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  1. SnailUK's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryude View Post
    MS needs to put up a feedback program like Steam's Greenlight. Let people vote on ideas/functionality that they want the most and then provide it in the next update. Boom, you just suddenly solved 90% of peoples problem with Windows Phone.
    There is already such a thing.

    Feature Suggestions: Hot (17697 ideas)

    People don't use it properly (theres like hundreds of posts about bluetooth, rather than one with hundreds of votes).

    Its also full of requests for apps, which Microsoft have no influence over.

    Its an interesting read, but if they implemented everything, you'd just be basically using Android. It'll do everything ever, but the performance would suffer as a concequence of having to do every conseivable thing someone could want.
  2. jwinch2's Avatar
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    #27  
    I think WP8 will be very successful. Already, a number of people I know are interested. Heck some of my students at the university I teach at are buying the Surface or another Windows Tablet instead of the iPhone or an Android. They like the fresh interface and heck, their parents all have iPhones now so they are looking for something different.

    Some here are suggesting that this is a marathon and not a sprint, and I agree for the most part. However, Windows Phone has this time when they need to push, and push hard. The iPhone 5 has not been as impressive as people were expecting and Samsung has been hitting them hard in the advertisement world. Android's newest major update to the OS was several months back and it will be a while before they make another major leap. Blackberry 10 is supposed to come out Jan 2013.

    One of the biggest things holding them back right now is the one everyone knows about, apps. They need quality apps. Microsoft should be approaching the developers of the most popular apps on iOS and Android and getting them interested in app development for WP8. They quite literally should be looking to see what are the 20 most popular, highly rated, and widely used apps in every single app category on iOS and Android and pay those developers to create a version for WP8 which takes advantage of the live tiles and integrates with the system properly. We need to see an exponential increase in the number of quality apps that actually expand or refine the capability of the platform, not just BS junk apps, of which there are far too many on all platforms.

    So, between now and Jan, Microsoft, Nokia, HTC, Samsung, etc. need to pretend they are in a sprint. If they can gain some market share now and through the holidays, it will pay dividends going forward.
    Last edited by jwinch2; 11-14-2012 at 08:19 AM.
    My smartphone history.
  3. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
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    #28  
    Q3 reveals growth in the smartphone market, for Samsung and Apple. Samsung now sells more smartphones than feature phones and dumb phone.
    Smartphone sales: Q3 reveals growth led by Android and Samsung | BGR
    Goodbye Dooley! You will NOT be missed!:@
    Bring back the WeeeeeBeeeeaaarrrr
  4. aubreyq's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Villain View Post
    ...I still think the wp8 launch is the worse launch I ever seen.
    Amen, brother. No way anyone can spin that into a positive launch.
  5. sinime's Avatar
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    #30  
    It may have been a crap launch, but at least Nokia Is selling more Lumias than they expected to at launch... http://www.wpcentral.com/lumia-920-w...d-passes-expec
    My Apps: PIP (WP8 - Compass / Flashlight), Beer Knurd (WP7/8), Meme 8 Ball (WP8)

  6. ryude's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnailUK View Post
    There is already such a thing.

    Feature Suggestions: Hot (17697 ideas)

    People don't use it properly (theres like hundreds of posts about bluetooth, rather than one with hundreds of votes).

    Its also full of requests for apps, which Microsoft have no influence over.

    Its an interesting read, but if they implemented everything, you'd just be basically using Android. It'll do everything ever, but the performance would suffer as a concequence of having to do every conseivable thing someone could want.
    Having more functionality isn't the reason why Android is laggy. Android itself is written in C, which is a very fast language. The apps are written in Java and run inside of a VM called Dalvik. Virtual Machines use a lot of resources and we all know ARM processors aren't the fastest in the world. WP8 is also written in C, but the apps are written in C (as well as other languages that can run natively). Another reason why Android is laggy is because they don't restrict what a developer can do, it has nothing to do with Android's built-in features/functionality.
    XENOPHOS likes this.
  7. Old_Cus's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinime View Post
    It may have been a crap launch, but at least Nokia Is selling more Lumias than they expected to at launch... Telstra: Lumia 920 Windows Phone demand smashes expectations | Windows Phone Central
    Somethingís been bothering me about this and I finally figured it out. No one has mentioned numbers. How many 920ís were sold on the first day? How many 920ís and 820ís were on hand for preorder? How many WP8 devices were on hand at AT&T stores on launch day?

    I fell in love with WP a year ago and like many of you I have watched this platform evolve. More important I have seen interest grow as more and more people become aware of what windows phone is and what it can do. Yes it does take time and I think reasonable people realize this and are willing to give Microsoft and the OEMs the time to grow the platform and market share.


    With that said I couldnít be more disappointed with the WP8 launch. First tease announcements that gave very little if any information about a new OS. Lame product announcements that again gave the public little (can anyone tell me just what Samsung is doing with WP8?) Everything pointed to the OS not being ready on time but no one would admit it. And the result? It appears that there is not nearly enough phones to accommodate the demand. Yes stores and preorder are sold out but far too many people either canít find phones or are canceling their orders because of delays. These are customers that should have WP8 devices in their hands and showing them off to their friends and family. This is how you grow a product. I donít know where the fault lies and I really donít care. All I know is that a major opportunity is being missed.

    I sincerely hope that Window Phone 8 succeeds but unless all parties involved get their collective acts together success will come in spite of them. I guess we'll have to wait until next year to see what 4th quarter numbers will be.
    ...When you judge someone you tell more about yourself than the person you are judging.
  8. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1jaxstate1 View Post
    Why do they tire you? Because MS is on the bottom?
    No, because they're useless as a measure of actual utility of the device.

    Marketshare arguments are all about "mine is bigger than yours." Completely irrelevant if you buy a device to actually DO things (rather than get reassurance for "going with the crowd.")

    It's a stupid reason to buy ANY tech platform.

    If Microsoft roars to 75% share in mobile and dominates in marketshare as a result, that's STILL a stupid reason to buy a Windows Phone.
  9. phonegeeks's Avatar
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    #34  
    Gartner's mobile market reports already reported that the mobile market could have very well turned into a duopoly. In these trying times, all that could really save WP8 from joining its forefathers in history is an intensive app development program incentivized by Microsoft. Also, I have read the a few things here and there but I am still not perfectly sure why Lumia 920 is exclusive to AT&T.
  10. jwinch2's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsmgeeks View Post
    Gartner's mobile market reports already reported that the mobile market could have very well turned into a duopoly. In these trying times, all that could really save WP8 from joining its forefathers in history is an intensive app development program incentivized by Microsoft.
    Agreed, 100%. MS needs to heavily incentivize app development. BB is showing the way perhaps. http://www.gsmnation.com/blog/2012/1...games-of-2012/


    Also, I have read the a few things here and there but I am still not perfectly sure why Lumia 920 is exclusive to AT&T.
    I'm not sure either, particularly considering the manner in which ATT has bungled the release.
    Last edited by jwinch2; 11-14-2012 at 05:28 PM.
    My smartphone history.
  11. jsk0703's Avatar
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    #36  
    I think they will steadily gain as time goes by. Just because the product doesn't explode on day 1 doesn't mean much. Not everyone will break contract or buy out of contract to get the phone. It's the people buying new service or are due for an upgrade, that is where the potential exists.

    The Zune didn't become a huge hit despite being a very good product, especially the Zune HD. But if Microsoft can do what it did with Xbox then things will be interesting in a couple years.

    As far as AT&T goes, it sort of makes sense for them to snag the Nokia 920 exclusively. Years ago they had the stranglehold on iPhone. Now every carrier has it practically. Verizon still seems to be in bed with the Motorola Droid lineup. So IMO AT&T needs something to set itself apart.
  12. mparker's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryude View Post
    Having more functionality isn't the reason why Android is laggy. Android itself is written in C, which is a very fast language. The apps are written in Java and run inside of a VM called Dalvik. Virtual Machines use a lot of resources and we all know ARM processors aren't the fastest in the world. WP8 is also written in C, but the apps are written in C (as well as other languages that can run natively). Another reason why Android is laggy is because they don't restrict what a developer can do, it has nothing to do with Android's built-in features/functionality.
    Actually WP8 and Android are more similar than different in this respect. Most Android apps are written in Java and run inside a VM, but some apps (mostly games) are written in native-compiled C. Similarly, most WP8 apps are written in C# and run inside a VM, but some apps (mostly games) are written in native-compiled C. Whatever it is that makes Android laggy (and it has gotten better in recent versions) it's not due to VM vs native code. It could be their VM is just very inefficient, but it's not due to anything inherent to VM's in general.

    FWIW, almost all apps for the iPhone are written in native-compiled C (Objective-C). Even MonoTouch (a C# development system for the iPhone used by a handful of apps) compiles the C# source code to native ARM instructions for the iPhone.
  13. ryude's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by mparker View Post
    Actually WP8 and Android are more similar than different in this respect. Most Android apps are written in Java and run inside a VM, but some apps (mostly games) are written in native-compiled C. Similarly, most WP8 apps are written in C# and run inside a VM, but some apps (mostly games) are written in native-compiled C. Whatever it is that makes Android laggy (and it has gotten better in recent versions) it's not due to VM vs native code. It could be their VM is just very inefficient, but it's not due to anything inherent to VM's in general.

    FWIW, almost all apps for the iPhone are written in native-compiled C (Objective-C). Even MonoTouch (a C# development system for the iPhone used by a handful of apps) compiles the C# source code to native ARM instructions for the iPhone.
    You're right, I was just trying to get the point across that Android itself is not laggy due to it's functionality.
  14. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsmgeeks View Post
    Gartner's mobile market reports already reported that the mobile market could have very well turned into a duopoly. In these trying times, all that could really save WP8 from joining its forefathers in history is an intensive app development program incentivized by Microsoft. Also, I have read the a few things here and there but I am still not perfectly sure why Lumia 920 is exclusive to AT&T.
    Right. And Gartner also predicted that the Macintosh would be discontinued by 1999 and that Apple would be building boxes running Windows NT or Solaris, which would be the only two major computer operating systems.

    No market in tech is ever closed to innovation and market opportunity.
  15. XENOPHOS's Avatar
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    #40  
    Responding to the OP,

    MS needs to play on its strengths: Security, native app development (for developers) and the overall ease of use in the OS.

    Instead what it is doing is focusing on making people aware of how "You" centric it is. All phones do that. What different are you doing?

    Like it or not, I think it boils down to advertising. Now by that I don't mean just commercials. I mean word-a-mouth too.

    It has by far the best OS security I have seen (or liked) on any platform. Show me one person who doesn't like a secured device. I have to go through heaps and heaps of pages from one forum to another to know how amazingly secured the OS is. MS needs to tell people about that. FB isn't everyone's reason to pick a WP8. Security definitely is.

    Ease of use: The OS is so simple, it takes just 1 day to understand it throughout. Why? Cause it is designed in such a way that it responds to you in the SAME way everywhere.

    People need to be told about all this. See how it becomes an instant hit.
    There is no written formula to be successful anywhere. Markets change, people change, times change.

    Innovation is what people are looking for. Simplicity in this life is now a rarity. And that's exactly what MS has. In abundance.

    Sent from my RaZr HD.
  16. jwinch2's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by XENOPHOS View Post
    Responding to the OP,

    MS needs to play on its strengths: Security, native app development (for developers) and the overall ease of use in the OS.
    Agreed. As noted earlier, they need to kick this into overdrive.

    Instead what it is doing is focusing on making people aware of how "You" centric it is. All phones do that. What different are you doing?

    Like it or not, I think it boils down to advertising. Now by that I don't mean just commercials. I mean word-a-mouth too.
    I have started to see some adds. Hopefully that will pick up.

    It has by far the best OS security I have seen (or liked) on any platform. Show me one person who doesn't like a secured device. I have to go through heaps and heaps of pages from one forum to another to know how amazingly secured the OS is. MS needs to tell people about that. FB isn't everyone's reason to pick a WP8. Security definitely is.
    This was one of the reasons I started looking elsewhere from Android. RIM is pushing that angle hard for Blackberry 10 to capture market share in government agencies, businesses, etc. They have traditionally done well in this area but you are correct in that MS should be beating that drum loud and consistently as well.

    Ease of use: The OS is so simple, it takes just 1 day to understand it throughout. Why? Cause it is designed in such a way that it responds to you in the SAME way everywhere.

    People need to be told about all this. See how it becomes an instant hit.
    There is no written formula to be successful anywhere. Markets change, people change, times change.

    Innovation is what people are looking for. Simplicity in this life is now a rarity. And that's exactly what MS has. In abundance.

    Sent from my RaZr HD.
    Simplicity is good provided it also gives people the functionality that they are looking for, particularly if they are coming from an Android based device. MS is getting there in this area in my view but still have a ways to go.
    My smartphone history.
  17. c8m6p's Avatar
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    #42  
    I believe the reason WP8 did not include as many end user features as we all expected was because a lot of the work in wp8 went into recoding the base for the new kernel. Now with a solid foundation, ota updates, and new "future proof" hardware I think the os will be updated to include the features we've all been waiting for: ie, notification center, folders, etc.

    The app problem is indeed frustrating. But we can't blame developers for not investing their resources in a platform which will not return any dividend.

    What needs to happen is WP needs a "killer feature" not available on any other platform. Of course having a unified ecosystem between windows 8 and wp8 will help that cause. With Xbox it was the advent of Xbox live which was superior to PlayStations offerings. I believe MS should push WP as a superior gaming platform. And once it reaches a critical mass of users developers will begin to pay attention and concede to wp8.

    I also think some of the design of WP needs to be reconsidered. I am used to it know, but I remember first looking at wp7 and not liking how titles always seemed to be "cut off" as a visual cue to swipe to the right. I think there are other ways to achieve this that would be more visually appealing. Just my opinion.
  18. Joelist's Avatar
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    #43  
    It will be fine. God you people are the worst negative nellies....

    The corporate Verizon Store close to me in Chicago is a major one, and they are getting themselves all set for tomorrow (crew in late after close rearranging the store).

    The Apple section they used to have in the front of the store has been replaced by Windows Phone with big pictures of the phones, display racks and the whole works. Apple is now just a small area next to Windows Phone. All tablets are in a separate Tablets section and the Androids are towards the back of the store.

    I think it is an interesting setup because it basically puts the Windows Phones where everybody will see them immediately. And remember, Verizon historically "launches" phones then gets everything worked up properly for their big sales days - so for them the launch date is not necessarily their push date - look for that on Black Friday probably.
  19. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #44  
    We are all doomed! Windows Phone will be washed away by the unstoppable tidal wave of BlackBerry 10!
  20. jwinch2's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by c8m6p View Post
    I believe the reason WP8 did not include as many end user features as we all expected was because a lot of the work in wp8 went into recoding the base for the new kernel. Now with a solid foundation, ota updates, and new "future proof" hardware I think the os will be updated to include the features we've all been waiting for: ie, notification center, folders, etc.

    The app problem is indeed frustrating. But we can't blame developers for not investing their resources in a platform which will not return any dividend.
    Fair assessment in my view. Laying the foundation of the OS itself was the priority. Now that this has been done they can start to push the other aspects of the experience. I really do think they should aggressively pursue app developers from other platforms and make it attractive for them to develop for WP8.
    My smartphone history.
  21. phonegeeks's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinch2 View Post
    Fair assessment in my view. Laying the foundation of the OS itself was the priority. Now that this has been done they can start to push the other aspects of the experience. I really do think they should aggressively pursue app developers from other platforms and make it attractive for them to develop for WP8.
    I agree. As I stressed earlier, app development is the key. 90% of the time users spend on their phones on apps. Although MS claims that it has 47 of the top 50 apps, it is a very misconstrued figure. They should be talking about the top 1000 apps instead of top 50 to substantiate their claims. As gwinch2 points out in the BB games article above, BB is going to take the market by storm. I am just hoping MS picks its game in the next few months to avoid being obliterated by BB.
  22. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsmgeeks View Post
    90% of the time users spend on their phones on apps.
    Actually, demonstrably untrue.

    I did a smartphone study last year. We installed observation software on the handsets of participants with their permission (which we later uninstalled).

    45% of smartphone owners used NO smartphone services AT ALL for the entire month. No browsing, no apps. Just phone calls, text messages, and picture messages. (1/3 of iPhone owners believed that they needed a smartphone to send embedded picture messages, BTW).

    Of the remaining 55% or so who used smartphone features...

    1) 45% used the web browser;
    2) About 40% downloaded apps;
    3) The average app was used 1.6 times in a month.

    The vast majority of time spent on the phone was either in text messaging or phone calls, across all devices. While most buyers picked up a smartphone "with the most apps" because they were told that's what they needed, the vast majority rarely used the apps they downloaded -- even when those apps were paid for.
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  23. fhumphrey04's Avatar
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    #48  
    i consider myself to be reasonably unbiased, if that's possible, and I am still on the fence whether or not this OS has a chance to succeed. I know that I enjoy using it and have since WP7, but at this point in the game it's not really a matter of how solid or fast the OS is, it's about apps and public perception.

    Whether people use apps or not, it's a marketing tool that they buy into. Apple touts it's million apps left and right, despite the fact that most of them are duplicates of others or poor quality. Google is quick to follow suit on this, despite having 30% less. In reviews it's almost always called out that WP7/8 has so few apps, but most anyone would get along just as well with what is available anyways. It needs to be mentioned as well that several key apps are still not available and it seems as though we get left out for all the new cool apps that come out into the world due to a lack of market share.

    Public perception is the big ticket item that has more of an impact than anything else. Apple, despite having a huge amount of the market share, is still considered to be the trendy/cool product manufacturer. Most people who dont buy into that notion tend to go for Android phones. Where does WP sit? It seems to be more or less following in the footsteps of Google, which is hard when they're so widely known already and manufacturers pump out new and more powerful devices every other day. It's going to be a really challenging road ahead for Microsoft, hopefully they can find a niche and exploit it, because this is a damn good operating system.
  24. cajunlte's Avatar
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by fhumphrey04 View Post
    i consider myself to be reasonably unbiased, if that's possible, and I am still on the fence whether or not this OS has a chance to succeed. I know that I enjoy using it and have since WP7, but at this point in the game it's not really a matter of how solid or fast the OS is, it's about apps and public perception.

    Whether people use apps or not, it's a marketing tool that they buy into. Apple touts it's million apps left and right, despite the fact that most of them are duplicates of others or poor quality. Google is quick to follow suit on this, despite having 30% less. In reviews it's almost always called out that WP7/8 has so few apps, but most anyone would get along just as well with what is available anyways. It needs to be mentioned as well that several key apps are still not available and it seems as though we get left out for all the new cool apps that come out into the world due to a lack of market share.

    Public perception is the big ticket item that has more of an impact than anything else. Apple, despite having a huge amount of the market share, is still considered to be the trendy/cool product manufacturer. Most people who dont buy into that notion tend to go for Android phones. Where does WP sit? It seems to be more or less following in the footsteps of Google, which is hard when they're so widely known already and manufacturers pump out new and more powerful devices every other day. It's going to be a really challenging road ahead for Microsoft, hopefully they can find a niche and exploit it, because this is a damn good operating system.
    Personally, I find myself enjoying the OS much better than both my old IOS device and my recent ICS android. The one thing that has caused me to pause in really enjoying my experience has been around the lack of apps tied to what I used day to day on the android. Companies like Mshift (financial app developer) really need to get on board. If the big boy developers get on board then I think the adoption rates are going to increase greatly as user experiences improve. I do look forward to what happens to the whole window 8 ecosystem.
  25. jwinch2's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by fhumphrey04 View Post
    Apple touts it's million apps left and right, despite the fact that most of them are duplicates of others or poor quality. Google is quick to follow suit on this, despite having 30% less. In reviews it's almost always called out that WP7/8 has so few apps, but most anyone would get along just as well with what is available anyways.
    I can only speak to my own experience on this one. For my wife, for whom her Lumia 820 is her first smartphone, she is fine with what is up for WP8. For me, coming from Android and having used a smart phone pretty much since their inception, there are dozens of apps which I used regularly, many daily, that there is no viable option for on WP8.

    Another thing to consider is that younger users are probably more likely to use apps as compared to older users. My mom, who has an iPhone, uses it for calls, calendar, e-mail, and texts. That's pretty much it except for a weather app she uses once and a while. However, younger viewers are going to be more attached to apps. With even desktop computing going the app route, this is going to be more and more of an issue as we go forward.

    My final thought at this point is that the numbers of new smartphone owners are going to plateau in the not too distant future. With that in mind, major increases in market share are going to have to come from people switching from one platform to another. If MS wishes to pull people who are used to being spoiled for choice in terms of apps, they are going to have to be able to provide the same while doing so along side of the integrated process they are working towards between phone, tablet, and desktop.
    My smartphone history.
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