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  1. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Again, that's a very limited version. Your store card knows how much you bought at the store, and that's it.

    Google tracks everything you do, all the time.

    Google knows your sexual orientation. It knows who you're cheating on your spouse with, how much money you have in the bank, and how often you visit the liquor store. It knows how much you spent on that liquor, where you took it after the store visit, and how much of it you probably used before visiting the store again. It knows the contents of all of your Google Voice calls.

    If you're OK with Google having all that information, and are truly not concerned with anybody being able to buy that information, okay. Just be honest about it with others.
    I wouldn't be surprised if the stores sell or share information with other companies. A store would also be able to tell a lot about a person by the type of products he/she buys. Most people have cards from multiple stores too, and many people belong to Sam's Club, Costco, etc which know everything their members purchase.

    Target figured out that a 16 year-old girl was pregnant before her father knew. How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did - Forbes

    Google isn't any worse than other companies in terms of privacy.http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/ma...pagewanted=all
  2. Byzantium's Avatar
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    #77  
    You guys do realize that Microsoft gives you a lot of free services that you don't pay for (aka you are the product) and that Bing has similar privacy issues as Google, right?

    There is no privacy when you use a smartphone or cloud services in general.
  3. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    You guys do realize that Microsoft gives you a lot of free services that you don't pay for (aka you are the product) and that Bing has similar privacy issues as Google, right?

    There is no privacy when you use a smartphone or cloud services in general.
    You don't understand Microsoft's business model. What do you think you aren't paying for? You may not be paying for it directly, but the price for everything Microsoft offers it is built in somewhere. Google charges nothing for Android. Microsoft charges between $15 and $30 per WP license. You pay that license fee to Microsoft when you buy a WP device. Microsoft sells software. Always has. Google sells advertising and consumer profiles.

    Although every platform has privacy issues, the difference between Microsoft and Google couldn't be more different. Microsoft will never sell the data it collects to anyone (read their license agreements), and as a result of that they also collect much less.
  4. TonyDedrick's Avatar
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    #79  
    At this point, I don't trust any of these companies to be on the up and up on what they may or may not be doing. So really, its matter of picking your poison in who you trust your online privacy with.
  5. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    Google isn't any worse than other companies in terms of privacy.http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/ma...pagewanted=all
    I disagree. Google isn't worse in the sense that other companies also attempt to track and profile their customers to the best of their ability, but the degree to which they can do this is completely different. In that sense, nothing compares to Google. Nothing.

    That Target figured out a teen girl was pregnant before her father did doesn't surprise me in the least. That is actually quite low tech stuff compared to what is possible. I've worked on some of these systems myself. One system tracks down stolen credit cards or cell phones, simply based on behavioural patterns, such as how telephone numbers are dialled, the purchases that are made, or to whom calls are placed. Success rates were extremely high whilst spitting out zero false positives. I thought that was impressive at the time, but it's child's play compared to what Google can put together based on behavioural patterns analysis.
    brmiller1976 likes this.
  6. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    You guys do realize that Microsoft gives you a lot of free services that you don't pay for (aka you are the product) and that Bing has similar privacy issues as Google, right?

    There is no privacy when you use a smartphone or cloud services in general.
    Microsoft doesn't track activities when you're not using Bing, and Bing does not ignore the "Do Not Track" code (unlike Yahoo and Google).

    Read the user agreements for Google services and Microsoft services sometime. For the former, your eyes will be the size of soccer balls when you're finished.
  7. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyDedrick View Post
    At this point, I don't trust any of these companies to be on the up and up on what they may or may not be doing. So really, its matter of picking your poison in who you trust your online privacy with.
    Yes, trusting any company completely is a mistake. After all, they all want money. Yet it isn't just a subjective matter of choosing which company you like more. It is a fact that Microsoft and Google earn their money in completely different ways. If you take the time to read the legal mumbo jumbo it is plain as day that the consumer is Microsoft's customer or Google's product. Microsoft's licenses bestow rights, including rights to privacy, while using Google's services implies that you sacrifice those exact same rights.

    Of course 99% of consumers couldn't be bothered looking at the licensing agreements or even thinking about them. Consumers can stick their heads as deep into the sand as they wish, the differences won't go away.
    Last edited by a5cent; 12-16-2012 at 01:05 AM. Reason: Spelling
  8. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #83  
    Yep. Few people read license agreements.

    I make a habit of doing it, both personally and professionally, and you'd be amazed at some of the terms that most people just click through, without reading.
    a5cent likes this.
  9. jdhooghe's Avatar
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    #84  
    (South Park episode reference here)
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  10. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #85  
    You thought the Human CentiPad was bad? Wait until you see the Human Surface!

    PS, looks like Gmail is falling apart already, now that proper sync services are gone:

    Gmail wobbles again on Friday, fourth incident since late last week - Computerworld
  11. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    You thought the Human CentiPad was bad? Wait until you see the Human Surface!

    PS, looks like Gmail is falling apart already, now that proper sync services are gone:

    Gmail wobbles again on Friday, fourth incident since late last week - Computerworld
    I wonder if Google is experiencing DDoS attacks. It would not surprise me. Microsoft has been attacked by DDoS in the past too.
  12. JamesTBurns's Avatar
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    #87  
    Only thing stopping me from doing this is a decent Outlook iOS app for my iPad mini.
  13. Byzantium's Avatar
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    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Microsoft doesn't track activities when you're not using Bing, and Bing does not ignore the "Do Not Track" code (unlike Yahoo and Google).

    Read the user agreements for Google services and Microsoft services sometime. For the former, your eyes will be the size of soccer balls when you're finished.
    Well yeah because Google makes its money off datamining and Microsoft makes its money off actually selling software, hardware, etc. However, don't think for a second that you are completely free from privacy worries with Microsoft.
  14. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesTBurns View Post
    Only thing stopping me from doing this is a decent Outlook iOS app for my iPad mini.
    Isn't Safari good enough to display www.outlook.com or has iOS crippled users in thinking that if there isn't an app for it, it doesn't exist?
  15. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    Well yeah because Google makes its money off datamining and Microsoft makes its money off actually selling software, hardware, etc. However, don't think for a second that you are completely free from privacy worries with Microsoft.
    You are contradicting your own statement.

    Google collects data. Microsoft collects data.
    Google sells data for ads. Microsoft uses data for it's own services.
    Google won't make money without your data. Microsoft will make money by selling you something else, not selling your data.

    Why would I be concerned about my privacy with Microsoft as much as I'm with Google?

    At the end of the day, one company survives on selling your data to advertisers and the other company survives on selling you software and hardware. - it's that simple.
  16. Dave Blake's Avatar
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    #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    Well yeah because Google makes its money off datamining and Microsoft makes its money off actually selling software, hardware, etc. However, don't think for a second that you are completely free from privacy worries with Microsoft.
    Microsoft will give you the option to decline before collection your data. If you want to help Microsoft improve their systems by adding your on line activity Microsoft will collect data from you but you can say no. Google doesn't give you a choice.
  17. Byzantium's Avatar
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    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by rockstarzzz View Post
    You are contradicting your own statement.

    Google collects data. Microsoft collects data.
    Google sells data for ads. Microsoft uses data for it's own services.
    Google won't make money without your data. Microsoft will make money by selling you something else, not selling your data.

    Why would I be concerned about my privacy with Microsoft as much as I'm with Google?

    At the end of the day, one company survives on selling your data to advertisers and the other company survives on selling you software and hardware. - it's that simple.
    I'm not saying you should be concerning with your privacy using Microsoft as you are using Google. They aren't even close to the same league. I'm saying that Microsoft still collects data from web services and they will eventually be monetized because anybody with a web browser can use them for free, just like with Google, regardless of what you buy or don't buy from Microsoft.

    Do you really think that Microsoft will continue giving out web services like Skydrive, Calendar, Bing, Bing maps, Outlook mail, to anybody with any web browser until the end of time without doing something to keep the whole operation financially stable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Blake View Post
    Microsoft will give you the option to decline before collection your data. If you want to help Microsoft improve their systems by adding your on line activity Microsoft will collect data from you but you can say no. Google doesn't give you a choice.
    A fair point.
    Last edited by Byzantium; 12-16-2012 at 07:46 AM.
  18. Dave Blake's Avatar
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    #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    I'm not saying you should be concerning with your privacy using Microsoft as you are using Google. They aren't even close to the same league. I'm saying that Microsoft still collects data from web services and they will eventually be monetized because anybody with a web browser can use them for free, just like with Google, regardless of what you buy or don't buy from Microsoft.

    Do you really think that Microsoft will continue giving out web services like Skydrive, Calendar, Bing, Bing maps, Outlook mail, to anybody with any web browser until the end of time without doing something to keep the whole operation financially stable?


    A fair point.
    That's Green Eggs and Ham right? A buddy of mine says "Who did what to whom for how many Mosquito Eggs"

    Lets stick to reality not speculation. To your point do you really think the majority of people will be happy with 7 gbs on Skydrive? No people will purchase more and guess what they can. You think Microsoft entered this game without a plan to make money? Seriously?! Bing, Bing Maps, Outlook all have advertising on the page. If you want like I did you can pay $20/year to opt out of advertising in Outlook. Rest assured Microsoft has ways of making money without selling your information in place now. Again they already collect data on some of these but if you like you can opt out.
  19. TonyDedrick's Avatar
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    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    Yes, trusting any company completely is a mistake. After all, they all want money. Yet it isn't just a subjective matter of choosing which company you like more. It is a fact that Microsoft and Google earn their money in completely different ways. If you take the time to read the legal mumbo jumbo it is plain as day that the consumer is Microsoft's customer or Google's product. Microsoft's licenses bestow rights, including rights to privacy, while using Google's services implies that you sacrifice those exact same rights.

    Of course 99% of consumers couldn't be bothered looking at the licensing agreements or even thinking about them. Consumers can stick their heads as deep into the sand as they wish, the differences won't go away.
    Again, we don't know what a company is or isn't doing behind closed doors. Many have had "terms of condition" that sound favorable to the consumer and they still found ways to bamboozle you in the end. Not trying to make Microsoft out to be evil. I just keep in mind that it and any other company will ultimately be looking out for numero uno in the end.....
  20. Byzantium's Avatar
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    #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Blake View Post
    That's Green Eggs and Ham right? A buddy of mine says "Who did what to whom for how many Mosquito Eggs"

    Lets stick to reality not speculation. To your point do you really think the majority of people will be happy with 7 gbs on Skydrive? No people will purchase more and guess what they can. You think Microsoft entered this game without a plan to make money? Seriously?! Bing, Bing Maps, Outlook all have advertising on the page. If you want like I did you can pay $20/year to opt out of advertising in Outlook. Rest assured Microsoft has ways of making money without selling your information in place now. Again they already collect data on some of these but if you like you can opt out.
    Yes, the vast majority of people will be happy with 7 GB on Skydrive. Yes the majority of people will want to use Outlook Email for free. The vast majority of people out there will not pay for something when they can get something similar or nearly as functional for free.

    This isn't like Apple's system where you can only use their services like iCloud if you buy a relatively pricey Apple product. Microsoft is closer to the Google model of doing things, and as the userbase grows, so will the need for monetize the platform. Microsoft's model won't get as bad as Google's model, but it will very likely end up doing some of the same things that Google does, like collecting what kind of files and filenames you upload to the cloud.
  21. Dave Blake's Avatar
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    #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    Yes, the vast majority of people will be happy with 7 GB on Skydrive. Yes the majority of people will want to use Outlook Email for free. The vast majority of people out there will not pay for something when they can get something similar or nearly as functional for free.

    This isn't like Apple's system where you can only use their services like iCloud if you buy a relatively pricey Apple product. Microsoft is closer to the Google model of doing things, and as the userbase grows, so will the need for monetize the platform. Microsoft's model won't get as bad as Google's model, but it will very likely end up doing some of the same things that Google does, like collecting what kind of files and filenames you upload to the cloud.
    Pure speculation this has no basis in fact. In fact history of Microsoft show an exact opposite course history.
  22. Byzantium's Avatar
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    #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Blake View Post
    Pure speculation this has no basis in fact. In fact history of Microsoft show an exact opposite course history.
    The history of Microsoft never had cloud services accessible without first buying a Microsoft product. This is fairly recent.
  23. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    Yes, the vast majority of people will be happy with 7 GB on Skydrive. Yes the majority of people will want to use Outlook Email for free. The vast majority of people out there will not pay for something when they can get something similar or nearly as functional for free.

    This isn't like Apple's system where you can only use their services like iCloud if you buy a relatively pricey Apple product. Microsoft is closer to the Google model of doing things, and as the userbase grows, so will the need for monetize the platform. Microsoft's model won't get as bad as Google's model, but it will very likely end up doing some of the same things that Google does, like collecting what kind of files and filenames you upload to the cloud.
    In future Microsoft will even make my underwears by reading what colours I talk about in my emails the most. But, so will any company.

    The point being, Microsoft is a software giant, not an advertising giant. It wouldn't need to do that as long as it can make Windows and as long as it can make Xbox. The cloud, enterprise and PCs make so much money for Microsoft that advertising doesn't even matter. Look at Bing, how many years has that struggled? What has Microsoft done to make it a hit so far, nothing. It can make same revenue if it is used as much as Google. But Bing is there only to make sure Google doesn't eat it all.
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    #99  
    I have just done the same thing and the best thing of all is to give Google feedback via their feedback forms as to why I did what I did. ;)
  25. Dave Blake's Avatar
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    #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    The history of Microsoft never had cloud services accessible without first buying a Microsoft product. This is fairly recent.
    Spoken like a true Google fanboy.

    Back on topic... Google is truly trying to change the OS wars by limiting services available to WP. This can be good or bad depending on your preferences. Google fanboys wont like it when trying to adapt to WP life. For those who use Microsoft services this wont matter. When I started using Google Android devices I moved from WinMo I really hated the stranglehold Google had on the OS. You will use Gmail you will like it and that's that. Why shouldn't it be the same way on WP? I guess all the OS's are doing everything possible to make it hard to change platforms. Its the ecosystem wars I think Google is stepping up its game to try to stop the bleeding.

    I have a Gmail account I use it for Spam and Youtube and that's it. If Microsoft would make a real competitor to Youtube I would gladly delete my Gmail account.
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