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  1.    #51  
    I sure see that revolt among IOS developers
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  2. Etyrnus's Avatar
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    #52  
    That horse isn't just dead, you've dragged it until the legs were worn to nubs. Your failure to grasp a simple metaphorical comparison astounds me, as you seem like an intelligent person, you've expressed your view in a civilized manner. It just boggles me that the concept doesn't come across to you.
    Arguing with an ***** is like playing chess with a pigeon.
    You could be the greatest player in the world, but the pigeon will still knock over all the pieces, s--t on the board and strut around triumphantly-Tomtom6 on NcSportbikes.com
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    #53  
    I'm enjoying this. This is great. We give our opinions/points and live another day. WP strong! :-D
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    #54  
    Man this was an amazing read. I'm pretty sure the simple answer is no. Without making a master login , for both phones, you can't. However I have been against doing that for a long time. Especially how hard it is to manage your accounts across multiple windows devices. PC, tablet, and phone. I would imagine doing that would actually break functionality of "rooms" on wp8. Since its driven by the primary account on the phone.

    What your asking whatever they want to call it doesn't look like it will ever be possible on windows phone. What's also bugs is we don't even have a way to gift an app. I do enjoy that right now on my iPad. With multiple users on one device I get to see the benefits of what your asking for. I just don't see it the new ms framework. **** even on my desktop my fiance and I have to figure out a way to share purchased apps. If you end up not staying with windows phone then so be it. You are voting with your wallet and more should be done FASTER to keep you here.
  5. Etyrnus's Avatar
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    #55  
    You mistake my confusion as an insult. Some of us have tried various ways to express both the policies and viewpoint of this OS vs your previous, and yet you dismiss any viewpoint different from yours as invalid. You want apps to basically be shareware, when this OS is set up with them as what they are, a product.
    Arguing with an ***** is like playing chess with a pigeon.
    You could be the greatest player in the world, but the pigeon will still knock over all the pieces, s--t on the board and strut around triumphantly-Tomtom6 on NcSportbikes.com
  6. msdugn's Avatar
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    #56  
    What a sad, sad thread.

    A user asked a simple question and it devolved into this. For the good of the Windows Phone community and this forum, please don't ever make this thread and the antics of Hopmedic a sticky.

    In short, no - you can't share accounts between Windows Phone devices in the way that's similar to iOS.

    JJMurphy and RdubMu were super-helpful in describing that the iOS model (multiple devices - whether they be the same or different - iPads, iPhones, etc.) can share the same account. That means that all 4 iPads in my house can share the same games/apps I purchase via my single account. Right or wrong, that's the model.

    The Microsoft model is different. You can still share the account across 5 devices, but these are expected to be distinct devices of different sorts. Like a Windows 8 PC/Tablet, perhaps another Windows RT device and a Windows Phone - not multiple Windows Phones.

    While the iOS and Microsoft app models are different, I'm not sure any of this rises to the level of illegal behavior and stealing. If you use Windows 8/RT/Windows Phone devices, you can see the level of personalization built into the newer devices and platform that renders the iOS notion of sharing (apps, settings, etc.) somewhat outdated. When you buy a Windows Phone, you really do personalize it. And that's not just the Live Tile aspects of personalizing, but rather the idea that the Microsoft-based device becomes a personalized hub of information, games, apps, settings, IE favorites, SkyDrive shared pictures that's different from the iOS model.

    Please leave words like 'pirating', 'stealing', 'case law' and all other nonsenseical, overly dramatic commentary for Reddit and MySpace.

    If you ever make a (new) thread answering this good, valuable and repeated question regarding 'app sharing' a sticky, please just do the community a favor and answer the question in a way that stirs positive emotions and the desire to apprecaite and return to this community and forum. Anything else is just counterproductive to the site and the platform.
    Last edited by msdugn; 12-01-2012 at 09:31 PM.
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  7. kwajr's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by hopmedic View Post
    Basically what you're talking about is stealing. Let's just call it what it is. It is software piracy. There is no need to call it app sharing, account sharing, or anything else to make it sound OK.

    But since you don't seem to grasp the seriousness of the crime that you are talking about committing, let me spell out the penalties for you:

    In the United States, the maximum civil penalty is $150,000 per infringement in a lawsuit for a copyright violation. This means that for every single program or work that was illegally copied and/or distributed, the infringer could have to pay $150,000. As you can imagine, a civil suit may cost a violator millions of dollars.

    Read more: Legal Penalties for Software Piracy | eHow.com Legal Penalties for Software Piracy | eHow.com

    On the other hand, piracy of software can be seen as a criminal act akin to stealing. In this case, the infringer can be charged with a criminal offense. In the United States, the maximum criminal penalty for copyright infringement is a fine of up to $250,000 and a jail sentence of up to five years. This involves damages that are both monetary and psychological. A prison record can seriously mar the life of any individual.

    Read more: Legal Penalties for Software Piracy | eHow.com Legal Penalties for Software Piracy | eHow.com

    By the way, the reason my name is a different color is because I am a developer with published apps in the Windows Phone Store.
    care to tell us the apps you made so we don't have to buy them are support you
  8. PG2G's Avatar
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    #58  
    It is worth noting, especially for those giving the OP a difficult time, that the Windows Store (not to be confused with the Windows Phone store) allows users to install apps on up to 5 devices AND you don't have to use the same login. The store app in Windows 8 has its own account setting. Presumably this is because you don't have to login to Windows 8 with a Microsoft account and PCs are typically multi user devices. Either way, there is some precedent for the OPs question and it isn't entirely out of the question.
  9. tgp
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    #59  
    So, if my wife & I were to get Windows phones, would we legally have to get separate Live IDs? We use one email account & one Facebook account. Our Android phones are both logged in to our shared Google account. Any paid apps are available on both phones, as well as our Android tablet. What I'm understanding is that if we would have Windows phones, it would be against Microsoft's ToS to use the same Live ID (we only have one), at least if apps were purchased. Correct?
  10. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by msdugn View Post
    What a sad, sad thread.

    A user asked a simple question and it devolved into this. For the good of the Windows Phone community and this forum, please don't ever make this thread and the antics of Hopmedic a sticky.

    In short, no - you can't share accounts between Windows Phone devices in the way that's similar to iOS.
    It is a very sad thread indeed. It's been a long time since I've seen someone so proud of a stance that was not only immoral, but criminal, even after it was pointed out to him. I also love the way you agree with me after insulting me. That's lovely.

    tlgraber, I don't know what Google's TOS are - I took a quick look, and didn't find anything in their TOS that prohibits allowing someone to access your account (that doesn't mean it's not there - it means I didn't see it). But Microsoft prohibits it. So you would have to have separate Live IDs if you want to be within the TOS, and to purchase apps and be legal. You CAN use gmail in a Windows Phone, if that's what you still want to use for your email, though. I use gmail as my primary email.
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  11. ironsoulreaver's Avatar
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    #61  
    Geeze... I wasn't trying to get all crazy up in here. I was just saying.

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  12.    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by PG2G View Post
    It is worth noting, especially for those giving the OP a difficult time, that the Windows Store (not to be confused with the Windows Phone store) allows users to install apps on up to 5 devices AND you don't have to use the same login. The store app in Windows 8 has its own account setting. Presumably this is because you don't have to login to Windows 8 with a Microsoft account and PCs are typically multi user devices. Either way, there is some precedent for the OPs question and it isn't entirely out of the question.
    I don't think it is out of the question either. Windows 8, IOS do let you share apps. I honestly do not know how android works with apps and the google play TOS.

    Hopefully microsoft can do something about this. The developers who don't want to just then have their apps revoked.
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    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by rdubmu View Post
    I don't think it is out of the question either. Windows 8, IOS do let you share apps. I honestly do not know how android works with apps and the google play TOS.

    Hopefully microsoft can do something about this. The developers who don't want to just then have their apps revoked.
    Microsoft won't "do something about this" -- it's not in their best interest. They get a cut of the apps sold. They also won't want developers "revoking" apps. They have enough trouble getting them on board in the first place.

    There's complaints of not enough quality apps on WP, and folks who prefer not to purchase the ones that do exist don't exactly inspire developers to get on the bandwagon. And folks who want a backdoor to not legitimately pay for the apps they want will, in the end, only make things worse.
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    #64  
    Just to add something else to the mix. On Sony's PlayStation it is possible to buy a full copy of a digital game and then download it to two consoles in the same home using the same account.

    Thats not theft. Thats the model Sony have allowed.

    So, the OP has a vaild question and I see where he is coming from. I don't think it becomes illegal unless you start trading login details, fudging the system to get things to download.
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  15. ironsoulreaver's Avatar
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    #65  
    It's still tied to the original account though. It's not sharing between accounts, but no that's not theft. Psvita solved the ps3's problem by only allowing one account per device and the card has to be formatted to switch accounts. I for see this happening alot in the future.

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  16. andrelamont's Avatar
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    #66  
    Equating the intentional iTunes purchase models as hacks / thievery / killing your first child / grand theft / felonies and etc is complete hogwash.

    Apple on purpose, decide to be customer friendly towards families. There's nothing more to read into it. Sensationalizing or taking extreme viewpoints to win a debate says something about the strength of the argument points.

    The Apple model can be abused and probably has, but its the most customer friendly model.

    For example,

    I have wife and 3 kids, the old model would be to buy a single CD rip it, and allow all 5 members of my family to gain access to the song by syncing. This is not stealing, pirating, harming the music artist and his/her right to feed their starving kids. I would have never bought 5 copies of the same album for all 5 members pre-iPod era. Of course if I made, duplicate CD and passed them out that would have been questionable.

    So, now with iTunes, my FAMILY can buy one Rihanna album w/ one itunes account and we all can listen to it on our various iPods,iPads and iPhones....no crime was committed and apple understands this is how families work. If this model didn't exists..we would be back to buying physical CDs and iTunes would get no sales from family members. We can now sync, purchases by using iTunes Match/ Purchase History.


    The MS Way...
    We have a family XBox Live account...so when the Gears of Wars extra maps came out I had to buy one for me and it could not be used on my son and daughter Xbox on the same network in the same household. This choice by MS has led to our family buying less items because our family cant share the same maps or apps. We buy less because, the three of us don't all have the same expansion maps.

    This model existed with the Zune product where I ended up being the only one with the product because the store model wasn't family friendly ( and no I am not talking about sharing the zune pass feature )

    With the Windows Store, the Windows Phone Store and Xbox Store, MS has chosen a model that is not family friendly and its their choice. As consumers, we have options. I know the amount of of apps I have bought no my phone is 30x less than what I bought/approved of on our iTunes account and its directly related to the fact that my family can legally have access to the same model. I can tell you as the head CFO of my family, I have strongly recommended that they get iPhones/iPods for this very reason.

    The MS way is a barrier for adopting Windows 8 machines in the household as Apple model (sigh...) just works

    p.s, it hard for me to vision the starving developer image / with a $99 develeper registration fee, smart phone, modern computer, dual 24" monitor setup and etc. There are some truly homeless people in the world and a windows phone developer is not one of them.
    Last edited by andrelamont; 12-02-2012 at 11:56 AM.
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  17. palandri's Avatar
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    #67  
    Some of these DRM, RIAA...etc.. laws are confusing. How can iTunes allow family sharing and other can't? I don't get it.

    There's a tavern by me that got in trouble. Whenever there was a pay per view event, like a professional boxing match, concert...etc... The tavern would purchase it and show it on their main TV. They never charged their customers to watch it. The owner of the tavern made some good points. He bought a business Comcast account specifically for his tavern, in his taverns name. If he bought a pay per view event, obviously it was going to viewed in the tavern, but that wasn't legal for some reason. I guess it's like the DJ who buys music, but can't play it at an event without paying additional DRM fees.

    So I guess if I purchase a pay per view event at my house and invite friends over to watch it, that would be illegal, I guess. I find some of these laws confusing.
    Last edited by palandri; 12-02-2012 at 11:47 AM.
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  18. philxor's Avatar
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    #68  
    Looking at the actual Terms of Use posted on the Windows Phone Marketplace it simply reads:

    1. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. You may install and use one copy of the application on up to five (5) Windows Phone enabled devices that are affiliated with the Microsoft account you use to access the Windows Phone Store/Marketplace.

    It doesn't say anything about you being the owner of the device, having it in your control, etc. Hopmedic posted the ToU from Live.com which is completely different than the Windows Phone Marketplace. It states you can't have someone else controlling your account which is standard for pretty much any account-based service in existence. The WP Marketplace ToU are actually less restrictive than the iOS ones, which stipulate you must either own or control the device in order to install an application. To say that iOS has "app sharing" would be wrong, it really doesn't have any more allowances than WP does.

    Keep in mind the ToU for media content on itunes is much more relaxed and they even have home sharing as a feature.




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  19. msdugn's Avatar
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    #69  
    hopmedic. For the sake of this community, please stop beating a dead horse with your personal interpretation that's anything but the sacrosanct truth you believe it to be.

    If there are mods here, can we kill this thread for the sake of this forum and the Windows Phone community at large?
  20.    #70  
    I think this is an important thread. I mean this is one restriction that may prevent many people from going to windows phone.
  21. ironsoulreaver's Avatar
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    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    So I guess if I purchase a pay per view even at my house and invite friends over to watch it, that would be illegal, I guess. I find some of these laws confusing.
    Actually yes, technically it is illegal. I just took a law class on media and copyright and it's the way it's worded. It's intended to prevent people from running "public viewings" with consumer goods. The only legal way around it is using commercial license from the owning company. I think all this DRM and account locking is a bunch of crap and when you buy something you should get to do whatever you want with your property as long as your not making copies and giving it away to a bunch of other people. Unfortunately every single bit if digital content you purchase does not even belong to you and you only purchase the right to use it and is not transferable. We're backed into a corner and they wonder why so many people steal.
    Last edited by ironsoulreaver; 12-02-2012 at 11:56 AM.

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  22.    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by SinisterDuck View Post
    Microsoft won't "do something about this" -- it's not in their best interest. They get a cut of the apps sold. They also won't want developers "revoking" apps. They have enough trouble getting them on board in the first place.
    I do see your point, I think the most important thing is to get windows phone into more hands, when this happens developers will come because there are a lot more customers. Something like a home sharing for apps I think would bring more people to this ecosystem, which would be better for the developer. Currently my wife is holding out because of this, I know it is just one person but that is probably for a lot of others as well.
  23. palandri's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by msdugn View Post
    hopmedic. For the sake of this community, please stop beating a dead horse with your personal interpretation that's anything but the sacrosanct truth you believe it to be.

    If there are mods here, can we kill this thread for the sake of this forum and the Windows Phone community at large?
    I understand your point and I also underderstand what hopmedic is saying. I just don't take it as personal as you or hopmedic do. I always purchase any software or music. If I am going to upgrade my wife's laptop from Win7 to Win8, I'll buy another Win8 upgrade. I won't try to use the one I purchased for my laptop. That's just the way it is with windows.
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  24. palandri's Avatar
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    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by ironsoulreaver View Post
    Actually yes, technically it is illegal. I just took a law class on media and copyright and it's the way it's worded. It's intended to prevent people from running "public viewings" with consumer goods. The only legal way around it is using commercial license from the owning company. I think all this DRM and account locking is a bunch of crap and when you buy something you should get to do whatever you want with your property as long as your not making copies and giving it away to a bunch of other people. Unfortunately every single bit if digital content you purchase does not even belong to you and you only purchase the right to use it and is not transferable. Were backed into a corner and they wonder why so many people steal.
    Thanks for that. That's what I thought.
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  25. ironsoulreaver's Avatar
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    How can iTunes allow family sharing and other can't?
    I forgot about this one... Apple does not allow family sharing... your simply logging in to your iTunes account and downloading software. Technically your not sharing anything with anyone because your using your account to access the goods. It's a proper design on account management. One account for iCloud, one for synching your phone, one account for e-mail, and one for iTunes. Everything is it's own system. Apple just did a good job of making it an easy one step setup and you can log out of each service individually except syncing because your phones Serial is your account. With Windows Phone everything has to be under one account and that's where everything changes.

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