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  1.    #1  
    I wasn't sure which forum to put this in, so I figured this was the best.

    Anyways, I've been looking forward to the NFC features coming with WP8 but I have some questions that I haven't been able to get cleared up on my own. I'm in Canada so my question pertains mostly to how it would function up here (if there is a difference at all).

    Rogers recently partnered with CIBC to start allowing NFC payments via mobile phones. To my understanding, this requires an NFC SIM (no NFC on the chip, just that it has an encryption that allows NFC payments) and that it will allow you to use debit and credit cards from CIBC on certain NFC enabled terminals.

    Now, here's my confusion. Allow me to illustrate it with a scenario. This was how I first envisioned the WP8 wallet:

    I have a Visa through my primary bank (not CIBC) and a debit card for the same bank. In Southern Ontario, the standard from VISA is that your credit card contains both a verification chip and an NFC chip. Debit cards in this area are the same but without NFC. Essentially, there is the stripe, the chip, and the NFC "tap n' pay". So, since my VISA is already NFC enabled I enter my VISA number, expiry date, full name on the card, etc into the Wallet on WP8. Then, using the Wallet, I can enter my Wallet pin, select my visa, select "pay with NFC" and tap the phone to the VISA paypass enabled terminal. This will detect my Visa's information in the exact same way it would if I used the actual card to "tap n pay", and the payment is complete.

    So my question is; is this how it will work?

    Does the NFC functionality effectively replace existing Visas and Mastercards at Visa and Mastercard enabled NFC terminals or will this only work if the bank has set it up like how CIBC and Rogers have?
    To my understanding, this NFC SIM and support from the bank would be required to do this with debit cards that are NOT NFC enabled, but I don't see why this would be needed for credit cards that already support this.

    Clarification on the finer details of this would be fantastic.
  2. wormy6's Avatar
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    #2  
    I don't really 'get' NFC either. For transferring files to other people, why not just email it? For paying for stuff, why not just use your credit card? I keep a money clip on me where ever I go with a bit of cash just in case, drivers license, and a credit card. I need that credit card in case my phone runs out of batteries and I usually have to carry my drivers license. So what exactly is the point of NFC?
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by wormy6 View Post
    I don't really 'get' NFC either. For transferring files to other people, why not just email it? For paying for stuff, why not just use your credit card? I keep a money clip on me where ever I go with a bit of cash just in case, drivers license, and a credit card. I need that credit card in case my phone runs out of batteries and I usually have to carry my drivers license. So what exactly is the point of NFC?

    that's not exactly what I mean. I get it. Using NFC to transfer files is simply a faster way to pair devices for Bluetooth transfers. That reduces the need for data when data cost is at a premium. I want the wallet to remove all those damn points cards and think of this.... NFC credit cards can be fished right from your pocket by a scanner. With the wallet, it makes it so that your phone will only broadcast the credit card info through the NFC chip only when you ask and through a pin.
  4. wormy6's Avatar
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    #4  
    Hm... I've never really used bluetooth. I have a bluetooth headset and speakers but they take like 30 seconds to a minute to pair them so I don't bother anymore; total waste of money.
  5. Villain's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by wormy6 View Post
    I don't really 'get' NFC either. For transferring files to other people, why not just email it? For paying for stuff, why not just use your credit card? I keep a money clip on me where ever I go with a bit of cash just in case, drivers license, and a credit card. I need that credit card in case my phone runs out of batteries and I usually have to carry my drivers license. So what exactly is the point of NFC?
    what was the point of going from all coin currency to bills?
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by wormy6 View Post
    Hm... I've never really used bluetooth. I have a bluetooth headset and speakers but they take like 30 seconds to a minute to pair them so I don't bother anymore; total waste of money.
    I use BT all the time.

    The second I turn on my car, my deck connects to my phone and begins playing music.

    There has been several times where I have recorded a video 200+MBs in size and wanted to transfer it to a friend's phone on the spot. BT transfering would be useful for these situations.
  7. Xsever's Avatar
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    #7  
    Nokia Lumia 920 | Rogers Wireless Canada
    HP Touchpad 32GB CM 9 ICS
  8. wormy6's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalWarrior View Post
    I use BT all the time.

    The second I turn on my car, my deck connects to my phone and begins playing music.

    There has been several times where I have recorded a video 200+MBs in size and wanted to transfer it to a friend's phone on the spot. BT transfering would be useful for these situations.
    That is cool, and that is how I visioned my bluetooth devices working, but it just sort of never happened. I have a Droid 1 and I cannot recall the type of speakers I have now but I have visited some forums and seen the amazon review page for the speakers since buying them and some people also had complaints about the time it takes to get speakers paired. /sigh. I want to see improvements made in NFC/BT/Wireless Charging but right now I have a lot more faith in magnets, plugs, and good old email.
  9. gfunk84's Avatar
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    #9  
    It looks like the Rogers NFC SIM is a standard sim, so you'll have to wait for a micro-SIM version (I know the 920 uses micro-SIM so I'm just assuming the others do) to be made available (probably 2013).

    I think you might also need an app from the bank that issued your card, but I'm not sure. Rogers is staying tight-lipped, even after prodding on their blog and forums.
  10. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #10  
    NFC works for credit cards the same way, whether it's a chip on the card, a chip on a SIM, or your phone's "smart NFC."

    It transmits encrypted data to the transponder containing the same data that's on the magnetic strip of your credit card, and then the card is charged.

    On WP8 and Android, there's added security in that one needs to enter a PIN or passcode before the credit card (or debit card) data is released to NFC.

    With WP8, you can use any bank's credit or debit card, so long as it's a standard-issue Visa, Mastercard or Amex and the transponder at the retail point-of-sale follows the emerging standard and is NOT chip-n-PIN.

    Users in Europe and Japan are outta luck due to the awful chip-n-pin system in use over there, alas.
  11. chriscookz's Avatar
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    #11  
    I would love to see this grow. I'm looking forward to Wallet for things like tickets, but if I could eventually carry around only my license and a couple bills of cash, and keep all that extra plastic that takes up so much space in my physical wallet on my phone, that would be fantastic.
  12. pavvento's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by chriscookz View Post
    I would love to see this grow. I'm looking forward to Wallet for things like tickets, but if I could eventually carry around only my license and a couple bills of cash, and keep all that extra plastic that takes up so much space in my physical wallet on my phone, that would be fantastic.
    I really hope that Wallet grows and is supported by a lot of companies. I want to be able to add all of my gift cards, pre-paid cards, rewards cards, etc to my wallet so I don't need to carry them around with post-it notes of remaining balances!
  13. CSJr1's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Xsever View Post
    Can someone elaborate on this? The article does say carrier support is required, but it only mentions Orange as the carrier. Does this mean AT&T users will not be able to use the full functions of the wallet?
  14. tlegend2012's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by ebsn View Post
    Can someone elaborate on this? The article does say carrier support is required, but it only mentions Orange as the carrier. Does this mean AT&T users will not be able to use the full functions of the wallet?
    "We expect to have a solution with ISIS next year, but not at launch"thats what Joe Belfiore said.
  15. pavvento's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ebsn View Post
    Can someone elaborate on this? The article does say carrier support is required, but it only mentions Orange as the carrier. Does this mean AT&T users will not be able to use the full functions of the wallet?
    This is from the Windows Phone website:



    While every Windows Phone 8 has a Wallet Hub, not all support NFC transactions. The easiest way to check and see if your phone supports NFC transactions is to go to your Wallet settings. In Wallet, tap More More icon, and then tap Settings+PIN. If you don't see an option to turn on "NFC transactions," then your phone doesn't support it.

    At the moment, only a small number of mobile operators offer phones that support this feature. However, we're working hard to get additional mobile operators on board, and we expect the number of Windows Phones that support NFC transactions to grow.
  16. CSJr1's Avatar
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    #16  
    The site that XServer gave and the site below seem to suggest that the carrier (AT&T) needs to provide some kind of service to use NFC as a pay system.

    Nokia Lumia 920, windows 8 + NFC | nfc-phones.org

    However, pavvento's quoted source seems to suggest its the hardware on the phones that the carrier is offering. I called AT&T and the customer rep was clueless.

    Hopefully an AT&T user with a L920 can clear things up about NFC payments. I hope that is just based on hardware and not some future service we have to also rely upon from AT&T.
    Last edited by ebsn; 11-07-2012 at 03:08 PM.
  17. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by ebsn View Post
    I called AT&T and the customer rep was clueless.
    *collapses beside myself with shock* :D
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    NFC works for credit cards the same way, whether it's a chip on the card, a chip on a SIM, or your phone's "smart NFC."

    It transmits encrypted data to the transponder containing the same data that's on the magnetic strip of your credit card, and then the card is charged.

    On WP8 and Android, there's added security in that one needs to enter a PIN or passcode before the credit card (or debit card) data is released to NFC.

    With WP8, you can use any bank's credit or debit card, so long as it's a standard-issue Visa, Mastercard or Amex and the transponder at the retail point-of-sale follows the emerging standard and is NOT chip-n-PIN.

    Users in Europe and Japan are outta luck due to the awful chip-n-pin system in use over there, alas.
    Well this is what I expect but does that mean my NFC enabled VISA will work via the NFC WP8 on VISA enabled NFC terminals?

    What I'm getting at is since VISA NFC terminals already exist and are supported by the banks, and NFC enabled VISA cards already exist and are supported by the banks, can I just input the same credit card info into my Wallet App and use it to make an NFC payment?

    I know that the debit cards will not work because NFC is not supported for them in Canada yet, so Wallet cannot "hack" on that feature for it. This is where CIBC and Rogers have begun to allow this.
  19. pavvento's Avatar
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    #19  
    This is the tweet I got from WindowsPhoneSupport:

    @pavvento Some features of the Wallet Hub would be determined by the mobile operator like payment option through the phone. ^EB
  20. nicooke's Avatar
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    #20  
    The NFC payments require a secure element - this is located on the SIM for WP8, as opposed to the cloud/nfc chip on Android. I requested a new o2 sim with the secure element, but they have to enable the feature their end too - and possibly release an app to trigger it. I think o2 will have this in the UK end of 2012.
  21. CSJr1's Avatar
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    #21  
    Anyone with a new Lumia 920 has information if NFC tap-to-pay working with AT&T?
  22. rclifton's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by ebsn View Post
    Anyone with a new Lumia 920 has information if NFC tap-to-pay working with AT&T?
    It doesn't at the moment. I was looking forward to using the 920 for nfc purchases as well since I've been doing it on my S3 and Galaxy Nexus before it for about a year now. Sadly it looks like you need a special sim card and carrier support to get the same level of functionality from WP8's Wallet app. I'm pretty disappointed as the information really hasnt been put out there exactly what is needed and when it's coming etc..
  23. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #23  
    The whole ISIS thing has been a debacle that has slowed down adoption, unfortunately.
  24. #24  
    I've posted this in a few other threads, but thought I'd update it in here as well...

    I just picked up a Rogers SureTap SIM card (it's supposed to be a "Secure SIM") for my Lumia 1020 hoping it would enable the NFC Transactions option inside of the Wallet app. I just activated the SIM card, and unfortunately there is no option available inside of the wallet to enable "NFC Transactions".

    No luck!
  25. canadian1der's Avatar
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    #25  
    I just got my secure SIM card from T-Mobile (complete with Isis branding) and put it into my unlocked 1020 (an ATT version unfortunately), same story - there is no option for NFC payments visible in the wallet hub.

    I wonder if someone with an international Lumia would have a different result - i.e. not one that has been tampered with by a carrier?
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