- 08-03-2012, 05:19 PM #1
MS is dropping the ball when it comes to advertising its phone OS
I think the low market acceptance of WP is tied directly to MS thinking about marketing / advertising. Without a change in thinking MS might be making the same mistake over again with WP8 so that people like mer will be saying wait until WP9
I am not sure about the politics involved or egos but whoever made the choice to brand the phone's OS using the Windows tag should be released, re-assigned or demoted. The Windows brand is not cool enough in the 'consumer' world and it might actually be a reason why the phone is not taking off ( reminds me how the Marketing folks wanted to use the Windows brand instead of XBox)
Consumers don't love the Windows brand anymore ( now in the corporate world it has meaning and value ) thanks to the Dells , Compaqs and HP of the world. So quit trying to leverage the Windows brand for consumer devices. Now Windows 95...people loved that product and stood in long lines for it
I think its too late to change the name for the OS but man that really have to stop using the name windows for non-windows product. Windows Live Mail, Window CE, Windows Live and etc...just stop it
I don't get the MS advertising thinking with consumers. I mean the Olympics are going on and people are talking about the Apple ads, but where are the Windows Phone ads? Does MS advertise during the Super Bowl? They certainly have enough money to pay the outrageous ads fees for it but they don't ( at least I cant remember ).
I have had several Zune players and again, MS under advertised for a better product. Where were the commercials during the Superbowl, Grammy and etc. What good is a product if nobody knows about it? Why are they leaving the advertising to the OEM? It's your product and name on the phone too? So advertise advertise and advertise!
I am reading the Apple vs Samsung trial and 2 things stood out to me from Phil Schiller.
Problem #1 The best way to turn people on to the iPhone was to have them use it.
So how did they do it? In their commercials they walked through each feature explaing to the listener why they needed this device.
Problem #2 The iPad presented another challenge: showing customers why they would need one.
So in their commericals they created a reason why you might want a tablet device like an iPad in your life.
Where are the ads from MS showing the reasons why a user should choose WP over iOS / Android. If they cant convey why WP should be chosen over the others then they will continue to have low market share / demand. MS...tell me why I should choose your product over another competing product. What are the advantages?
MS...not nokia, htc or samsung, should run their own commercials walking through the features their phones have so people would want them. The 'Really' commercial were totally ineffective in getting that message across.
MS Tell was out before Siri but who knew
Social integration and ease of use was out before iOS Twitter
People hub was out before Andorid's People app but who knew.
MS tell people that if they loser their phones they can quickly recover photos and contacts if they had your phone. ( I laugh everytime someone on facebook writes "Lost my phone, everyone inbox me your numbers as I lost all of them ) I have had two Samsung Focus and 1 lumia and getting back up and running was quick and easy. ( now I do wish the remembered your phone settings and text messaging )
They should run a 5 different commercials where they highlight the features in their phone.
Make sure the phone ads convey the right messages and not just use fancy buzz words...explaining to them what each feature means.
A while back the cloud was the cool new buzzword but someone at MS just had to use it in their commericals even when it didn't make sense
So here we have a problem where a family wants family photos taken but eveyone is acting all nutty. To fix the problem an end user would just need to edit out the bad parts of the photo...voila problem solved! Was the message of 'use our photo app to save your family pictures' conveyed? Nope, they talked about the cloud and the disconnect begins.
How is the cloud applicable in this commercial? All the particpants in the commerical are in the same room + the advantages of the cloud are not even used in the commerical. With cloud services I can get my data anytime at any place, but this commerical just highlight the editing ability of a software package.
Instead of dumping money into their online services unit they should just redirect the funds to advertising the heck out of their phone OS.
the WP came out in late 2010 and just yesterday my cousin-in-law saw my phone and was wondering what it was as she had never seen a windows phone....thats a problem.
Hype has not been generated
08-03-2012, 05:22 PM #2
- 1,481 Posts
well. It's very likely that MS will advertise Windows 8 and Wp8 at fall or spring for me. Verizon, AT&T, T-mobile and Nokia are advertising the **** into it. you'll se tones of adds on Windows 8 and Wp8!Xbox Music. Xbox 360, Windows 8 and Windows Phone
Samsung Ativ S
Nokia Lumia 1020
Surface Pro 2
Lenovo Thinkpad Yoga
Xbox Account: SocialDanny123
Lived in LA USA now moved to Auckland New Zealand :-)
Going to Work at Microsoft HQ next year as User experience design team. Wish me luck :D
08-03-2012, 07:10 PM #3
- 1,361 Posts
There is no wait for wp9 because they are integrating all the devices now. So any advertisement for their Windows 8 OS will indirectly advertise for their devices such as Surface, xbox, and Windows phone. Especially when smartglass is released, their message will be about cross-device integration.
If wp8 fails, then so be it, it wont be due to lack of advertising like wp7.
- 08-06-2012, 01:48 PM #4
I am not sure if piggy-backing on Windows 8 will be the correct choice. I maybe wrong and time will tell the truth.
"You know that Dell / HP / Compact Windows PC that came with a lot of trial software, and the poor customer services and required Best Buy Geek-Squad to fix and get running for you...well guess what we are bringing that same experience to a phone?
The Dell / HP / Compact / Gateway and etc have done a lot to tarnish the Windows brand...which is why MS has created the signature series PC line as well as introducing HW that meets their design standards.
Perhaps the brand can be resurrected.
- 08-06-2012, 02:11 PM #5
*disclaimer: i do not have a marketing background what so ever, nor do I know the principles of marketing or marketing 101 or even read a book on marketing
I wondered why this ad campaign was ineffective and this is what I came up with
1) It never identified what was so 'frustrating' with the listener's current phone. It needed to link a single point of frustration w/iOS or Android and explained how WP would solve the problem
2) Its starts off by telling people that if you owned a phone in the last 5 yrs that you were a beta tester. Major disconnect because there are a lot of phone buyers who are really happy with their phones! I liken it to somebody telling me that my current car is just a test car...I say so what...I am happy with it and it works for me!
There's a song out there that says "If loving you is wrong...I don't wanna be right!" some people are perfectly content with their Beta phone unless you start targeting whats wrong with their phone.
MS WP8 adds must resonate with the users so that they say or think..."Yeah, I do get tired of that....or I wish my phone had that....or that would solve my problem"
I think the linkage to Window 8 desktop will only help IT departments and business folks who rely upon word, excel or powerpoint docs. That works if the alternatives on iOS/Androids are ineffective.
- 08-06-2012, 02:15 PM #6
Bam...right into the people hub?
So AT&T created(?) a commercial for lumia 900/ WP and they talk about the people hub so that 'Megan' can see that Colin has lotsa of friends...BUT THEN THEY NEVER SHOW THE PEOPLE HUB!
I think the people hub is a great feature on WP but few people know about this feature.
This is why I think MS needs to 'surface' the OEM commercials and take on the responsibilities themselves.
AT&T was rightfully advertising stuff for their business and not WP
- 08-06-2012, 02:25 PM #7
I am NOT SAYING MS should copy or mimic Apple advertisement approach as I know there are many different ways to 'Skin A Cat'
But look how they show off their products versus MS approach
The tag line is..."Windows Phones, the phone to save us from our phone" Who wanted to be saved from staring at their phones at every moment. I know I don't I love my phone.
p.s. I did think the commercial was funny though as I have seen some of these in real life....cept for my wife didn't throw the pillow at me
08-06-2012, 04:58 PM #8
- 1,893 Posts
Second, they are deliberately trying to tie the Phone OS to Windows 8 and the tablet OS. Similar Live Tile interface, interoperability. If they called it XBox Super Duper Phone or something, you don't really get that implied interoperability.
The reason Windows Phone's haven't been selling has WAY more to do with the fact that they came way late to the game, iOS and Android had a massive lead and the fact that they are virtually unadvertised, not promoted etc. and all there was until recently was some boring Android re-tread phones that sat in the back of the store under a layer of dust.
Once they started advertising the crap out of the Lumia 900 and made it in interesting looking phone with prominent in-store displays, what happened? Surprise surprise, they broke all the Windows Phone sales records. People didn't look at the Lumia 900 and then say "Oh no, it has the word Windows on it, never mind"
I acknowledge it's a factor, but it's a very small one hardly worth mentioning. This is coming from some one who has hated Microsoft and Windows for decades. Windows Phone and Windows 7 are actually the things that turned that around for me.
The only people who are probably going to cringe at "Windows" on their phone are hard core Mac users who are going to buy iPhones anyway.
FWIW, I am also primarily a Mac user, and I STILL did not shy away from Windows Phone at all.
Aside from that, MS should open their war chest and make some money available for OEM's to advertise their new WP8 handsets, with the OS prominently featured in the ad.
The same thing would work for Windows Phone, but simply copying Apple's style would be a mistake. Especially since Microsoft's product is the OS, not the phone.
The WP OEM's need to carry most of the water here in television advertising. They need to differentiate their WP8 phones from everything else.
Lots of people are tired of Android and iOS and would welcome something different. They just need to be told it's OK and to be shown cool people doing it, so they think, ah I'm as cool as him/her, so I can switch to that Nokia/HTC/Samsung Windows Phone too and I'll be chic and cool.
As far as Microsoft's advertising for Windows Phone:
What I would do is not be afraid to be controversial. Portray Android as confusing and buggy, portray iOS as passé and elitist and for empty-headed trend followers. Exaggerate those points.
Go for the jugular. If you don't, no one will notice your commercials and no one will talk about then.
Imagine if Microsoft started running just a few snarky ads showing people getting pissed off with Androids and snooty types using iPhones, and then panning to show some cool cucumber using a Windows Phone with ease and calm and getting on with their life.
Then again, I could be wrong. I thought this ad campaign was brilliant and it REALLY spoke to me in a profound way, but it didn't seem to reach that many people. Maybe it was too soon?
The recent Siri ads featuring celebrities are one example of actually demonstrating a feature, but again, they simply show you someone using it, they don't explain what it is or try to define it or list details.
Explaining pros and cons isn't going to work. You get on the screen and say "You should choose WP because it's over 20% faster to ad a contact and post to twitter versus iPhone" or some stupid pro and con like that and you loose your audience immediately.
Direct comparisons with the competition is an act of desperation and it's unsophisticated. Even American automakers have finally walked away from that failed approach after years of beating the dead horse. "The Dodge Neon is $1299 cheaper MSRP than the Honda Civic and has 8 more horsepower" Guess what? No one cares. They already perceive the Civic as the better car and they know their friends will respect them more for driving it. No one care about details.
So what do they need to do?
Portray Windows Phone as DIFFERENT.
Everyone in this short attention span, constantly trying to be hip culture wants to be DIFFERENT.
That's Apple's greatest weakness right now really, the iPhone is dangerously close to crossing the line of no return when it comes to being passé. It's not different anymore. It's not unique, it's ubiquitous.
And Android is simply without a strong identity in the mind of the general consumer. It had one very briefly with the Droid ad campaign, and that was extremely successful.
That is what they need to so with Windows Phone. Forge a strong identity for it. People don't need to be told about features. They don't give a ****. They need to be told WHO this phone is for and it needs to be for the kind of person they imagine themselves to be, or what they aspire to be.
With the Droid, Motorola and Verizon made a clear differentiation between it and the iPhone. They didn't list features. They built an IMAGE. They said "This is the technological phone" "This is a big, masculine, machine-like phone for people not afraid of technology"
Thats why most people bought them. It had much less to do with the real differences. Truthfully Droids were crap, especially the first ones. Doesn't matter. They were DIFFERENT and people were hungry for different. They still are.
One thing is for sure, dry commercials explaining phone OS features in detail will generate zero hype.
What generates hype is doing something DIFFERENT and UNEXPECTED.
So if Microsoft is going to run ads for Windows Phone, they need to be ads that are going to make people stop and go WHOA, that was a MICROSOFT AD???
Honestly, I hear people say the "Really?" ad wasn't effective, yet here we are talking about a commercial that was hardly aired at all, TWO years later.
I think it's a brilliant commercial. It keeps your attention the entire time. It's DIFFERENT and it shows you that Windows Phone is different.
It got my attention, even now if I watch it, I have to watch it a few times in a row because I enjoy it so much. How many commercials have that effect.
Microsoft needs more ads like that, but they actually need to RUN them. RUN them like the stupid IE9 ad I keep seeing with the dub step music. Run them 10x as much as those.
Make the ads CLEVER and different and just show people enough to get them talking and asking questions. That's all you need to do. You don't have to outline a 3 page diagram on every feature that's great in Windows Phone. Again, no one cares. You need to get them in the STORE and asking to see the phone. That's when they find those things out and make their decision. Not in the TV commercial that's in the way of the them watching their TV program.
08-06-2012, 08:57 PM #9
- 1,794 Posts
Wow. This is a good thread.
First off, the whole "it shouldn't have been Windows Phones" naming argument is moot at this point, and also not logical considering the idea of the ecosystem MS is building. With the exception of XBOX and Office, the Windows name puts all of their ecosytem under one name. It just makes sense.
However, I do agree with most of the points. Both the "phone to save us from our phones" and the "beta test" commercials succeded on one point while failing at the other. The first is bring out an emotion. That is why humor, puppies, and children are used so much in comercials. If you can make them laugh, you have their attention. If you get them to go "awwww.. that is cute!!" You have their attention. Why did the "Imported from Detroit" Chrysler ad single handedly put their company back on track? It nailed the "pride in America, we can rebuild" emotion. WP 7 commercials did bring out humor.
Problem is, the chuckle wasn't enough. Nothing satisfied the bigger need: It didn't sell the devices. Another thing that Chrysler ad did well was make the car look GREAT!! So far, WP has not looked great. They haven't shown any of the great features, the ease of use, the strengths of our OS.
That is on Microsoft. They need to push the OS. They need to introduce the public to the new, fun way the devices work. The "Smoked by a Windows Phone" tour was a great start, and should be the idea behind a great set of messages. Then manufacturers can just sell their hardware or exclusives, and the public will know the advantages of the OS.I find your lack of faith disturbing. - Darth Vader
08-06-2012, 10:15 PM #10
- 263 Posts
The marketing push is coming. I know someone who works for a large marketing firm that deals with web awareness, TV, radio, etc including pushing items at retail. I don't know what the campaign will look like or the focus, but I spoke to him one time over coffee about my preference for Windows Phone and excitement over Windows Phone 8 (he has a Moto Droid 3) and he told me that they've been working on a big product push with Microsoft, phone manufacturers, carriers, and retailers. This was before MS' WP8 announcement and before the Surface announcement as well.
This company also worked with Verizon on their Droid push and he said that this is much bigger JUST on Verizon's end. Apparently there's a pretty big push planned at the big boxes for Christmas - Target, Walmart, Best Buy, etc.
But it sounded like Microsoft is pulling out the stops for the Windows Phone 8 launch, just like they will for Windows 8 proper.
Windows Everywhere is MS' big play. It's all hands on deck for them this Fall. They are finally going to flex their muscles - and we'll have to see how it goes.
My feeling is that once people get their hands on a Windows Phone, they won't want anything else. Windows 8 will take more getting used to, but a few weeks using it and Windows 7 feels old. Live Tiles are the future.
08-07-2012, 07:17 AM #12
- 2,121 Posts
There is no message as far as the average person is concerned. Today I was asked by the SO what I think about the "Samsung galaxy" and that she liked it, and this from someone who has shown no interest in any of my WP devices that I have owned since December 2010. The power of advertising. Fact is WP does not exist for millions of people and until you get the average person to actually acknowledge it exists it won't get very far.
Last edited by theefman; 08-07-2012 at 07:22 AM.
08-07-2012, 09:26 AM #13
- 755 Posts
Sometimes I'm lead to believe that there is a serious disconnect between strategist and the real world. People want examples of how a device can be as useful or more useful than the next. Most of the WP commercials don't show that. But in my eyes, it's obvious what though should show. Set up a scenario where your WP device will "smoke" another device with it's simple tasks. This could bolster some type of interest and they could make a few more sales in probably snowball the industry in a few years.
- 08-07-2012, 09:51 AM #14
You made some very good points that made me re-think some things...and thats a good thing!
- MS is in this position because of they were late to game. If they had an answer in 2008 or even Jan, 2009 this discussion would not be happening
- Not having a push from Verizon and Sprint is hurting them. Combined they control 47% of the US market
- Not having geeks, techs and early adopters buying their phone is hurting them. I believe this group is caught up in the spec wars and having an OS that couldn't handle multiple cores, resolution, ram and SD cards didn't help. I know the offical explaination was that it didn't those specs
I agree w/you about the cool/unique factor of the iPhone wearing out. My own wife complains a lot about how everyone has an iPhone now...even old ladies ( she says ) She doesn't think she special anymore...and I agree with her. When 13yrs old kids have the same phone as you...you are not hip/trendy/or cool anymore. Unfortunately, being unique and different is important to a lot of people...including moi! Apple needs to make a phone that is above the normal phone so that people can say "Oh! you go the iPhone Pro...wish I had that phone"
I do believe that the Windows brand is not helping matters...but I don't think it will kill a product either. As a test, play a word association game and say "Microsoft Windows" and see what answers you get. Now I know the typically smart **** person at a party will try to get a chuckle but play it with a non-smart-**** person and see what they say.
My sampling size is small...well,okay its not even on the radar map! I was bragging about my phone to my counsin-in-law and told her about my Windows phone and her response was "ehh...a windows phone?" disclaimer she is a graphic designer and probably has been on Macs her whole life but I would not describe her as an Apple-Head / Fanboi. Anyway, so when she actually SAW the phone, she was like "Oh thats cool...I want that phone" To me thats a failure when there are people out there who don't even know what your product is, especially when it came out in Nov, 2010.
I agree with 'snowmutt' though that re-branding Windows Phone is not going to happen as that ship has sailed.
When I talked about commericals and features I never pictured the commericals being dry and boring with a bunch of bullet points. I thought the iPhone Siri commerical were effective because it talked about a phones features indirectly. The Siri feature is unique for the iPhone and their commercials drew attention to it. I think(?) google had voice commands before Siri and MS TellMe was working before iPhone but their unique features wasnt highlighted.
Believe it or not, I wanted to buy a Ford car just because it had the Ford Sync feature. It wasn't dry or boring, it just showed a feature in a common sense way. Of course this was back in 2007 when it was cool and nobody had it.
This is what I was talking about when I mentioned commericals that talked about feature(s).
I do believe that ( in general ) that repetition will make up for a lot of wrongs. As bad as the original droid ads were ( my opinion only ) they were quite effective and they were EVERYWHERE ( us markets ) Whatever MS directions is taking, they need to saturate every market with their ads
ex. this commercial did grab my attention as it built excitement.
SUPER BOWL(us centric view )
The Super Bowl is watched by millions of people and MS has the funds to make a 30sec or even 60sec clip that rates in the top 10 commerical for the best ads on the following Monday. I know personally that people watch the game just for the commercials and rating and then facebook-ing about the good or dumb ones.
Make the commercial funny, wierd, offensive or whatever just have people talking about it on twitter, fb or the morning news shows Don't make a Super Bowl commercial just to be blah.
In the Apple vs Samsung trial, Phil Schiller talked about how they (Apple) needed products that had the 'Lust' factor so that focused in on making their products Lust Worthy. Whether its HTC, Samsung or Nokia...the WP8 OEM need to have a product that makes people drool and haul out their credit cards. Having a 3million+ pre-orders would be nice.
I believe that Nokia failed to highlight one advantage of their phones...the polycarbonate shell. To me...this is a differentiator(sp?). Even if I drop my blue Lumia 900, it will still look the same as its blue all the way through. I am sure someone could create a funny, humorous commercial that highlight the fact that you could cut the phone with a pairing knife and it would still be blue...or that your phone didnt need a case
The goal is to get people talking about your product so lets see what MS will do! Eitherway, I am still happy with my samsung focus / lumia 900
Blast From the Past
- 08-27-2012, 05:14 PM #16
Been thinking some more and this was initiated by the rumor that Apple is holding a separate event for the release of their iPhone and iPad 'Mini'
MS and its partners not only have to convey the right message but I think that executing in a timely manner is so important w/respect to users and media mind-share.
I am not sure what MS or Nokia will gain by announcing product that users will not be available to purchase with in 1-2 weeks. Do they think this will cause user to hesitate on buying competitor products during that time?
Perhaps it will, but I doubt it because in this market Apple Buzz is quite strong and 'me' thinks it will drown out any positive buzz Nokia/MS will produce because they cant get their products in users hands as fast as Apple can.
With Apple as the primary competitor, I believe MS has to announce and have available products as quickly as Apple can. I know every holiday season Apple gets free advertisement b/c some local newscaster will have a segment about the hottest toy/gadget for parents and Apple products always gets their free plug. MS/Nokia will have to become the buzz item...they need momentum.
Anyway, look at these dates and you tell me if you see anything wrong with this picture:
Jan 2012 Nokia Announces Lumia 900
April, User can hold Lumia 900 in their hands
June 18 MS Announces Surface Tablet/slate
Sept 5 Nokia/MS Press Conference
Sept 12 Apple announces next Gen iPhone
Sept (last week) Apple says you can have next gen iPhone in your hand
Oct (first week) Apple announces new iPad *rumor
Oct (first week) User can have the new iPad mini in their hands*rumor
Oct 26, Users can have Surface tablet in their hands
Oct ( last week ) User can finally get Nokia phones mentioned last 45+ days ago
- 08-28-2012, 02:19 PM #18
Hey..though I understand your grouse about advertising by MS, let me give you some perspective about advertising itself. I am a copywriter and I did find this thread interesting to begin with.
That said, I want to tell you something, an insight into how a client, (in this case MS) works.
A. They all want their product to look different.
B. They ask us (the agency) to do it just like their competition.
Contrasting? There is more.
Predicting if an ad will work is the same as predicting which side the coin will fall on when you have tossed it and is in mid-air. It is anyone's guess.
I have been in advertising for the last 5 years and written commercials myself. Believe me, milking a cow is easier than pleasing all the heads in the room.
There are close to about 4-5 people in your own agency you have to please. Then all that is taken to the client (again, MS in this case) and presented to them. There, if its your lucky day, 3 out of 10 will like it. DO i need to mention what happens in you are having a bad day?
Believe me, there are various rounds in making a commercial.
Quick low down on how an ad is made:
1. The client decides this is what I want to speak about this time
2. A brief is formulated for the ad agency
3. It comes to the agency and creative work begins
4. Routes are finalized (Usually 2-4)
5. Presented to the client
6. They sit over it for a week (or two) (give us changes if any)
7. Finally decide on the route and thus a new campaign is born
8. Work starts on it finally - FOr the TVC, a production house/director is hired
9. Ad film is shot
10. Shown to the client and they approve it
11. It sees light of day and that means you see it on TV
Contrary to what you said, I like the "really" commercial as it spells out why WP should be yours.
Aggressive advertising?? Absolutely...its need of the day. LIke socialcarpet said, commercials are all talking down to the end users. WHY?? The clients fear that a creative ad will confuse people and they won't buy their product. BULLOCKS I SAY.
People are far more intelligent than they think. If you are lying, they will know it in a min...
They just need to harp on something that ONLY they have. Believe me, if your product is good..even a bad commercial will do wonders.
But if your product is crap, worlds best agency + best director can't save it from the wrath of people's ignorance...
Last edited by XENOPHOS; 08-29-2012 at 09:53 AM.
- 09-19-2012, 02:11 PM #22
The Next Big Thing is Already Here -- Samsung Galaxy S III
subtle poke at iPhones now being associated with Mother/Father...i.e not cool anymore.
Otherwise...the lil' digs & pokes drives home the point that iPhone will have the features next year.
I think Samsung needs to concentrate on the under 18 crowd as they are more prone to buying things that are cool (not everyone but the majority) as they are overly concerned with being cool and getting attention.
I remember a line in the movies "The Incredible" where dash mutters the word "Which is another way of saying no one is." after hearing his mom say "Everyone is special"
Likewise, if everyone has an iPhone then it can no longer be cool anymore. My insider 13yr old refuses to signup for fb/twitter because they were 'like' cool 2 years ago...plus my parents are on them.
- 09-19-2012, 02:23 PM #23
I agree, throwing dollars around is not the solution.
09-19-2012, 02:34 PM #24
- 2,092 Posts
Advertising isn't as effective at generating demand as it is in building name recognition. What builds demand is word of mouth.
Apple didn't sell a bajillion iPhones with ads showing it off. Rather, people saw others with them who raved about them AND saw the ads and made the connection.
- 09-19-2012, 02:34 PM #25
Advertising only helps when you've caught the nerve of the public...and more the merrier...there have been instances where great ads have sold hopeless products and vice versa...but all u have to focus on is ur Target audience...
Sent from my DROID RaZr HD.