View Poll Results: Does it disappoint you that Windows Phone doesn't have all the legacy Microsoft smartphone features

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  • Yes

    19 37.25%
  • No

    32 62.75%
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  1. SinisterDuck's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    It is crippled in a lot of ways compared to phones that Microsoft itself offered 7 to 10 years ago throughout the life of Windows Mobile 2003 to Windows Mobile 6.1

    Do you not see anything wrong with that? Why are you ok with the gimping of functionality when the software maker is by no means a stranger to the smartphone market and is losing the competition against absolute newcomers?
    You seriously think a buyer is going to skip WP because they can't attach a PDF? Then they'd skip Apple too. Blah.
  2. #27  
    What specifically are we missing from Windows Mobile?
    George Ponder
    Reviews Editor - Windows Phone Central
    Email: george.ponder@wpcentral.com
    Twitter: @coppertop004

  3. Byzantium's Avatar
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       #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterDuck View Post
    You seriously think a buyer is going to skip WP because they can't attach a PDF? Then they'd skip Apple too. Blah.
    And mosey on over to Android.

    This is an opportunity that Windows Phone has in the bag and Microsoft is dropping the ball in a lot of ways that should have been rectified with WP8 from the onset.
    Last edited by Byzantium; 12-07-2012 at 08:33 PM.
  4. iamtim's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    Tim, you make a lot of assumptions when you debate. Stop that. It's quite silly.
    I'm just replying in kind. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    What I want is for Microsoft to make a serious effort at giving their Windows Phone userbase the features that they had in their earlier iterations of a mobile OS.
    What you want is for Microsoft to put out the OS that YOU want for YOU. You're totally disregarding the people who are happy with Windows Phone 8 and the new direction Microsoft is taking to NOT be just another smartphone, to NOT be just another rehash of all the things they've put in smartphones for years that didn't work for them.

    If that's what you want, fine, but don't begrudge those who don't want it, or are willing to try Microsoft's new mobile phone paradigm... because it just might turn out to be better than what they did before. Remember, as you said yourself, they have 12 years of mobile phone experience. Is it possible that they learned from their mistakes and are trying something new to correct them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    What smartphones have you owned in the past?
    From first smartphone to most recent: BlackBerry 7105, BlackBerry 8700, Verizon VX6900 (rebranded HTC Touch), iPhone 2, T-Mobile G3 (rebranded HTC something, the first "real" Android phone), iPhone 3G, Samsung Captivate, BlackBerry 8810, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, Nokia Lumia 920 (only for a week), HTC 8X (only for a week), and Nokia Lumia 820.
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    eric12341 likes this.
  5. WPmunkey's Avatar
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    #30  
    I think the real issue here is user error
  6. SinisterDuck's Avatar
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    #31  
    Maybe 50 of them would mosey. Tops. I'm sure MS is shaking in their boots.

    And maybe MS didn't want that bag. That's why there's choice. If those 4 things it doesn't have are so important, move along.

    It's kind of sad to whine about what we don't have and discount all we do.
  7. Byzantium's Avatar
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       #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by George Ponder View Post
    What specifically are we missing from Windows Mobile?
    Ringer profiles, custom notification sounds, bluetooth file transfer, mass storage mode, file manager, no ability to create and save playlists, no way to block calls, no native sending of contacts, and a bunch of other things that even dumbphones can do but Windows Phone does not.

    Microsoft took Windows Mobile and basically made their version of the iPhone. What they should have done is taken all of iPhone's strengths and none of its weaknesses in order to fend off BOTH iPhone and Android in the smartphone market.
    willied likes this.
  8. Byzantium's Avatar
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       #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by iamtim View Post
    I'm just replying in kind. :)
    I've made no assumptions.

    What you want is for Microsoft to put out the OS that YOU want for YOU. You're totally disregarding the people who are happy with Windows Phone 8 and the new direction Microsoft is taking to NOT be just another smartphone, to NOT be just another rehash of all the things they've put in smartphones for years that didn't work for them.
    A Windows Phone that has all of the legacy features that Windows Mobile had and updated them to work intuitively with the Metro UI would have worked for everybody. Nobody would feel left out unless they didn't care for the UI. However, on this very forum, you'll see a lot of threads where people get upset at Windows Phone's shortcomings. Why? Because Microsoft is staying too close to the Apple way of doing things rather than keeping some of the old Windows Mobile way of doing things.

    The only reason Microsoft failed in the past was because their phones were too expensive, bulky, ugly, and too limited and detached in how you interacted with their devices. Apple solved that problem for them with the touch capacitive glass-covered UI. Instead of just taking that UI paradigm alone and making their version of it with the extra freedom and functionality of their tried and true Windows Mobile devices, they played it safe by copying pretty much everything Apple is doing with their platform....back in 2007

    From first smartphone to most recent: BlackBerry 7105, BlackBerry 8700, Verizon VX6900 (rebranded HTC Touch), iPhone 2, T-Mobile G3 (rebranded HTC something, the first "real" Android phone), iPhone 3G, Samsung Captivate, BlackBerry 8810, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, Nokia Lumia 920 (only for a week), HTC 8X (only for a week), and Nokia Lumia 820.
    Those old Blackberries did a lot of things that your Windows Phone can't and you don't feel limited in any way? Really? I came from a Blackberry and I wasn't content with any smartphone other than BB until I finally got Android 4.0
  9. Long Syntax's Avatar
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    #34  
    The loss of some legacy features is for the same reason we don't need local sync for outlook. For others its because MS spent the time unifying their core products around the same win 8 kernel in hopes of leveraging their huge windows user base. Admittedly this was at the expense of getting all the features they wanted in the final build - things like a central notification center. Only time will tell if this strategy pays off.
  10. SinisterDuck's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    . . . I came from a Blackberry and I wasn't content with any smartphone other than BB until I finally got Android 4.0
    Then why are you here?
  11. Byzantium's Avatar
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       #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterDuck View Post
    Then why are you here?
    I am platform agnostic. I would jump ship to any platform that does the most for me. Also, the Mobile Nations passport made it easy for me to come here and criticize all 3 major platforms. Android however, does get these least criticism from me. I would like Windows Phone to be a good middle between Android and iPhone, but its skewing too far to iPhone-status circa 2008 for me to make it my daily driver.
  12. iamtim's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    rather than keeping some of the old Windows Mobile way of doing things
    Have you looked at the results of your very own poll so far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    Those old Blackberries did a lot of things that your Windows Phone can't and you don't feel limited in any way?
    I have a soft spot for the 8700 form factor but other than that, IMHO, the BB OS has always sucked... it's only strength was the push email, but having to run a separate server for it (whether a full BES server or the BIS service) was balls and created an additional point of failure in the system. With EAS, there is nothing any of the BBs I had did that ANY other phone I had didn't do better and easier. So, to answer your question, no.
  13. SinisterDuck's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    Ringer profiles, custom notification sounds, bluetooth file transfer, mass storage mode, file manager, no ability to create and save playlists, no way to block calls, no native sending of contacts, and a bunch of other things that even dumbphones can do but Windows Phone does not.
    You should illuminate us on what the "bunch" is. Being vague is not helpful, but since you admittedly only like to criticize, I'm not expecting much.

    You can also scratch off "no native sending of contacts" as that's in WP8.
  14. jdevenberg's Avatar
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    #39  
    To put it as simply as I can, all those features make for a complicated, unintuitive phone experience. It takes a lot of work to get a lot of those features right, and doing them poorly will make your product a failure.

    That is why Windows Mobile failed. By all accounts, it was a much more capable OS than iPhone OS was in 2007/2008, but because it was complicated and difficult to use, it failed. Microsoft decided to start with less features and do them exceptionally well, then add features over time, and also do them exceptionally well, when it started its new OS. Since they realized that the consumer market was where the money was, especially with more companies going BYOD, so they went with features that were more important to consumers. Your average consumer thinks Facebook integration is cool and doesn't care if they can attach a PDF to an email. They care more about a good browser than separate volume controls (I would like those for the record)

    I really can't think of a ton of features that Windows Mobile had that Windows Phone lacks. More file types for email attachments, separate volume controls, and what else? They both have customizable home screens that provide a variety of info at a glance. Both have multi-tasking (different approaches, but both have it). Both have touch screens. Most users don't need different ringer profiles, most are fine putting it on vibrate when they don't want sound and don't need different ring tones at work than they do in private. File managers and making playlists are tedious to use on phones and most people do not use them when they are present. Almost every feature you listed is a niche feature that most people do not use. Microsoft wanted to make an OS that would be great for the majority of people out of the box, not an OS that could be everything to everyone. If you need that level of personalization on a phone, get and stick with Android. It is much closer to WM than WP is. I disliked WM and I dislike using Android. Believe it or not, a lot of people want a phone to be SIMPLE, not complicated. The only reason Android is number one is it undercuts iOS on price and beat Windows Phone to market. If Android and Windows Phone had come to market the same day, Windows Phone would have slaughtered Android because it offer an experience that, for your general consumer, is vastly superior.
    Last edited by jdevenberg; 12-07-2012 at 10:41 PM.
    john_v, eric12341, stmav and 1 others like this.
  15. thekonger's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    In case you guys weren't aware, Microsoft has been making smartphones since the year 2000, 7 years before the iPhone came out. It had TONS of features to compete with the featureset of Symbian, Blackberry, and Palm Treo.

    I can see why Google and Apple don't have all the features of those smartphones since they entered the smartphone market late, but why is Microsoft not putting the 12 years of features they've had in all those mobile platforms into Windows Phone? Where's the separate volumes? Where's the notification center? Where's the advanced email functionality? Why can't I directly attach a PDF to an email in WP8?

    Is anybody out there old enough to remember that Microsoft was rolling out stylus-based smartphones WAYYYYY before the iPhone? Why are all those features suddenly gone? Why has Windows Phone been out for 2 years already and Microsoft still hasn't put those 12 years of legacy smartphone features into Windows Phone? Don't you guys think that Windows Phone could take off so much faster if Microsoft took advantage of those 12 years of features and rolled out the most feature packed smartphone on the market, making both iPhone and Android look like toys in comparison?

    Where's all of this?

    Attachment 24375

    Seriously, guys, why are we suddenly ok with a company who has made advanced smartphones for 12 years suddenly roll out a smartphone with very few legacy smartphone features the same way Apple did with the iPhone?
    Because WP8 leap-frogged Android and iOS.
  16. thekonger's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    I've made no assumptions.


    A Windows Phone that has all of the legacy features that Windows Mobile had and updated them to work intuitively with the Metro UI would have worked for everybody. Nobody would feel left out unless they didn't care for the UI. However, on this very forum, you'll see a lot of threads where people get upset at Windows Phone's shortcomings. Why? Because Microsoft is staying too close to the Apple way of doing things rather than keeping some of the old Windows Mobile way of doing things.

    The only reason Microsoft failed in the past was because their phones were too expensive, bulky, ugly, and too limited and detached in how you interacted with their devices. Apple solved that problem for them with the touch capacitive glass-covered UI. Instead of just taking that UI paradigm alone and making their version of it with the extra freedom and functionality of their tried and true Windows Mobile devices, they played it safe by copying pretty much everything Apple is doing with their platform....back in 2007


    Those old Blackberries did a lot of things that your Windows Phone can't and you don't feel limited in any way? Really? I came from a Blackberry and I wasn't content with any smartphone other than BB until I finally got Android 4.0
    Ultimately at this time WP8 does a lot more for me than iOS and Android. I can't speak to BlackBerry as I have never owned one and never will. It's a dinosaur and no matter what anyone tells you, it is dead. Sell all your BB stock. Okay, don't do that. But I would.

    There are many aspects to a good smartphone, including: the OS, the UI, the apps, how it integrates, and the phone itself. BB doesn't really do well on any front. MS rules the business ecosystem and it has a ton of great apps now. It integrates contacts and social data well and is a pretty darn good phone from what I have experienced.

    Does it lose a lot of the legacy functionality from previous WP OS's? Yes, every system that uses a new architecture does. Assuming a new system will automatically support all the functionality of a previous system is a bit naive. I still can't run Mac 9.X software on my OSX iMac.
  17. #42  
    I could see the appeal of some of these features. Personally don't really care for file manager or bluetooth file transfer.... wait... my 920 has a bluetooth share mode for pics and documents.

    And what mass storage do you need? You can connect your Windows Phone 8 device to your computer and view all the storage files (documents, pictures, videos, etc) from Windows File Explorer. You can even create new folders.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a block call feature and custom notifications but won't loose sleep over those features.

    Microsoft didn't take Windows Mobile anywhere. They started from scratch and opted not to simply upgrade Windows Mobile as they've done for years. It's an operating system that is still developing and you don't know if some of these features will crop up in future updates. It sounds like some of the features you are missing are already there though...
    George Ponder
    Reviews Editor - Windows Phone Central
    Email: george.ponder@wpcentral.com
    Twitter: @coppertop004

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  18. Wael Hasno's Avatar
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    #43  
    Byzantium, I haven't read all your posts but I read enough.. You just keep mentioning the same stuff in different words but you also keep mentioning "12 years", "features", "legacy".. Mate, that was then.. I own a Samsung Omnia for almost 4 years now (Windows Mobile 6.1) and believe me, there's not a single feature I'm using on it, in fact, I even charge it once per week or 2 because I barely use it. The only reason I haven't switched is because I can't afford a Windows Phone yet. Sure, my Omnia was a great deal when it came out and most of all, it was relevant but right now, I don't see how some of its features can pass on to a Windows Phone. The market has changed a lot and so has the public.. I mean, seriously when you saw someone with a Windows Mobile, you'd think he's some kind of rich and successful businessman or a real tech pro.. Now even the average kid has access to a smartphone so whether we like it or not, we have to adjust ourselves to that and get used to it.

    Windows Phones are awesome already, there's always room for some more tweaking but let's take it one step at a time. I just don't see how your arguments present a real issue in the near future.
  19. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    Ringer profiles, custom notification sounds, bluetooth file transfer, mass storage mode, file manager, no ability to create and save playlists, no way to block calls, no native sending of contacts, and a bunch of other things that even dumbphones can do but Windows Phone does not.

    Microsoft took Windows Mobile and basically made their version of the iPhone. What they should have done is taken all of iPhone's strengths and none of its weaknesses in order to fend off BOTH iPhone and Android in the smartphone market.
    There's NFC file transfer (something iPhone can't do), MTP which is like USB mass storage,you can create playlists and block calls in later builds and you can send contacts, almost all of your points either don't matter or are false. I also would like to know what these bunch of other things are.
  20. steeleblue's Avatar
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    #45  
    I had my first WinMo phone in 2003. I too miss some of the old functionality. File manager the most. But I understand what MS did. If you start from scratch the first thing you do is list everything you want and then proceed to start scaling down. If you try to put it all in at the first implementation, you never get there. I know, I've been in those meetings.

    MS did a pretty good job of including basic functionality and ensuring that it runs well. As time goes by I'm sure they will add more. I do however think not including a way to get immediately to the dialer is a miss. One shouldn't need a third-party app to do a basic phone function.

    As for my fav, the file manager, I'm doubting I'll ever see it. But maybe access to just one user directory where I can actually organize my files will come eventually. I'm pretty happy with the OS now. It will only get better.

    Oh, and to the poster who said WinMo was a failure, it wasn't, it lasted longer than any other OS. It was only complicated if you made it complicated. Anyone who used a Windowns PC could find their way around. But it was a bit sluggish by today's standards. Of course, the tech is light years ahead now too. I still have a couple laying around and actually had to use one this summer while waiting for these phones to come out. That old phone is about 6 years old but ran like a champ once charged.
  21. casab1anca's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantium View Post
    Ringer profiles, custom notification sounds, bluetooth file transfer, mass storage mode, file manager, no ability to create and save playlists, no way to block calls, no native sending of contacts, and a bunch of other things that even dumbphones can do but Windows Phone does not.
    Agreed that custom notification sounds and volume controls would be useful, and I'm hoping these will be added in a future update. But you seem to forget that WP already does a lot of things out of the box that other smartphones can't -- linked contacts, social integration and live tiles to name a few. WP8 already supports Bluetooth file transfer and contact sharing through NFC, and call blocking is rumoured to be in the upcoming update.
  22. Sheikmans's Avatar
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    #47  
    I have the exact same question. I was a happy wm user, and I don't understand why MS seems to not use their WM knowledge while building this new platform...
    Sent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Board Express
  23. spaulagain's Avatar
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    #48  
    The OP and the WM users in this thread obviously don't know the level of time and the process development takes for an OS like Windows Phone.

    Like its been said a million times, Windows Phone is not an evolution of Windows Mobile. It is a completely new OS from the ground up. That means EVERYTHING had to be rebuilt and all the "features" of Windows Mobile simply don't exist and are not portable to the completely new OS.

    Building an OS takes time with marketing and business side making key feature decisions, the design team spending months creating and refining ideas, programmers building, then testing, working with partners like Nokia and ATT. This all consumes a lot of time and as a result priorities have to be made and not every desired feature makes the cut. Even if it was an existing feature in the pervious OS.

    In the case of Windows Phone, Microsoft had to first focus on the UI design language, usability, etc. As that is ultimately what Windows Mobile failed at, and what Apple was doing well at. Then they had to focus on big key features like Social Network integration, Xbox, camera, etc. As those features are what would drive the consumer to Windows Phone. Little tiny features like PDF attachment, volume bar, are at the bottom of their list. And that list is carefully prioritized by the company based on user share of interest, time required for developing, marketability, etc.

    Also, those kind of things are easier to roll out in small updates later rather than the big features that need to go out on big releases like WP8.

    You are demanding that after the house burned down, and the foundation reduced to rubble, that Microsoft completely rebuild the house and keep all the original interior decorating and furniture. They built an all new foundation, gave it better look, added new key features, and made it more efficient. But you're complaining because they didn't add the nickel plated handle to the toilet (Which btw has to be re-plated because its tarnished from the fire).
    iamtim likes this.
  24. SinisterDuck's Avatar
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    #49  
    I did a little research, and it turns out MS added functionality in WP to share PDFs via SkyDrive, which makes sense considering some phone models only have 8 GB of storage. It also conserves using data to upload files. And this is the way the industry is turning via Google Drive, iCloud, Dropbox, SkyDrive, etc. So it's not so much that MS removed that function, but shifted it.

    So for the few features WM had that WP doesn't, there's another to scratch off the list.
  25. SinisterDuck's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by spaulagain View Post
    . . . Also, those kind of things are easier to roll out in small updates later rather than the big features that need to go out on big releases like WP8.
    Spaulagain, that's some nice insider insight into the considerations of building an OS, and makes a lot of sense.
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