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  1. gedmurphy's Avatar
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       #1  
    As we know, one of the main blockers for app developers to bring existing software to WP is portability. As the current WP development environment doesn't allow native code to run, getting apps onto our platform requires a rewrite. This is especially true in the gaming world where we don't get games that are easily ported across iOS and Android.

    As WP8 will have support for native code, it makes porting existing iOS and Android apps much easier, meaning all the big titles will likely be native based for code re-usability.

    So, what does this mean for WP7 owners? Does this mean they'll be locked out of all the top apps because they'll be ports of iOS and Android code bases?

    You have to wonder why Zynga is suddenly bringing Words with Friends and DrawSomething to WP. It makes me think they'll be native ports and therefore not accessible to WP7 users.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by gedmurphy; 06-28-2012 at 05:37 PM.
  2. lolken's Avatar
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    #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by gedmurphy View Post
    As we know, one of the main blockers for app developers to bring existing software to WP is portability. As current the WP development environment doesn't allow native code to run, getting apps onto our platform requires a rewrite. This is especially true in the gaming world where we don't get games that are easily ported across iOS and Android.

    As WP8 will have support for native code, it makes porting existing iOS and Android apps much easier, meaning all the big titles will likely be native based for code re-usability.

    So, what does this mean for WP7 owners? Does this mean they'll be locked out of all the top apps because they'll be ports of iOS and Android code bases?

    You have to wonder why Zynga is suddenly bringing Words with Friends and DrawSomething to WP. It makes me think they'll be native ports and therefore not accessible to WP7 users.

    Thoughts?
    I heard they would be out before the fall (ben the PC guy said it somewhere i think, but don't quote me)... which means they will run on WP7.
  3. jdevenberg's Avatar
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    #3  
    The Zynga games will be on wp7 as per the announcement at the Summit. Any ports that use Native code will not run on wp7 because wp7 won't support native code. So yes we will be locked out. 7.8 will most likely only bring the start screen that is all they previewed at the summit and the only thing mentioned in the new leaked AT&T document. Anyone saying that 7.8 will be more than a start screen is speculating, and the evidence so far points against it.
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  4. KingCrimson's Avatar
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    #4  
    Microsoft should pay for every app port from Silverlight-->WinRT.
  5. jdevenberg's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by KingCrimson View Post
    Microsoft should pay for every app port from Silverlight-->WinRT.
    Why? The current silverlight based apps will still run on Windows Phone 8. You don't HAVE to convert. WinRT apps will not run on WP7.

    Why do you even come back here? You were very excited about Windows Phone, then decided you hated it. Now you come back every so often to troll.
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  6. rbrunner's Avatar
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by gedmurphy View Post
    As WP8 will have support for native code, it makes porting existing iOS and Android apps much easier, meaning all the big titles will likely be native based for code re-usability.
    That's too simple. "Native" isn't a magic keyword that suddenly makes apps largely portable between WP, iOS and Android.

    As far as I know, native programs are still the exception on Android, and your average app is built in Java. iOS is normally Objective-C, and now on WP8 you will have free choice between C# and several languages (but probably most often C++ anyway) as languages and Silverlight and WinRT for programming your user interface.

    Where "native" can indeed help a lot is in the area of games where you work with big frameworks and "engines" like Unity that need native access. They will probably come to WP8 and enable much more and better games there.

    So the situation is complicated and multi-faceted. I guess that this leads to a rather long transition period instead of an abrupt halt of WP7-compatible Silverlight based app development, with many new and interesting apps appearing that still run on WP7, but on the other hand of course, as the months pass, more and more apps that only run on WP8.

    I really don't understand the extent of "freaking-out" that some people display: There are exactly zero WP8 phones in the hands of customers right now, and it will take many months until they will outnumber WP7, so why on earth I as a developer should drop all WP7 development right now? What will I eat between now and say, summer 2013, when sales numbers of my WP8 app will finally start to pick up? :)
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  7. KingCrimson's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by rbrunner View Post
    I really don't understand the extent of "freaking-out" that some people display: There are exactly zero WP8 phones in the hands of customers right now, and it will take many months until they will outnumber WP7, so why on earth I as a developer should drop all WP7 development right now? What will I eat between now and say, summer 2013, when sales numbers of my WP8 app will finally start to pick up? :)
    So by that logic, we will see almost *no* WP8 apps.
  8. vp710's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by KingCrimson View Post
    So by that logic, we will see almost *no* WP8 apps.
    No apps coded specifically and only for WP8? Probably not.
  9. SnailUK's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by rbrunner View Post
    I really don't understand the extent of "freaking-out" that some people display: There are exactly zero WP8 phones in the hands of customers right now, and it will take many months until they will outnumber WP7, so why on earth I as a developer should drop all WP7 development right now? What will I eat between now and say, summer 2013, when sales numbers of my WP8 app will finally start to pick up? :)
    Whilst i almost agree, you are missing one VERY BIG factor.

    The biggest reason for all the work on WP8, is that it shares an awful lot with Windows 8 and Xbox. They've made lots of noise about being able to make very few changes to move between platforms for your app.

    Not sure about xbox using apps, but Windows users will be dying for useful apps, and i'm sure it won't take long for Windows users to eclipse WP7 users.
  10. rbrunner's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnailUK View Post
    Not sure about xbox using apps, but Windows users will be dying for useful apps, and i'm sure it won't take long for Windows users to eclipse WP7 users.
    Windows users dying for useful apps? I am a Windows user (XP and 7), and I am already drowning in apps, thank you very much.

    You probably mean Metro apps for Windows RT based tablets. Well, yes, maybe, but then maybe not. Why should I already treat it as a given that Windows RT tablets will prosper where until now various Android tablets had a very hard time against the iPad?

    Or that devs really start to code Metro apps for "normal" desktop PCs in significant numbers (and users accepting them) instead of traditional Windows apps? And then speculate further that this will generate a large market for such apps, within a reasonable time frame at that? And on top of all that this all really hastens WP7 death?

    And because of all this speculation, I absolutely have to start worry big time right now? Oh well...
  11. SnailUK's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by rbrunner View Post
    Windows users dying for useful apps? I am a Windows user (XP and 7), and I am already drowning in apps, thank you very much.
    When i first got my iphone, and WP7, one of the first things i did, was go looking through the apps stores, looking for interesting apps/games.

    When i was lent the works Android development tablet, first thing i did was going browsing the app store.

    When i first got the Windows 8 preview build, first thing i did, yep you guessed it, go looking through the apps store.

    In my mind, now is a great time to write Windows 8 apps, but being that the big name apps still aren't coming to WP7, the writing is potentially on the wall for WP7 (unless Microsoft expand on WP7.8), i don't think people will think of the WP7 crowd particuarly for new apps.

    Thats a brilliant opportunity for developers like yourself who have love for WP7. Just means more work later on, when you update all your apps properly for WP8/W8/xbox/etc.
  12. mparker's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by gedmurphy View Post
    Does this mean they'll be locked out of all the top apps because they'll be ports of iOS and Android code bases?
    How will this be any different? WP7 has always been locked out of the top apps.
  13. Big Supes's Avatar
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    #13  
    My biggest concern is that Wp8 will have a chunk of ported apps that won't be Metro... even worse... they'll be Android UI. Can someone shed any light on this please?
    Google - "Don't be evil. . . much!"
  14. MrBurrrns's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Supes View Post
    My biggest concern is that Wp8 will have a chunk of ported apps that won't be Metro... even worse... they'll be Android UI. Can someone shed any light on this please?
    No, that won't happen. Well, they still could build the UI to make it look the same as on Android, but that has to be a conscious decision. Native code does not mean magic. The UI code from an Android app will not suddenly start to work on WP. Most Android apps are written in Java, so it's a completely different language. As somebody already mentioned, the native code support will mostly matter for games and apps that are build from a shared framework.
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  15. Big Supes's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBurrrns View Post
    No, that won't happen. Native code does not mean magic. The UI code from an Android app will not suddenly start to work on WP. Most Android apps are written in Java, so it's a completely different language. As somebody already mentioned, the native code support will mostly matter for games and apps that are build from a shared framework.
    Thanks for clarifying. Great news. :)

    Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express
  16. Nataku4ca's Avatar
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    #16  
    im abit curious at the ppl that kept saying any new apps won't work on wp7, as far as i know most apps are and can be written based on silverlight framework and unless u use NFC, wallet, or some special new feature thats not on wp7.8 it will still work, u just need to compile it on 7.1

    this is the way i see it, u compile whatever ur trying to make in 7.1 and it'll work on 8, and only compile in 8 if u are using some special feature... i don't see alot of the new apps that we need are in that form right now

    oh and for gaming part, XNA still exists u know...
  17. DavidinCT's Avatar
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    #17  
    As a programs for money and their apps bring them money. Microsoft publicly stated that 7.5 apps will run on WP8 and WP8 apps that are not native coded (no C/C++ and some key markups) will run on WP7 devices.

    A programer would be a MORON (yes, a MORON) to make an app for ONLY WP8 devices that did not need to.

    If your trying to make a profit on your app, you want more people to have access to your app. How would you get that ? Make your app for WP8 and a new OS people or a current phone that has millions of users world wide ? How would you get the most money ? No question, work on both !

    Dont worry, Unless it's a native app or a game, most new apps would be coded to work on WP 7.5 devices.
  18. AngryNil's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidinCT View Post
    Microsoft publicly stated that... WP8 apps that are not native coded (no C/C++ and some key markups) will run on WP7 devices.
    There's no need to make up misinformation. You can't target WP8-specific functionality and still support WP7, it can only be the other way round. In fact, simply coding the app with the WP8 developer tools may be enough to break compatibility.

    It's a reality of development across all platforms, and it's why you'll find some apps aren't updated for Android 4.0 (<10% of Android devices are updated) / won't be for iOS 6 (iPad 1 isn't supported). Remember what happened with Mango? Oops, short memory?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidinCT View Post
    A programer would be a MORON (yes, a MORON) to make an app for ONLY WP8 devices that did not need to.
    Wow, thanks! I'm considering trying my hand at a WP8 game and if the tools are different, I see no reason to stick with WP7. What is the point of learning the SDK when better tools are going to be readily available and far more future-proof? In fact, I might just want to go with native development for performance gains.

    I'm not going to get the game earlier than mid-2013 - yeah, nine months after WP7 devices will be effectively discontinued. And even better, if the developer tools for WP8 are close to W8's, it might be an easy port.

    But no, I'm a moron. Call me when composing music, creating graphics and writing code for a project that has no guarantee of succeeding is doing it for the money, and as easy as you make it sound.
    Last edited by AngryNil; 07-01-2012 at 01:06 AM.
  19. vp710's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by irlju View Post
    Wow, thanks! I'm considering trying my hand at a WP8 game [...]
    But no, I'm a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidinCT View Post
    A programer would be a MORON (yes, a MORON) to make an app for ONLY WP8 devices that did not need to.[...]Dont worry, Unless it's a native app or a game, most new apps would be coded to work on WP 7.5 devices.
  20. rbrunner's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by irlju View Post
    In fact, simply coding the app with the WP8 developer tools may be enough to break compatibility.
    Ahhh, come on, you know and I know about build targets in Visual Studio. They do work.

    Quote Originally Posted by irlju View Post
    But no, I'm a moron. Call me when composing music, creating graphics and writing code for a project that has no guarantee of succeeding is doing it for the money, and as easy as you make it sound.
    I am not sure I understand that sentence. Do you want to imply that you have a guarantee of success if you are clever and code for WP8 instead of being dumb and still code for WP7? Anyway, if you know any way whatsoever with a guarantee of succeeding in mobile app space, please send me a PM. I would happily code for whatever platform is necessary in exchange for a guaranteed success.
  21. AngryNil's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by vp710 View Post
    I read it as "native app or game". Oops. That said, my idea would definitely run on even first-gen devices, since it's a 2D environment broken up into individual locations. I originally thought I'd get started on it for Windows Phone 7 very soon, but WP8 has me waiting now, especially with the promise of W8 compatibility. Windows Phone 8 may open with 100k apps, but Windows 8 won't.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbrunner View Post
    Ahhh, come on, you know and I know about build targets in Visual Studio. They do work.
    Might not be so simple with a game, I haven't tried. Especially since I'm examining the possibility of native, and who knows what else is coming with WP8's dev kit. If I recall correctly, one of the issues with the Mango transition was that Microsoft initially did not provide the ability to support Mango & pre-Mango concurrently. I wouldn't want to have to release WP7 and WP8 versions separately.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbrunner View Post
    Do you want to imply that you have a guarantee of success if you are clever and code for WP8
    I'm implying the exact opposite - that development in these highly competitive mobile stores is incredibly hit-and-miss. For example, I use Call Credit (fantastic app). I paid for it because it's so damn useful, but the developer has gone on record and said it is the lowest-paying job he's ever done. In this case, there's isn't even competition. Super useful, good implementation, constant bug fixes and updates... yet, low return.

    Also, you might notice from a quick Marketplace browse how hard it is for a paid indie title to top the charts. Apart from fads such as logo-identifying games, it's super rare.
    Last edited by AngryNil; 07-01-2012 at 05:50 AM.
  22. Bee Mon's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by gedmurphy View Post
    As we know, one of the main blockers for app developers to bring existing software to WP is portability. As the current WP development environment doesn't allow native code to run, getting apps onto our platform requires a rewrite. This is especially true in the gaming world where we don't get games that are easily ported across iOS and Android.

    As WP8 will have support for native code, it makes porting existing iOS and Android apps much easier, meaning all the big titles will likely be native based for code re-usability.

    So, what does this mean for WP7 owners? Does this mean they'll be locked out of all the top apps because they'll be ports of iOS and Android code bases?

    You have to wonder why Zynga is suddenly bringing Words with Friends and DrawSomething to WP. It makes me think they'll be native ports and therefore not accessible to WP7 users.

    Thoughts?
    Truthfully its hard to say. It's all depends on the developers and publishers. Not all apps on those platforms are written using native code anyway. Even if the original apps are written in native code, there are so many other differences between the platforms it does not make it any easier to port it over to WP8. As much as we are scratching our heads over this, I think the developers will be too when there are million+ WP7 owners out there now and not everyone will and can upgrade to WP8 when its released. Frankly if Zynga is bringing their games only to WP8 not because of any lacking on WP7 but they're own lazyness to optimise to the platform, then how is WP8 going to stand out in front of the competition? Sorry I am not going to use hand-me down apps from iPhone and Android. I will still support exclusive WP7 apps because I believe they will still work better on a WP8 device than WP8 apps ported from other platforms.

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