[keizka]

OP being obvious troll here.

If OP had researched anything, he'd find out Lumia 920 commands a price of 600 euros in Europe (that being 768 dollars with today's rate), and 8X can be had for 550 euros (that's 705 dollars with today's rate).

So... Premium enough, or still not understanding subsidies?

[Old_Cus]

......so goes the entertainment for today :P

[wormy6]

OP being obvious troll here.

If OP had researched anything, he'd find out Lumia 920 commands a price of 600 euros in Europe (that being 768 dollars with today's rate), and 8X can be had for 550 euros (that's 705 dollars with today's rate).

So... Premium enough, or still not understanding subsidies?

Subsidies don't matter to the consumer. We go to the store, we see the iphone selling for $200-$400 with contract, we see windows phone going for $100 and $150 with contract. We look at devices and see one is the thinnest, they have equal power, its camera is arguably better (920 obviously takes it for night shots and video thou), the thinnest weighs less and is smaller, it also has the best battery power. It has better hardware... It cost more... it is the premium, and that plays a huge role in creating the brand.

[wormy6]

And again, I love the OS and the ecosystem, but we need to demand better hardware. That is what is missing here.

[Landsharkk]

wormy6 have you used a Windows Phone 7x device (or a Windows Phone 8 device)?

I don't think better hardware is going to do much, the OS is buttery smooth and extremely quick, on part if not faster than the iPhone and Android flagship phones.

I do understand that expensive can make people think it's better quality (cars are a good example here), but Microsoft with their Windows Phones are not in a position to price their phones near the same cost as the competition. With only 4% of the market those not already familiar with Windows Phone won't even bother looking at it if priced the same as an iPhone 5, for example.

They need to turn heads and pricing the Lumia 920 (for example) with a free wireless charging pad is going to turn some heads. That's arguably the first thing people notice when looking at phones - the price. Then they see 'new tech' with the wireless charging and will start to ask questions about it. From that point forward it's up to the salesperson or friend/word-of-mouth to make the final sale of the phone.

[zolgi]

Back when Windows Phone 7 looked pretty cool, everyone was saying how they were cheap because WP7 'didn't support the hardware' yet and that with WP8 we would get more powerful and premium phones.

So here comes WP8, and I read this...
AT&T Nokia Lumia 920 and HTC 8X Both A Steal At Just $100 - Mobile Magazine

$100 for the flagship WP8 phones? Where is a premium WP8 phone? WP8 is the best OS, but it will always be looked down on if it doesn't have a handset that can compete with apple and android's newest phones. The manufacturers really dropped the ball, in my opinion. Cheap phones can help WP8 gain marketshare but there needs to be premium phones too to help build the brand and hype.

I think HTC and nokia looked at the iphone and said: "If we make a $200 phone we won't be able to make it as small, as fast, light, or as good battery power as the iphone. Lets just go for the cheaper market so they can't compare our phones to premium ones."

I really hope we see a surface phone from microsoft. I don't think these other manufacturers have the tech or balls to release a phone thinner and more powerful than their competitors. Surface has already proven it can take on the ipad both spec and feature wise, and now it's going to have to do the mobile market too.

These are funny. $100 and you get a phone... In Finland EVERY phone is 0€.

[brmiller1976]

Well, OP has totally convinced me. We are doomed. I'm off to Sprint to pickup a Samsung Reclaim! :D

[wormy6]

I don't think better hardware is going to do much, the OS is buttery smooth and extremely quick, on part if not faster than the iPhone and Android flagship phones.

I do understand that expensive can make people think it's better quality (cars are a good example here), but Microsoft with their Windows Phones are not in a position to price their phones near the same cost as the competition. With only 4% of the market those not already familiar with Windows Phone won't even bother looking at it if priced the same as an iPhone 5, for example.

They need to turn heads and pricing the Lumia 920 (for example) with a free wireless charging pad is going to turn some heads. That's arguably the first thing people notice when looking at phones - the price. Then they see 'new tech' with the wireless charging and will start to ask questions about it. From that point forward it's up to the salesperson or friend/word-of-mouth to make the final sale of the phone.

I agree with everything you are saying. People do notice the price first, and a lower price will definitely steer the majority towards those devices, helping marketshare.

This does not detract from the key point I am making about it being important to have some really impressive WP8 devices:

Building a brand is also important, especially when people are first seeing a big new brand like WP8. Some people look at the prices, and they are looking for high end, expensive phones. A lot of the time these are the (shallow) people who are setting the example for the rest of society. These people are looking for hardware that they are comfortable with. Young women, especially ones who find themselves out at night without pockets or a purse (see: single, beautiful), look for the smallest, lightest high-end phone possible. Men go where the women are. Phones have become a status symbol the same way cars were decades ago. What are the 2 top clothing/accessories a woman uses to judge a man's appearance? Shoes & phone. Again, this is about branding not marketshare. It is not about how things should be, this is just how things are. This is how iSheep are born/how pop culture works. This is why advertising is always directed to 20-35 year olds; they steer the market.

And on a slightly more personal note, I am sick of seeing iphones beat android and wp devices on camera reviews across the net. Over and over. In more recent reviews, 8X pictures are blurry and desaturated compared to the iphone. Ugh! Why cant they get it right? I know the galaxy S3 and lumia 920 both have good cameras, and they are tempting. So large though.

[keizka]

My honest guess? Some of those reviewers don't know how to use two-stage camera button. I still remember vividly the Nokia N8 camera review by then Engadget writer Vlad Savov. It was beyond silly. He somehow managed to make the pictures look so bad that iP4 was competition to N8.

[Squachy]

Subsidies don't matter to the consumer. We go to the store, we see the iphone selling for $200-$400 with contract, we see windows phone going for $100 and $150 with contract. We look at devices and see one is the thinnest, they have equal power, its camera is arguably better (920 obviously takes it for night shots and video thou), the thinnest weighs less and is smaller, it also has the best battery power. It has better hardware... It cost more... it is the premium, and that plays a huge role in creating the brand.

you need to define your definition of 'premium'......

apple overprices everything because they CAN, everything they make costs more than non-apple products by 100-200. It has nothing to do with premium and everything to do with 'they can get away with it because theres people willing to pay for it'

you ever notice how a similar product to an apple product always costs way less than the apple product?

[mparker]

One other point to make about the subsidized price. With WP8 the carrier gets a slice of the app/music store revenue. I don't think this is the case with either android or iphone. Not sure how much it helps, but it sure gives the carriers an incentive to make WP a big hit, if only to give them leverage to force google and apple into the same sort of deal.

[brmiller1976]

So, if I understood OP's point correctly, the Pantech Breeze would be a premium phone if they sold if for $300 because it would then be expensive, thin and light? :D

[Winterfang]

I understand a little of TC's frustration, while the 8X and ATIV S are nice devices, once you compared them to the Note 2 and J Butterfly, they end up looking a bit Mid-ranged. The prices certainly reflect that.

I myself don't mind that as I'm waiting for the next batch of devices.

[wormy6]

That is sort of the situation I have put myself into, WinterFang. I went ahead and got a iphone 5, which is good device although I do not like the software nearly as much as windows phone software, and apple customer support is terrible and overpriced. I am happy enough with it though for now, and hopefully when it is time to get a new phone there will be a WP8 phone that has the 'wow' effect as far as thinness and weight goes. I have been reading about the WP8 phone with a aluminum exterior instead of plastic, which sounds pretty premium too, so that is nice.

[peacefulberry]

Though, this thread is older, I think the op misinterpreted the ad...the price advertised was not the retail value of the phone. Most phones in contact are subsidized...you pay less up front if you agree to a 2 yr or more contact with your carrier. It has nothing to do with the phones overall value.

The HTC 8x, Lumia 920, and Samsung Ativ s are all considered premium windows phone devices. In my opinion, "premium" means advanced features, not higher price. So, the advanced features of these phones include front facing cameras, advanced photographic lenses, turn by turn voice navigation, NFC, wireless charging, solid design build, and much more.

With that being said...if any of the abovementioned phones really were less than $200 as a retail, non-contract price, I don't think there would be any left in stock! Lol! They would still be premium phones with the best value in the entire smartphone market!

[jfa1]

indeed

[Coreldan]

I actually like the 920s weight a lot. I can't stand fe. Samsung Galaxy S3/4 that are so big yet so light. They feel as toys as a phone can barely feel. I do agree though that 920 has big dimensions for the screen size and that the space could've perhaps used better for a tad better screen, but that's a minor thing for me.

[Vb2012]

Not sure if trolling or one of the most ignorant people I have ever seen. Hardware wise the only phone that is more up to date is the nexus 4. Although that lacks 4G. I guess the iphone 5 is maybe slightly ahead in processor although lacks nfc. The htc 8x will have the best audio experience of any phone period. This is thanks to a built in amp (which causes the extra width). The 920 is extremely advanced in its camera and screen. In my opinion it is the most advanced in both these categories and the only phone that i know of with wireless charging. The price for this is due to heavy subsidies as it is an exclusive phone. The ativ s is actually an exact equivalent of the s3 spec wise (American version anyway). Not to mention thin + light does not say premium to me. I prefer a better looking phone that literally doubles as a hammer (have you seen that video). Each phone has compromises. The Lumia 920's is only it's size which I prefer. If you want a thin phone get the ativ s. I just hope with your thin and light 'premium' phones you have enough cash to replace them each time you drop it, or don't mind a thick and heavy not to mention ugly case.

ahh 920 also has Dolby so HTC x8 has competition the new 928 will have even better audio experience noobie :P

[agm353]

Price doesn't mean anything, I can make a $300 phone but that doesn't mean it is good or "premium".

[Geddeeee]

The supposed 'premium' Android devices (S4, HTC One) may have top spec hardware (they need to so Android doesn't lag. Still does though!!) are light and feel cheap. Drop one and it will disintegrate.

I would rather have the 920's weight and thickness, so I have a heavy weapon to use on snobby Android users.. LOL.
I have used the HTC One and S4 extensively and they are still the same dull Android experience as before. Nothing new, and STILL the annoying glitches even with all that horsepower.

Mobile phone users look down on WP users because most 'reviewers' are very, very biased toward what a phone looks like, and what hardware it contains. Particularly Android based devices. I like being in the WP minority. It imbues a smugness in me because I have a device that actually works quickly, looks and feels gorgeous, and I don't need 200 finger presses to get the job done.

Converted??? Definitely!!!!!