[iamtim]

iTunes syncs with iPhone from day one

And the Windows Phone app synced all my music to my 820 from day one as well. So...?

[fardream]

And the Windows Phone app synced all my music to my 820 from day one as well. So...?

Try syncing Zune pass music downloaded by Zune?

[iamtim]

Try syncing Zune pass music downloaded by Zune?

Don't have that. My point is that when I had my iPhone and I wanted to sync music, I'd plug the iPhone in, fire up iTunes, and sync my music. Now with my 820 when I want to sync music I plug the phone in, fire up the Windows Phone app, and sync my music. That's straight up apples-to-apples.

Does "Zune pass music" download to your PC? Or is it cloud-based music? Is it DRMed?

[fardream]

Don't have that. My point is that when I had my iPhone and I wanted to sync music, I'd plug the iPhone in, fire up iTunes, and sync my music. Now with my 820 when I want to sync music I plug the phone in, fire up the Windows Phone app, and sync my music. That's straight up apples-to-apples.

Does "Zune pass music" download to your PC? Or is it cloud-based music? Is it DRMed?

yes, Zune music pass music are downloaded to your PC, and syncable to your phone. And it's quite easy to make playlist on Zune software...

[iamtim]

yes, Zune music pass music are downloaded to your PC, and syncable to your phone.

So... you have a collection of music downloaded to your computer. In what format is the music stored? Is it DRMed? What happens when you plug your phone in and use the Windows Phone app (on Windows 8) or Windows Explorer (on Windows 7) to sync the music to your phone?

[rockstarzzz]

I agree that I'm not the "average person." But MS is marketing WP as the phone for everyone, not just for techies or people who just like to try new things.

And I'm aware of the implications of a kernel rewrite, but it's not really a good explanation for me. Look at Windows 8. To my knowledge that was also a kernel rewrite, but they managed to bring new and compelling things to the OS at the same time.

Maybe I'm getting off topic here, but I guess I'm just disappointed by the rate of development of WP. I got my Trophy at launch, back in the NoDo days (Verizon didn't have any phones pre-Nodo). The OS was really raw back then but I think most users were in it because they saw great potential from WP. Then Mango came out and it was a huge step forward. There were still plenty of holes in the OS afterward, but Mango added so many things, it made it easy to be encouraged by MS's progress. It was exciting to be an early adopter when I could see the OS growing like that.

Then over the next year I waited with excitement for WP8. But then WP8 finally came along and aside from the start screen, didn't bring much to the table for those of us who already had a WP7. So many little issues that were there since day one are still there, and probably will be for at least another year when the next big update comes. It really dampened my excitement for the future of WP. It's just a disappointment and I think that's at least part of the reason why people are posting complaints.

Sorry this got a little long. I just felt that this was as good a place as any to post my feelings about being an early adopter.

Ditto.

[MojoHand69]

So... you have a collection of music downloaded to your computer. In what format is the music stored? Is it DRMed? What happens when you plug your phone in and use the Windows Phone app (on Windows 8) or Windows Explorer (on Windows 7) to sync the music to your phone?

Is it possible to make a playlist with music you have stored natively on your WP8 phone w/o syncing with WP App or WPM?

[tk-093]

I'm as big of a Microsoft Fanboy as they come, but I can still call it like I see it. It sounds like syncing of music is a pretty big fail from what I've read. (I admit I have not really tried it yet because I'm still flipping between the 822 and my GS3 because I can't get corp email yet on the 822, I'll probably try it tonight so I can stop speaking out of my ****. :) ). I have hundreds of songs I've downloaded using my monthly Zune Pass (not XBOX Music or whatever they call it.) Sounds like that won't sync over? (They are DRM'd) Is that true?

The Zune app is a beautiful piece of software, you could sync wirelessly with WP7 and with Zune devices. All that appears to be gone. A new kernal has zero to do with it syncing with Zune or not. Microsoft, for whatever reason, decided just not to support it anymore. Probably a different silo in the company...

Personally it seems like as big a fail as the apple maps debacle, but the marketshare is so tiny that only a tiny number of us will actually complain. Microsoft probably cares more about it syncing with iTunes, and that actually probably makes sense since that's what 90% of people have anyway.

I will miss the Zune client... she was sexy. :)

[shinygerbil]

So... you have a collection of music downloaded to your computer. In what format is the music stored? Is it DRMed? What happens when you plug your phone in and use the Windows Phone app (on Windows 8) or Windows Explorer (on Windows 7) to sync the music to your phone?

This has been covered extensively elsewhere, but for the sake of answering your passive aggressive questioning:

The music is DRMed WMA. As the phone and the desktop software use the same service and the same account credentials, the music should play on the phone. This was always the case in WP7.

There are two scenarios:

1) using the windows 8 app, the content will sync as normal. When you try to play the content on the phone, it will come up with an error message stating that it cannot be played. Some have reported success with repeatedly trying to play the track until it "unlocks" but I haven't been able to get this to work.

2) using Explorer, you simply receive an error message stating that the content you are trying to sync has DRM and may not work with your device. It will then refuse to sync.

In short, due to the change from Zune to Xbox branding, longtime Zune users are feeling a bit shafted. I have basically had to redownload my music collection onto my phone. 😢

[iamtim]

your passive aggressive questioning

Keep your assumptions to yourself, I'm asking because I actually want to know. I've not paid attention to the Zune issues elsewhere because they didn't apply to me.

Is there a way I can test this for myself? Or is it too late because it's all Xbox now? Is it possible to burn your DRMed music to CD and import it as un-DRMed MP3s (which is what I'm having to do with my iTunes DRMed music)?

[shinygerbil]

Hah, sorry, I did just assume from the rapid-fire questions, and the fact the info is elsewhere, but if you've not used it before, you weren't to know. 😖

AFAIK it is possible to burn Zune Pass music to a CD and rip it. That always seemed a bit of a hassle to me though - that and I don't have any CDRs to hand! There are apparently programs out there to strip the DRM but I haven't looked into that and don't really want to. I wonder if it's possible to "burn" the music onto an ISO disc image and then "rip" it in an automated fashion.

You might be able to test it actually; if you have the "old" Zune application for Windows (which still works great in W8, and still works with my Zune Pass, but won't play music downloaded through the W8 Xbox Music app) then I would imagine any music you download through that would still be on the "old" Zune DRM system which gives WP8 such issues.

[iamtim]

I don't have it, but I'm sure I can find a copy somewhere. I'm going to give it a shot and see if I can replicate the problem.

[thegoodnotes]

I too made the jump from an iPhone 4 - was initially excited to be an early adopter. However, after just over a week, I had to return the 8X and get a Galaxy S3. I think the WP8 does some things INCREDIBLY well - much better than iOS and Android IMO - email management (multiple consolidated inboxes), lock screen notifications, People hub, SkyDrive syncing, etc. I absolutely love the UI as well. Really nicely done. And compared to the pain it has been to set up the S3, WP8 is very user friendly, but still much more flexible than iOS. Lot of great things going for it. So why did I jump ship?

1) Lack of apps. I knew going in this was going to be the case, but once I got the device, it really magnified this issue. Although I found some substitutes, others weren't replaceable and frankly, I don't want to find substitutes for my services. I want to use the ones I already have.

2) Poor battery life on the 8X. My S3 destroys the 8X in this respect. Yes, the S3 has a larger battery, but it isn't even close.

3) Functionality shortcomings. For example, Tell Me. As a consumer, I'll say "Oh cool, WP8 has Siri", but it is extremely limited. For example, I wasn't able to do things like "Schedule a calendar appointment for tomorrow" etc. Really basic stuff if you're including a Voice Assistant. And when compared to Android (and even iOS), WP8 is still falling short in terms of the feature set. And - the OS X sync program doesn't work at all (crashed 100% of the time for me).

Now, I'm 100% confident that Microsoft will be able to address ALL of these concerns. They are very much early adopter frustrations. If you're an early adopter, you've sort of agreed to put up with them to a certain extent. I thought I was fine with that, but when I got into it, it felt that WP8 was still 6-12 months away from achieving parity with options that were already available to me. So, for that period, I'm choosing another option with the hope that I'll be able to switch back to WP8 sooner rather than later. I really hope WP8 can gain some traction despite these issues, but Microsoft really needs to put the pedal to the metal. You can't expect to win consumers with a lossy copy of existing options.

[iamtim]

Ok, so, I'm running Windows 8 Professional on a Toshiba laptop. I downloaded and installed Zune software 4.8, bought 400 points, and downloaded a song. I then closed the Zune software (and the Desktop), plugged in my Lumia 820, fired up the Windows Phone app, and synced the song I'd just purchased. I unplugged my phone, started Nokia Music, and played the song I'd just purchased.

Just to be sure, I backed out of Nokia Music and started the stock WP8 Music & Videos app and played the song I'd just purchased through that app as well.

The only odd thing I can see is that doing so somehow changed my avatar here on wpcentral. That's... odd.

I will say that yeah, the Zune software is a damned fine app. I don't know why they changed it either. But... it seems to work for me.

[shinygerbil]

The issue is not with songs which have been bought outright -- they are DRM-free if I recall.

The issue is with songs which are downloaded through the monthly Xbox Music (formerly Zune Pass) subscription; these songs are essentially rented and have DRM. You don't buy them with MS points; you can download as much as you like for free, and they will be playable as long as you keep subscribing.

[iamtim]

Well, poo. I just spent $5 on one song then. :D

[shinygerbil]

Oops! I hope it was a good song!

[Paladinleeds]

Ok, so, I'm running Windows 8 Professional on a Toshiba laptop. I downloaded and installed Zune software 4.8, bought 400 points, and downloaded a song. I then closed the Zune software (and the Desktop), plugged in my Lumia 820, fired up the Windows Phone app, and synced the song I'd just purchased. I unplugged my phone, started Nokia Music, and played the song I'd just purchased.

Just to be sure, I backed out of Nokia Music and started the stock WP8 Music & Videos app and played the song I'd just purchased through that app as well.

The only odd thing I can see is that doing so somehow changed my avatar here on wpcentral. That's... odd.

I will say that yeah, the Zune software is a damned fine app. I don't know why they changed it either. But... it seems to work for me.

Purchasing songs outright gives you a DRM-free copy. I have tested this in SAM Broadcaster (it cannot play files protected with ANY DRM...) and they play fine. The name is probably a giveaway, but SAMBC is used for broadcasting radio. They've probably not included that function deliberately... Still, would be nice if someone could PAL script it so it would work... would make sourcing music for my shows a **** of a lot easier... 192kbps WMA... to say I broadcast at 96kbps... it's actually good quality.

[iamtim]

Oops! I hope it was a good song!

My girlfriend hates it, but I like it: Some Nights by Fun. :)

[SomethingSomethingDarkSide]

The level of apology here, honestly, is almost at Apple levels. I'm as big a MS fanboy as there is, but there's no question, as much as I love my 822, that MS dropped the ball on many fronts with this release. To me it's pretty clear that things were rushed and as a result the OS isn't quite fully baked. A list of things that have aggravated me in just the past 4 days I've owned this phone -

1. No EAP-TTLS support - mindboggling as this is a standard that's been present since Android 2.x; it's a widely used standard in universities, hospital, etc., and considering how the newly released Win8/RT has native support I'm not sure why WP8 does not. This is HUGE for me as I can't access wifi at school where the cavernous monstrosity of the buildings I inhabit daily prevent reliable cell reception. Anyone in my position less devoted to the platform likely would have returned this phone for this reason alone.
2. Essentially zero integration with Win8. I have 2 Win8/RT devices - my laptop and Surface, with the Surface bought and set up before my laptop was upgraded. When I installed Win8 on my laptop, all the settings for mail and calendar (Exchange, google, facebook) immediately were synced. No such luck with WP8. What's the deal? On this note, it's almost MORE confusing that WP8 and Win8 share a design language, because none of the functions are shared. Contextual search in WP8? Nope. Swipe down to close in WP8? Nope. Swipe right to switch apps in WP8? Nope. I find myself constantly trying to do this with my phone, which I suppose is a real credit to the intuitiveness of the Win8 interface, but at least the first two of these should have been implemented.
3. No wireless sync. This was a feature since NoDo, so I can't quite understand what the deal is here. Lame, and gives up a feature no other OS could offer.
4. No group MMS with verizon. I understand this is a carrier issue, but MS shouldn't have allowed them to disable what is a very critical day-to-day function for many of us. This is a huge deal to me personally as ad hoc group MMS is primarily how my large group of friends and classmates communicate. It also makes me worry that MS will be able to provide OTA updates, as they're already caving to carrier pressure.
5. No orientation lock. Come on.
6. No notification light.

I honestly am stoked with this phone despite the above and other minor stuff, but the "early adopter" schtick is not really acceptable. I appreciate the task of having to start from scratch with NT, but the fact of the matter is MS is severely late to the dance and can ill afford an OS that isn't competitive on ALL fronts

[StevesBalls]

2. Essentially zero integration with Win8. I have 2 Win8/RT devices - my laptop and Surface, with the Surface bought and set up before my laptop was upgraded. When I installed Win8 on my laptop, all the settings for mail and calendar (Exchange, google, facebook) immediately were synced. No such luck with WP8. What's the deal? On this note, it's almost MORE confusing that WP8 and Win8 share a design language, because none of the functions are shared. Contextual search in WP8? Nope. Swipe down to close in WP8? Nope. Swipe right to switch apps in WP8? Nope. I find myself constantly trying to do this with my phone, which I suppose is a real credit to the intuitiveness of the Win8 interface, but at least the first two of these should have been implemented.

This is a very very good point.

[iamtim]

1. No EAP-TTLS support

Not everyone needs this; I certainly don't. I'll give you this one, though, because it does look like either an oversight or a ran-out-of-time.

2. Essentially zero integration with Win8.

I also have two Windows 8 devices: my Toshiba laptop and my 21.5" iMac (yay Boot Camp!) Once I logged in to my WP8 device all my settings were there except for my Exchange account. I wouldn't want that to auto-configure anyway. For me, it integrated as much as I need it to.

3. No wireless sync.

Sounds like another oversight or ran-out-of-time.

4. No group MMS with verizon.

Totally not a MS/WP8 issue, as you said. That said, I absolutely *hate* group MMS, never use it, and ask others not to group MMS me.

5. No orientation lock. Come on.

Don't care.

6. No notification light.

Again, don't care.

This is why I say so many of these "OMG WP8 IS TEH HORRIBLE" issues are situational and preferential over-reactions. Of your 6 items, *I* think only two of them are actual, bona-fide MS WP8 issues.

Now you can say all you want that I'm a fanboy and I'm apologizing for MS, but that's a load of crap. It amazes me that so many people want their issues validated as super important, but they're utterly unwilling to accept that those issues aren't issues to everyone. They couldn't possibly be a preference, or situational, oh no... they're top-line issues that are going to send people screaming for the hills and destroy the platform. *rollseyes*

[SomethingSomethingDarkSide]

Now you can say all you want that I'm a fanboy and I'm apologizing for MS, but that's a load of crap. It amazes me that so many people want their issues validated as super important, but they're utterly unwilling to accept that those issues aren't issues to everyone. They couldn't possibly be a preference, or situational, oh no... they're top-line issues that are going to send people screaming for the hills and destroy the platform. *rollseyes*

Who said any of these are top-line issues? Though TTLS to me is pretty high-priority given the lack of apps that would address this situation were this iOS or Android. Ironically, you're accusing folks like me for complaining about things that are "situational," but pretty much all YOUR counterpoints are oh they don't apply to me, I don't care. Well guess what, a smartphone OS is supposed to cater to a wide base of consumers and situations. You don't care about orientation lock? Good for you. A ton of people do. It's a ridiculously simple feature that is already wired into WP8 that is only accessible to apps. The list goes on. Some other person may be bugged by something that I don't notice at all, too. The point is that these things add up and for lots of people they tip the scale the other way. This means just one less person in this still fledgling ecosystem, which only HURTS the people, like you, that are probably going to stick it through regardless. And ultimately, if enough people decide this OS is not for them, that DOES destroy the platform, one I personally am heavily invested in. So take your snark and shove it, at least until you can demonstrate you can see past your rabid infatuation to rationally discuss the matter at hand.

[Dave Blake]

Sorry all but this is a help forum this thread isn't helping anyone.

Thread Closed.