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  1. TJWINS's Avatar
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       #1  
    Hi Guys,
    I couldn't help but check out the radio specs of the WP8 phones destined for T-Mobile USA (Lumia 820, HTC 8X & 8S, and Samsung Ativ S). All of their spec sheets list the HSPA+ network bands as 850/900/1900/2100 MHz. It is known that in order to receive HSPA+ on T-Mobile BOTH the 1700MHz and the 2100MHz bands must be supported. We know that T-Mobile is refarming their 1900 PCS band to support 3G/HSPA+ in most markets. However, we still don't know which markets they are and when the rollout will be completed. It is rumored that the refarming will be completed by the end of 2012 with LTE implementation starting in 2013 but nothing has been announced yet regarding the completion of the refarm. I'm assuming since all of the WP8 Phones destined for T-Mobile are missing the 1700MHz band support, that the OEMs must know something we don't. I was thinking of making the switch to tmo in November but don't want to have a bad WP8 experience by not having HSPA+42. Please chime in with your thoughts.....
  2. Winterfang's Avatar
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    #2  
    They said is coming to T-mobile don't worry =).
  3. MAERSK's Avatar
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    #3  
    Don't worry TJWINS. The word on the street is, that T-Mobile's got you covered. I'm taking the plunge as well and getting a 920 and joining T-Mobo. :D
  4. TJWINS's Avatar
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       #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by MAERSK View Post
    Don't worry TJWINS. The word on the street is, that T-Mobile's got you covered. I'm taking the plunge as well and getting a 920 and joining T-Mobo. :D
    So you are gonna pay the nose bleed and buy a 920 unlocked? I guess you will make up the difference on the contract savings over the next 2 years. I also saw the spec sheet on the Galaxy Note II for tmo and it is also missing the 1700 MHz support so I'm feeling pretty good about 1900 MHz HSPA+ for T-Mobile this fall
  5. Garrett92C's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by MAERSK View Post
    Don't worry TJWINS. The word on the street is, that T-Mobile's got you covered. I'm taking the plunge as well and getting a 920 and joining T-Mobo. :D
    Are you sure that's a good idea? T-Mobile still has a lot of work to do for the refarm. Until they get it ready in your area, you'll be stuck with very slow speeds.
  6. TJWINS's Avatar
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       #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Garredow View Post
    Are you sure that's a good idea? T-Mobile still has a lot of work to do for the refarm. Until they get it ready in your area, you'll be stuck with very slow speeds.
    Well T-Mobile is launching their unlocked iphone promotion and I don't think they would do that if the network wasn't ready. Plus as I mentioned earlier....all of the new phones slated for T-Mobile support the 1900 MHz band for HSPA+. I hope the rollout will be complete by end of 2012. I expect so since the new WP8 phones are due in November.
    vp710 likes this.
  7. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #7  
    Even after T-Mo refarms, you'll be getting single-channel HSPA with a non-AWS device. That will be 3 megabits/second versus an average of 24 to 36 using a proper AWS HSPA+42 device like one of HTCs or Samsung's WP8 handsets made for T-Mo.

    The unlocked iPhone promo is strictly a value play for people who would otherwise get Sprint and their "slow-as-EDGE" 3G speeds. T-Mo isn't guaranteeing availability of HSPA for iOS devices on the 1900 MHz band.
  8. vp710's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Even after T-Mo refarms, you'll be getting single-channel HSPA with a non-AWS device. That will be 3 megabits/second versus an average of 24 to 36 using a proper AWS HSPA+42 device like one of HTCs or Samsung's WP8 handsets made for T-Mo.

    The unlocked iPhone promo is strictly a value play for people who would otherwise get Sprint and their "slow-as-EDGE" 3G speeds. T-Mo isn't guaranteeing availability of HSPA for iOS devices on the 1900 MHz band.
    But all these phones have the same kind of network support, no?
  9. TJWINS's Avatar
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       #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Even after T-Mo refarms, you'll be getting single-channel HSPA with a non-AWS device. That will be 3 megabits/second versus an average of 24 to 36 using a proper AWS HSPA+42 device like one of HTCs or Samsung's WP8 handsets made for T-Mo.

    The unlocked iPhone promo is strictly a value play for people who would otherwise get Sprint and their "slow-as-EDGE" 3G speeds. T-Mo isn't guaranteeing availability of HSPA for iOS devices on the 1900 MHz band.
    The HTC and Samsung WP8 devices made for T-mo support the same HSPA+ frequency bands as the iphone (850/900/1900/2100) and do not support the AWS (1700/2100) bands. There is no difference between the HTC 8X and the iphone 4S with regard to this subject. It was to the best of my knowledge that T-Mo was refarming to 1900 MHz to free up the AWS bands for LTE deployment and to allow more handsets to be compatible on the T-Mobile network. Spending $1.4B initially to supply 3mbits/s would be a stupid move on T-mo and I don't think that is their intention since iphone already gets 2G on the T-Mo network.
  10. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #10  
    No. T-Mobile's AWS network uses 1700/2100, while AT&T's uses 1900/2100.

    Historically, this has meant that 1900/2100 devices have run only on EDGE (2.5G on T-Mo), very slowly.

    T-Mobile is using a thin slice of 1900 MHz to emulate AT&T's 1900/2100 setup (which isn't supported by non-AWS/pentaband radios). As a result, 1900/2100 phones like the iPhone and 920 (as announced) will get 3G speeds for the first time on T-Mo.

    But T-Mo's 4G tech uses full-speed HSPA+42 -- three parallel "pipes" of HSPA+14 over AWS 1700/2100. It will always be much, much faster than single-channel HSPA over 1900/2100.

    T-Mo is also deploying LTE in 2013 (though the 8X is not expected to support it in its T-Mo incarnation). HSPA+42 gets similar speeds, but with higher latencies. Both LTE and HSPA+42 are vastly preferable to HSPA single-channel 3G on 1900/2100.

    Long story short -- an unlocked worldphone without 1700/2100 WILL work on T-Mo, but at super-slow EDGE speeds (if you're unlucky and not in a refarmed area) or mere 3G speeds. I'm not sure ANY device makes up for not having access to T-Mo's full AWS HSPA+ 4G speeds, so I'd go with an AWS device over a "worldphone" without AWS support.
  11. vp710's Avatar
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    #11  
    So some of these phones specifications must not be up to date then.
  12. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by TJWINS View Post
    The HTC and Samsung WP8 devices made for T-mo support the same HSPA+ frequency bands as the iphone (850/900/1900/2100) and do not support the AWS (1700/2100) bands.
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

    Any phone launched for T-Mobile USA will support AWS. Period. It's a base requirement for T-Mobile. T-Mo will NOT sell smartphones that lack AWS support.

    Every handset launched on T-Mo has been modified from the international version for AWS (or is pentaband). That includes Lumia 710, HTC Radar, HTC HD7, and Android handsets like the One X and GS III, all of which were modified by the manufacturer to work with 1700/2100.

    Any specs you're seeing in the 8X and ATIV announcements are for the "unlocked/international" handsets and have zero to do with the handsets specifically sold for T-Mo USA.
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  13. TJWINS's Avatar
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       #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by vp710 View Post
    So some of these phones specifications must not be up to date then.
    I guess not. Neither of the phones listed in my original post show support for 1700/2100 frequency bands which require HSPA+ on the AWS bands. Either one of two things is happening.....1) Either the specs are not updated or 2) T-Mobile is indeed refarming their HSPA+42 network to the 1900 MHz band since I don't think neither Nokia, Samsung, nor HTC would allow their flagship handsets to run on T-Mobile's 3G network. I'm thinking either the specs need updating or T-Mo promised the handset makers that the refarming would be completed at device launch. Something has to give....
  14. TJWINS's Avatar
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       #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

    Any phone launched for T-Mobile USA will support AWS. Period. It's a base requirement for T-Mobile. T-Mo will NOT sell smartphones that lack AWS support.

    Every handset launched on T-Mo has been modified from the international version for AWS (or is pentaband). That includes Lumia 710, HTC Radar, HTC HD7, and Android handsets like the One X and GS III, all of which were modified by the manufacturer to work with 1700/2100.

    Any specs you're seeing in the 8X and ATIV announcements are for the "unlocked/international" handsets and have zero to do with the handsets specifically sold for T-Mo USA.
    OK that makes sense but you would think the manufacturer's website would list all the bands which the device supports. I didn't know they would exclude frequency bands for specific carriers. So that would support my original theory that the spec sheets need updating...
  15. vp710's Avatar
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    #15  
    I don't understand why they don't release a global phone that has all network frequencies supported. They could at least do this by region (US, Europe, South America, Australia, China, etc).

    Sent from my Lumia 710 using Board Express
  16. alpinestars1z's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by vp710 View Post
    I don't understand why they don't release a global phone that has all network frequencies supported. They could at least do this by region (US, Europe, South America, Australia, China, etc).

    Sent from my Lumia 710 using Board Express
    I don't make phones, but I heard it's not that easy trying to cram a bunch of frequencies into one phone. Something to do with the antennas. And it doesn't get simpler, because it used to be only GSM/EDGE, then they added 3G so that's new frequencies, and now we're on LTE, with even more frequencies.

    And I thought that's what they do now, create phones for general regions with a some overlap in case you travel.
    Phone History (hopefully in order): Samsung SGH-D407 > AT&T (HTC) Tilt > Sony Ericsson W580 > Blackberry Curve 8900 > Sony Ericsson C901 > HTC Touch Pro 2 > Blackberry 9700 > iPhone 3GS > Motorola Defy > Blackberry 9650 > iPhone 4 > Nokia E71 > Dell Venue Pro > HTC Titan > HTC Titan II > Lumia 900 + Samsung Galaxy Exhibit > Nokia Lumia 920 + Nokia Lumia 521 + Motorola RAZR V3xx
    Last updated: 05/13/2013
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  17. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #17  
    Yep. Certain frequencies require certain antenna sizes, shapes and configurations to effectively receive and send signals. A phone with the "wrong" antenna shape for a particular frequency will drop calls, suffer from slow data speeds, and generally not perform well.
  18. TJWINS's Avatar
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       #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Garredow View Post
    Are you sure that's a good idea? T-Mobile still has a lot of work to do for the refarm. Until they get it ready in your area, you'll be stuck with very slow speeds.
    Rumor: AT&T looking to launch the Nokia Lumia 820, 920 on November 2nd | wpcentral | Windows Phone News, Forums, and Reviews

    According to Daniel in this article, both the Lumia 920 and 820 are pentaband phones so they would both work perfectly on T-Mobile if unlocked. I disagree with the fact that it is difficult to build many frequency support into a phone. All OEMs have to do is place pentaband chipsets into their phones instead of quad or triband radios. Phone makers such as Nokia have been making pentaband phones for years. I think this has more to do with carriers trying to force consumers into staying on their network and not jumping ship to cross carriers without the consumer having to purchase a new phone.
  19. Winterfang's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quick question.

    When will T-mobile's LTE start? No phone currently is ready for it right?
  20. Garrett92C's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by TJWINS View Post
    Rumor: AT&T looking to launch the Nokia Lumia 820, 920 on November 2nd | wpcentral | Windows Phone News, Forums, and Reviews

    According to Daniel in this article, both the Lumia 920 and 820 are pentaband phones so they would both work perfectly on T-Mobile if unlocked. I disagree with the fact that it is difficult to build many frequency support into a phone. All OEMs have to do is place pentaband chipsets into their phones instead of quad or triband radios. Phone makers such as Nokia have been making pentaband phones for years. I think this has more to do with carriers trying to force consumers into staying on their network and not jumping ship to cross carriers without the consumer having to purchase a new phone.
    Hmm. It seems that the article says that the chip set is able to support a pentaband radio but doesn't say that the Lumia actually uses one. It would be great if it did, but we need actual confirmation.

    -- Sent via mobile
  21. Mystictrust's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Even after T-Mo refarms, you'll be getting single-channel HSPA with a non-AWS device. That will be 3 megabits/second versus an average of 24 to 36 using a proper AWS HSPA+42 device like one of HTCs or Samsung's WP8 handsets made for T-Mo.

    The unlocked iPhone promo is strictly a value play for people who would otherwise get Sprint and their "slow-as-EDGE" 3G speeds. T-Mo isn't guaranteeing availability of HSPA for iOS devices on the 1900 MHz band.
    First of all, here's an IPhone running on T-Mobile in one of the areas where 1900 is working... it's not 3Mbps. Keep in mind that iPhone 4S has a max speed of HSPA 14.4:

    Everything I've read shows that T-Mobile is bringing their "4G HSPA+" network over to the 1900 PCS band to make room for LTE on the current AWS bands. It would be real dumb to try and move as many people as they can over to 1900 and throw aside all the work they've been doing with HSPA+42 and higher. Highly doubt T-Mobile is actually going to flaunt around a network refarm, entice unlocked phone owners (with their obvious focus on the iPhone), and then go ahead and give them slower speeds.

    We are going to make our network iPhone compatible. Weve got over a million customers on the iPhone now, my T-Mobile source said.

    It felt that a fully iPhone compatible network, offering HSPA+ 42/84 and eventually LTE speeds coupled with T-Mobile's much more affordable voice, messaging and data plans would entice users to bring their off contract or unlocked iPhones over.
    Source

    Also, directly from a T-Mobile press release - why would they advertise 70% faster speeds on their network versus AT&T?:
    In fact, were already starting to turn up 4G HSPA+ service in our 1900 MHz spectrum. With sites already live in cities like Seattle, Las Vegas, Washington DC and the New York metro area, dont be surprised to hear reports of iPhone speed sightings. We expect to have these improvements deployed in a large number of markets later this year.

    Our internal tests of unlocked iPhone 4S devices running over [u]4G (HSPA+) on our 1900 network[u] recorded on average 70% faster download speeds than iPhone 4S devices on AT&Ts network.
    Source
  22. Mystictrust's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Garredow View Post
    Hmm. It seems that the article says that the chip set is able to support a pentaband radio but doesn't say that the Lumia actually uses one. It would be great if it did, but we need actual confirmation.

    -- Sent via mobile
    Directly from Nokia about the Lumia 820/920: "Both phones will be available in select markets in pentaband LTE and HSPA+ variants later this year."

    If they indeed bring the T-Mobile AWS bands to the new Lumias as they did with the pentaband 808 Pureview, then nobody will have to worry about which markets are fully refarmed when unlocked Lumias are available for purchase. (Unless T-Mobile picks up both phones anyway)

    Source: Nokia Conversations : the official Nokia blog
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  23. #23  
    Please don't report posts unless they violate site rules. Anyway T-mobile will begin rolling out category 10 LTE over the AWS band in Q4 of this year and it will be complete complete and blanket their current HSPA+ AWS footprint by the end of 2013
  24. Garrett92C's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystictrust View Post
    Directly from Nokia about the Lumia 820/920: "Both phones will be available in select markets in pentaband LTE and HSPA+ variants later this year."

    If they indeed bring the T-Mobile AWS bands to the new Lumias as they did with the pentaband 808 Pureview, then nobody will have to worry about which markets are fully refarmed when unlocked Lumias are available for purchase. (Unless T-Mobile picks up both phones anyway)

    Source: Nokia Conversations : the official Nokia blog
    Ah, I didn't see that. Thanks for pointing it out. It would be perfect if the 920 has AWS since I'm a T-Mo user and still haven't decided between the 8X and 920. :)
  25. travisel's Avatar
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    #25  
    Im not happy about this but you mite be?

    The Samsung ATIV S has no LTE support!

    HSPA+ 42Mbps 850/900/1900/2100MHz
    EDGE/GPRS 850/900/1800/1900MHz

    ATIV S - Samsung ATIV

    LTE is next gen and if you are like me stuck in a 3 year plan you want the newest and greatest from now to 2015 eh?
    ATIV S is LIFE
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