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  1. Rohit Sharma1's Avatar
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       #1  
    -- Sorry i am cross posting this, I initially intend to create this thread on this forum but inadvertently created in Lumia-920

    I am in market for a new phone and I really like WP8 (920 in particular), i have been contemplating over for long and comparing between android and WPs.
    As I am a .net dev., I am inclining towards WP (though i would really like Viber/Rebtel fully working, as I use it almost daily).

    The only thing that bothers me is the thought if MSFT would screw us again by dictating new hardware requirement for WP9 and not letting us upgrade to the new OS without upgrading to a compatible hardware. I want my phone hardware to survive for next 2-3 years at least.

    As a comparison, look at Android, almost all the 2012 android hardware released in 2012 are quad-core > 1.5ghz, LG/Motorola are already touching 2 ghz quad core or with Atom processors (rumor mill has it that Samsung Galaxy S4 would have 2Ghz quad core proc as well). With 2 gigs ram and super ghz multi cores, these hardware can take future release very easily.
    Likewise, Apple let 4 generation old hardware iPhone 3GS upgradable to latest ios releases. Till date the resale value of iphone 3gs is probably one of the best give it is such an old model.

    The best 2012 WP8 model is with 1 gig ram and 1.5 ghz dual core processor, does it not bother anyone why there is such a strict restriction for the vendors, knowing there is already better hardware available in 2012 (GS3 with quad-core released in May 2012) ? Knowing what MSFT did to WP7 users and with strict hardware requirements, I sort of want to back out.

    Thoughts?
  2. pjs37's Avatar
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    #2  
    I am sure if an OEM wanted to they could use better hardware WP8 is supposedly a lot more scalable. However we won't know for sure until WP9 but hopefully they don't do this again.
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  3. Honestabebread's Avatar
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    #3  
    WP8 has support for up to 64 cores and is willing to accept 1080p screens in a future update. I don't think there is a RAM requirement. So no, I don't think WP8 hardware will be left behind.
    RSM for VZW
    Phone history: HTC Trophy, Droid Razr, Curve 9370, HTC Rezound, HTC 8X Blue, HTC 8X VZW Employee Edition, LG Intuition, Nokia Lumia 928 White, LG G2, Droid Ultra VZW Employee Edition, iPhone 5S
  4. CJ Thunder's Avatar
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    #4  
    64 bit only, is an issue. When Windows desktop goes that, I'm sure Windows Phone will do the same as they now share lots of code. I hope that is sooner rather than later but many apps on the desktop are just staying 32 bit.

    Then you can't upgrade. 8 & 9 going to 10 maybe...this is all hypothetical and 6 years down the road so who knows.
  5. thekonger's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rohit Sharma1 View Post
    -- Sorry i am cross posting this, I initially intend to create this thread on this forum but inadvertently created in Lumia-920

    I am in market for a new phone and I really like WP8 (920 in particular), i have been contemplating over for long and comparing between android and WPs.
    As I am a .net dev., I am inclining towards WP (though i would really like Viber/Rebtel fully working, as I use it almost daily).

    The only thing that bothers me is the thought if MSFT would screw us again by dictating new hardware requirement for WP9 and not letting us upgrade to the new OS without upgrading to a compatible hardware. I want my phone hardware to survive for next 2-3 years at least.

    As a comparison, look at Android, almost all the 2012 android hardware released in 2012 are quad-core > 1.5ghz, LG/Motorola are already touching 2 ghz quad core or with Atom processors (rumor mill has it that Samsung Galaxy S4 would have 2Ghz quad core proc as well). With 2 gigs ram and super ghz multi cores, these hardware can take future release very easily.
    Likewise, Apple let 4 generation old hardware iPhone 3GS upgradable to latest ios releases. Till date the resale value of iphone 3gs is probably one of the best give it is such an old model.

    The best 2012 WP8 model is with 1 gig ram and 1.5 ghz dual core processor, does it not bother anyone why there is such a strict restriction for the vendors, knowing there is already better hardware available in 2012 (GS3 with quad-core released in May 2012) ? Knowing what MSFT did to WP7 users and with strict hardware requirements, I sort of want to back out.

    Thoughts?
    You're in luck then if you are looking for your target phone hardware to last 2-3 years; WP will obviously do so. WP7 has been out over 2 years and will be here for at least another year. So you are obviously wrong on MS screwing anyone on new hardware requirements within two years.

    And I guarantee you, WP8 will last for at least three years. And I predict WPX.X will be here for much longer. But the nice thing is, as you have stated you are just comparing, you don't have to back out of anything; just go to the platform that fits you the best now. After all, you'll probably be able to jump to a new OS within the next two years at a very reduced cost. that's the cellular model.

    By the way, I am a .NET developer too, but I choose WP because it was superior to iOS and Android. Why do you prefer it as a .NET developer?
  6. Flagz's Avatar
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    #6  
    Well it doesn't worry me because WP8 will support up yo 64 cores as stated above, but I'm gi e with dual & quads for now. Game near instant load on WP8. The reason we don't have 2ghz Quads is really obvious, we run just as smooth with dual core than an android runs with quad. I see no limitations as of right now.
    Gamertag: the teams Flag
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  7. Rohit Sharma1's Avatar
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       #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by thekonger View Post
    WP7 has been out over 2 years and will be here for at least another year. So you are obviously wrong on MS screwing anyone on new hardware requirements within two years.
    So you are saying those who own WP7 are not screwed? Sorry, but do you want to check your facts? Can you install WP8 on WP7 hardware? I could install ios 5 on iphone 3GS (4-5 years old phone) but not WP8 on WP7 hardware
  8. thekonger's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rohit Sharma1 View Post
    So you are saying those who own WP7 are not screwed? Sorry, but do you want to check your facts? Can you install WP8 on WP7 hardware? I could install ios 5 on iphone 3GS (4-5 years old phone) but not WP8 on WP7 hardware
    That wasn't what you originally stated. You said, and I quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rohit Sharma1 View Post
    The only thing that bothers me is the thought if MSFT would screw us again by dictating new hardware requirement for WP9 and not letting us upgrade to the new OS without upgrading to a compatible hardware. I want my phone hardware to survive for next 2-3 years at least.
    You said you wanted an OS to support hardware for 2-3 years without having to upgrade to new hardware. I pointed out WP7 does that, as it has already been out for over 2 years and will be supported for at least another year.

    Are you saying you misunderstood the facts and wish to reposition your argument?
  9. Torch4x4's Avatar
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    #9  
    I think WP8 is based on NT Kernel version 8, same as the current windows 8 and RT, so you can upgrade to the next NT kernel version, same as windows 7 pc can be upgraded to windows 8 now.

    And WP7 is based on Windows CE (PocketPC) is not the same as Windows 7 laptop or desktop versions based on NT Kernel ver. 7, thats why you cannot upgrade WP7 to WP8
  10. palandri's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rohit Sharma1 View Post
    So you are saying those who own WP7 are not screwed? Sorry, but do you want to check your facts? Can you install WP8 on WP7 hardware? I could install ios 5 on iphone 3GS (4-5 years old phone) but not WP8 on WP7 hardware
    If that's your main concern, maybe you should stick with Apple.

    I expect 18 months of support out of a new phone. I don't keep the same phone for 4 to 5 years. Mobile technology moves fast. Whatever is the latest and greatest today, won't be the latest and greatest in 6 months.

    Good luck to you.
    Check out the great deals on Windows Phone Accessories: http://store.wpcentral.com
    a5cent likes this.
  11. Rohit Sharma1's Avatar
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       #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Honestabebread View Post
    WP8 has support for up to 64 cores and is willing to accept 1080p screens in a future update. I don't think there is a RAM requirement. So no, I don't think WP8 hardware will be left behind.
    This does not make sense, why did they put strict restrictions on the hardware when the OS can support 64 cores?
  12. smoledman's Avatar
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    #12  
    WP9 will be fantastic folks. Let's all start the countdown to June.
    RyanKennedy likes this.
  13. Armada's Avatar
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    #13  
    Microsoft sets minimum standards. Not maximum. You aren't being deprived of next millenimum hardware and I don't think you should be Jonesing for it. WP8 runs spectacular on these guidelines. WP7.x ran pretty much perfect on the specs of that generation. I can tell you as an early adopter of LTE, SAMOLED, and multicore phones that bleeding edge things tend to tank battery life. Microsoft has researched the performance of this OS, and hasn't shown it will ever be slow in the future. You keep citing the 3GS being updated: I guarantee it runs like crap. With Android you can't be sure you'll even get an update. With WP you get the best of both worlds. That's why I hope to be joining the fold. Still, the OEMa need to step it up with resolution. Don't want to go back to anything lower than 720p.
  14. PG2G's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rohit Sharma1 View Post
    This does not make sense, why did they put strict restrictions on the hardware when the OS can support 64 cores?
    I think WP8 as an OS supports up to 64 cores, but there needs to support added for each of the different types of SoC. An OEM wouldn't be able to jJud grab the SoC of their choice and drop it in.

    I don't really worry about this much for the future. Microsoft can't be too behind the curve on Windows RT support for hardware and that should push Windows Phone along too.
    a5cent likes this.
  15. Taiger78's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rohit Sharma1 View Post
    So you are saying those who own WP7 are not screwed? Sorry, but do you want to check your facts? Can you install WP8 on WP7 hardware? I could install ios 5 on iphone 3GS (4-5 years old phone) but not WP8 on WP7 hardware
    Well Crapple does this a bit dirty they say that you can install IOS5, but it is not complete version in any way, for example can you use Siri with your 3GS?
    Of course MS could have gone this way also and named 7.8 WP8 and removed some functionality of WP8 would you have been happier then ??
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  16. jhguth's Avatar
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    #16  
    I don't understand why the OP doesn't just stick with Android or iOS, he pretty clearly does not like Windows Phone.

    Oh yeah, trolling, right.
  17. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #17  
    OP should hold out for an octo-core phone with an 11 inch screen and 4 terabytes of RAM. Clearly, anything less just isn't gonna cut it.
    RyanKennedy likes this.
  18. devize's Avatar
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    #18  
    I don't think you should worry about it unless you plan on using the phone for more than 2/2.5 years. I had the same thoughts when I purchased mine but figure because we are the early adopters we should get a long life out of these phones as WP9 won't be out for quite a few years and by that stage I will have already upgraded or want to upgrade. We have guaranteed updates for 18 months and I'd say beyond that as I don't see WP9/W9 coming out for atleast another 2 or 3 years.

    The early adopters of WP7 got a good 2 years worth of updates and another year to come. We'll get the same and most likely better as there's still a good chance we'll get some WP9 support because we're running the Windows NT kernel already. As for the hardware, WP8 runs just as well/better than a quad core Android device. So does the iPhone. It isn't all about the raw hardware specs. Software plays a big part. I say if you want to jump on and you want to receive support for as long as possible then there's no better time than now.
  19. #19  
    Wow, so much uninformed guesswork in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rohit Sharma1 View Post
    This does not make sense, why did they put strict restrictions on the hardware when the OS can support 64 cores?
    In order to guarantee a consistent user experience, in terms of performance and usability, across all devices. This also removes the risk of a consumer buying a WP8 device for a particular app, only to realize the device wasn't capable enough. If performance characteristics of WP8 devices differed widely, developers would certainly screw up and release apps that perform very poorly on lower spec'ed devices (or not at all). As Microsoft justifiably doesn't trust developers to get this right in the face of widely varying hardware, they released strict hardware chassis specs which very narrowly limit to what degree devices can differ from one another.

    Ultimately, the goal is to make buying a WP device easy and risk free. Consumers can make purchasing decisions based on design, color and formfactor, without having to fear making major mistakes in the nerdy tech department.

    Quote Originally Posted by pjs37 View Post
    I am sure if an OEM wanted to they could use better hardware WP8 is supposedly a lot more scalable. However we won't know for sure until WP9 but hopefully they don't do this again.
    No. Since the very first day, Microsoft has standardized the hardware platform. OEM's are not free to willy-nilly use inferior/other/superior hardware as they see fit. That WP tradition is alive and well today. Anandtech publicised Microsoft's hardware chassis spec for WP8 here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honestabebread View Post
    WP8 has support for up to 64 cores and is willing to accept 1080p screens in a future update. I don't think there is a RAM requirement. So no, I don't think WP8 hardware will be left behind.
    No.

    • The NT kernel supports up to 64 cores, but in no way does that imply WP8 will be using more than two anytime soon. As it is now, Microsoft's chassis spec forbids it. Obviously, Microsoft can define additional chassis specifications on which WP8 may also be installed. However, as I mentioned in my first reply, reasons exist not to permit hardware with such widely varying performance characteristics.
    • RAM requirements exist. OEM's can choose one of two possible configurations (again, see the chassis spec)
    • I'm also going to claim that WP8 will not support 1080p displays. Ever. Unfortunately, I have nothing in writing to back that up with. Consider however, that HTC found it necessary to publicly cancel a device due to Microsoft's unwillingness to support 1080p displays.


    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Thunder View Post
    64 bit only, is an issue. When Windows desktop goes that, I'm sure Windows Phone will do the same
    Not having a 64 bit OS is only then of concern, once WP devices ship with more than 4 GB RAM (memory, not storage obviously). That won't be happening for WP8, it is highly unlikely to happen for WP9. After that, sometime, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flagz View Post
    The reason we don't have 2ghz Quads is really obvious, we run just as smooth with dual core than an android runs with quad. I see no limitations as of right now.
    No. When it comes to computer processing power, there is no such thing as "enough". If we can get more processing power without notably reducing battery life, we need it. If it is available, developers will find a way to utilize it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torch4x4 View Post
    I think WP8 is based on NT Kernel version 8, same as the current windows 8 and RT, so you can upgrade to the next NT kernel version, same as windows 7 pc can be upgraded to windows 8 now.
    No. Just because it is technically possible, doesn't mean it is desirable. In fact, there are many software related concerns which make this undesirable. Many have argued that compatibility issues were the only reason WP8 didn't make it to WP7 era hardware. Many claim Microsoft would have done so if it were possible. This is not true. The same software related concerns exist today. Ultimately I don't know what Microsoft will do (they can always change their mind on a whim), but assuming their policies remain unchanged, WP9 also won't make it to WP8 era hardware.

    Note also, that Microsoft has not once said: "WP8 owners will all get the next major version of WP". Not once. What Microsoft does say is: "WP8 owners will get updates and modernizations for at least 18 months"... that isn't any different from what WP7 is experiencing now... However, as usual, people hear what they want to hear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Armada View Post
    Microsoft sets minimum standards. Not maximum.
    No. Microsoft also sets upper bounds.

    • the highest display resolution currently allowed on a WP8 device is WXGA.
    • the CPU must be a dual-core. Nothing less, but also nothing more.
    • the RAM specifications allows for two configurations, 512 MB and 1GB, depending on screen resolution. Nothing less, but also nothing more.
    • many more examples exist.
    Last edited by a5cent; 12-22-2012 at 03:39 AM.
    Gaichuke likes this.
  20. Toolzero's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rohit Sharma1 View Post
    Likewise, Apple let 4 generation old hardware iPhone 3GS upgradable to latest ios releases.
    Have you ever tried to use a 3GS running iOS 4 or 5? It renders the phone all but unusable. Very few apps will run on it.

    Buy a new phone when the new OS comes out if you want your phone to work well.
  21. #21  
    No one has been or will be screwed over, MS has guaranteed a minimum of 18 months worth of updates.
  22. eshy's Avatar
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    #22  
    Yes, you could install ios 5 on a 3GS, but the performance was crap and it didn't support all the features.

    Comparing Android and WP on the update issue is ridiculous. All current WP7 phones will get updates up to 7.8. All Android phones other than the Nexus that were released when most of these WP7 phones were released aren't getting updates for a while now. My Android stopped getting updates 8 months after it was released. It never got Android 4.x.

    Maybe the phones you're talking about have quad core CPUs (Android really needs that power) but that doesn't mean they'll still be getting updates a year from now.

    Microsoft promised at least 18 months of updates for WP8 devices. I assume that's counting from the phone's release date, and assuming WP9 will be released next fall, all WP8 devices will get it.

    If you're a .net dev, you should be able to understand that WP8 was a major change, the kind you don't do unless you have to and you don't do that with every major version release.

    Most WP7 users I speak to don't feel like they got screwed. A lot of them think 7.8 is good enough. Average users don't care about those things
  23. #23  
    how do you know wp9 will be released next fall? wp7 lasted two years; wouldn't the same be assumed for wp8?
  24. spaulagain's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by santillanavila1993 View Post
    how do you know wp9 will be released next fall? wp7 lasted two years; wouldn't the same be assumed for wp8?
    There is rumor that Microsoft's going "blue" means they are doing updates more frequently and possibly annually for version updates like WP9, W9.

    More of an "agile" approach.
  25. smoledman's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by spaulagain View Post
    There is rumor that Microsoft's going "blue" means they are doing updates more frequently and possibly annually for version updates like WP9, W9.

    More of an "agile" approach.
    Agile should mean more then once a year.
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