an ARM-based device might actually make sense, and my recommendation is to kill off the Surface with Windows RT with the Clover Trail-based device mentioned below. Another excellent idea for this product, which would justify the Xbox branding: Make it compatible with Windows Phone 8 apps and games: Now we have a product that really makes sense.
    Make that have a stylus and support for dual-digitizers MS, then we're talking. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by erzhik View Post
    Sorry to say this, but phones with physical keyboards are pretty much "yesterday". Demand would not justify cost of designing and building a smartphone with physical keyboard. This is because touch keyboard gotten to a point where majority people prefer it instead of physical. There would simply be not enough demand for it. Its been a couple of years since I've seen someone with a phone that has physical keyboard.
    Maybe the reason you've seen this is because the only options for that are in BlackBerry/outdated phones? I for one was certainly forced into that paradigm when it came to choosing my phone (before settling on the TITAN). It ended up being a toss between the BlackBerry 9810 Torch, iPhone 4 (as far as I remember, 4S hadn't yet been released), HTC Incredible S, or HTC TITAN. Only one of those options had a hardware keyboard (7 Pro had not come over here yet, and I did not know about the Dell Venue Pro or LG Quantum)

    "Fortune cookie said: 'Outlook not so good'. I said: 'Sure, but Microsoft ships it anyway'."
  17. cckgz4's Avatar
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    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by irvin792 View Post
    my Nokia has never randomly rebooted. And I have a friend with a GS3 that he has to reboot often and lags at times, he hates it . Tech will always have hiccups and different people will experience different things, that is just the nature of the beast.

    But honestly you cannot argue the fact that it took android "project butter" and massive hardware to even get close to the fluidity of wp7 on antiquated hardware.

    And yes I have used other phones lol. I wouldn't be so naive to make a statement if I had no experience in what the statement was about. Everyone will like different things, I find the WP keyboard to be the most accurate and easy to type on virtual keyboard that I have used. That goes without saying that I obviously have not used all keyboards on all phones. Its just my opinion, not law by any means :)
    This. I love everything about the wp keyboard. I miss it at times.


    Sent from something uhmayzing using my pinkie
    Nokia Lumia 1020/Blu Studio 5.0 LTE owner here...

  18. D0gsballs's Avatar
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    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by truthsforme View Post
    Try this app called "flash videos." I use that app to stream tv shows, until we get hulu plus
    I have seen that before but I was under the impression it only works with sites that are on the apps whitelist - can you add any site? For example does TVCatchup or BBC work through it?
  19. Rico's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by omniusovermind View Post
    Thurott is out of his mind. WP8 will hold a very solid 4th place after BlackBerry 10 launches Jan 30th. Well ahead of Sailfish, Meego, and WebOS.
    Is there room for a fourth place? Perhaps some regions outside North America, where a "good enough" smartphone experience might suffice because the handset price is next to nothing. I can't see any fourth place offering holding any real presence in North America, specifically the US, where carriers dictate where customers buy and don't want to carry any devices they see as dead in the water.
    Microsoft Store employee; opinions are mine.

    I'm on the Twitters.
  20. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
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    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by omniusovermind View Post
    Thurott is out of his mind. WP8 will hold a very solid 4th place after BlackBerry 10 launches Jan 30th. Well ahead of Sailfish, Meego, and WebOS.
    In the UK, I'm not even sure there's room for a third place, never mind a fourth place. Do you really want to see WP relegated to 15 low-end phones only? I sure as heck don't...

    "Fortune cookie said: 'Outlook not so good'. I said: 'Sure, but Microsoft ships it anyway'."
  21. truthsforme's Avatar
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    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by D0gsballs View Post
    I have seen that before but I was under the impression it only works with sites that are on the apps whitelist - can you add any site? For example does TVCatchup or BBC work through it?
    It shows here that you can add a site but I don't understand how. Looks complicated. Download the trial to see if it lets you.
  22. omniusovermind's Avatar
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    #72  
    What I want or don't is irrelevant. Once BB10 goes live, they're going to nail down 3rd place simply because they're already positioned for it with their current user base. From all indications so far, the new phones don't look like they'll be experiencing any of the glitches and problems that are plaguing wp8, and the launch itself appears like it's being handled in a much more polished and professional manner. I find the fact that all of the big carriers are getting on board right away just as they do for iPhone a foreshadowing of what's to come.

    The prototypes have been out on the street for months, the sdk has been in developer hands for months, there's no interference from middleman OEMs, and the OS itself looks more innovative and efficient than what android 4.2 or ios6 (or WP) have going for them
  23. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by omniusovermind View Post
    What I want or don't is irrelevant. Once BB10 goes live, they're going to nail down 3rd place simply because they're already positioned for it with their current user base. From all indications so far, the new phones don't look like they'll be experiencing any of the glitches and problems that are plaguing wp8, and the launch itself appears like it's being handled in a much more polished and professional manner. I find the fact that all of the big carriers are getting on board right away just as they do for iPhone a foreshadowing of what's to come.

    The prototypes have been out on the street for months, the sdk has been in developer hands for months, there's no interference from middleman OEMs, and the OS itself looks more innovative and efficient than what android 4.2 or ios6 (or WP) have going for them
    I disagree. While BB10 does look good, it lacks the ecosystem that Microsoft/Apple/Google have. RIM are pretty much smartphones (and to a lesser extent tablet), as well as backend services. There's no front-end outside of the phones and tablets, unlike Microsoft who has Windows and Xbox 360, Apple with their Macs and Apple TV, and Google with their Chromebook. Heck, they may even have more but those come off the top of my head. Consumers are moving towards ecosystems as a whole, which means that Microsoft has a heck of a chance if they market it right. After all, how many Windows users are there? I'm expecting Apple, Google, and Microsoft to claim the top 3 simply because they're packing full ecosystems. Heck, look at Apple, trying to divorce themselves from Google and make their own services. I think that is a sign of things to come.

    "Fortune cookie said: 'Outlook not so good'. I said: 'Sure, but Microsoft ships it anyway'."
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  24. omniusovermind's Avatar
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    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Paladinleeds View Post
    I disagree. While BB10 does look good, it lacks the ecosystem that Microsoft/Apple/Google have. RIM are pretty much smartphones (and to a lesser extent tablet), as well as backend services. There's no front-end outside of the phones and tablets, unlike Microsoft who has Windows and Xbox 360, Apple with their Macs and Apple TV, and Google with their Chromebook. Heck, they may even have more but those come off the top of my head. Consumers are moving towards ecosystems as a whole, which means that Microsoft has a heck of a chance if they market it right. After all, how many Windows users are there? I'm expecting Apple, Google, and Microsoft to claim the top 3 simply because they're packing full ecosystems. Heck, look at Apple, trying to divorce themselves from Google and make their own services. I think that is a sign of things to come.
    I'm not so sure. MS was banking on Windows 8, Xbox, and Office ecosystems being a catalyst to spark WP8 and Surface RT and so far the numbers don't show that strategy working as well as they hoped. Heck a few months ago I was adamant that their strategy was pure genius on other forums and that WP8 would really take off, and I'm quite surprised to be proven mistaken. I still don't actually believe I was actually wrong - I failed to predict that MS and their OEM partners would throw a wrench into my prediction with several post - launch problems that people are unhappy about. First impressions and bad press tend to stick out even if they patch up their mistakes, especially in the fast moving mobile tech industry.

    Pretend for a minute that the list of ongoing issues that is being passed around here and news media was actually addressed before launch, and that they had finished the missing things like the notification center. And that live tiles were actually as live as people were hoping they would be. I expect we'd see less articles like this, less threads like this, and higher sales reports. Maybe not an eye popping difference but an improvement anyway.

    Back to your original ecosystem point, millions upon millions of people are quite content using iPhones and iPads and androids along with their Xboxes and Windows PCs and there not much indication of that being any different at the present moment. Where ecosystem becomes more important to the average user is when they can use the same purchased apps on both their phone and tablet, and that can be had with any OS
    Last edited by omniusovermind; 12-24-2012 at 07:16 AM.
  25. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by omniusovermind View Post
    I'm not so sure. MS was banking on Windows 8, Xbox, and Office ecosystems being a catalyst to spark WP8 and Surface RT and so far the numbers don't show that strategy working as well as they hoped. Heck a few months ago I was adamant that their strategy was pure genius on other forums and that WP8 would really take off, and I'm quite surprised to be proven mistaken. I still don't actually believe I was actually wrong - I failed to predict that MS and their OEM partners would throw a wrench into my prediction with several post - launch problems that people are unhappy about. First impressions and bad press tend to stick out even if they patch up their mistakes, especially in the fast moving mobile tech industry.

    Pretend for a minute that the list of ongoing issues that is being passed around here and news media was actually addressed before launch, and that they had finished the missing things like the notification center. And that live tiles were actually as live as people were hoping they would be. I expect we'd see less articles like this, less threads like this, and higher sales reports. Maybe not an eye popping difference but an improvement anyway.

    Back to your original ecosystem point, millions upon millions of people are quite content using iPhones and iPads and androids along with their Xboxes and Windows PCs and there not much indication of that being any different at the present moment. Where ecosystem becomes more important to the average user is when they can use the same purchased apps on both their phone and tablet, and that can be had with any OS
    So to put it plainly, WP is dead (will end up not being developed anymore), people will just go iPhone/Android, corporate will go BB10, MS will have to accept that they're a software only company (Windows and Xbox, no WP), and everyone who does currently use WP will have their devices bricked and will have to buy a new non-WP to be able to use their phones again. Seems pretty gloomy to me, I hope I'm wrong about that though by a long shot.

    "Fortune cookie said: 'Outlook not so good'. I said: 'Sure, but Microsoft ships it anyway'."
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