Welcome to the WPCentral Forums Create Your Account or Ask a Question Answers in 5 minutes - no registration required!
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28
Like Tree8Likes
  1.    #1  
    Seriously!!! Youtube is a fundamental application on a smartphone these days. It's not a "nice to have!". It's not a "let's just learn to live without it!" It's as fundamental as mapping, social networking and messaging. Both Microsoft and Google pay their execs a lot of money. You'd think they'd grow a pair of balls, get round the table and sort it out, instead of acting like a couple of petulant kids.

    So, my question.......when is Microsoft and Google going to put their customers first and sort this out?
  2. #2  
    As soon as Microsoft develop a html5 version of the youtube app so Google can make more demands in a strategic bid to keep an official Youtube app off the WP platform.

    It's frustrating and a corporate power play.
    wapoz likes this.
  3. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,779 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,895 Global Posts
    #3  
    The deal is that Google owns YouTube and doesn't want to play nice. MS and Google have been sparring for quite some time now and it's turned into a pis***g contest. First it was the Exchange issue with Gmail and now YouTube. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest something crazy: why don't all the software companies get together and develop standards that work across all platforms like they did with Bluetooth?
    psudotechzealot and wapoz like this.
  4. mase123987's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    3,073 Posts
    Global Posts
    3,192 Global Posts
    #4  
    An official, good app would be nice. That said, I am fine with using the options we hae.
  5.    #5  
    There are too many mavericks in the mobile world, every company wants to break away and go it alone. Can you imagine what a mess the internet and telecoms infrastructure markets would be like if the major global players didn't work together to create commonality????? We'd still be trying to figure out how to make a phone call from one town to another......
  6. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,779 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,895 Global Posts
    #6  
    Here we go again with apps. What can an "app" do that can't be done through a browser? We all know that WP is lacking in a few apps, create a bookmark on IE and be done with it until the Marketplace grows. Have we gotten so lazy or complacent? If WP isn't your cup of tea, move on.
  7. fwaits's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    858 Posts
    #7  
    Google is ****-blocking MS here plain and simple. It sucks and is within their right, but it's a **** move nonetheless to keep MS from looking viable to others which might help further their growth. MS will likely have to build something HTML5 while continuing to "work" with Google on something better. In the meantime I'll just keep using MetroTube which is solid if you don't need to do your own uploads via mobile app, which I personally don't.
    "Bro, you know I lift cause I use a Lumia 920..."
  8. fwaits's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    858 Posts
    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by fatclue_98 View Post
    Here we go again with apps. What can an "app" do that can't be done through a browser? We all know that WP is lacking in a few apps, create a bookmark on IE and be done with it until the Marketplace grows. Have we gotten so lazy or complacent? If WP isn't your cup of tea, move on.
    Well to be fair while mobile web pages work, they are not always very user friendly compared to a native app so the experience is less than optimal, but yes it can be done.
    "Bro, you know I lift cause I use a Lumia 920..."
  9. wapoz's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    225 Posts
    #9  
    The most ridiculous part of this whole feud between Google and Microsoft: Microsoft doesn't punish Android users, and still makes most of their apps on available on Android (One note, Xbox music, games, etc.). Google however is too focused on "hurting" Microsoft in the mobile playing field and preventing WP from growing, and punishes WP users as a result. The same even carries over to the desktop where Google refuses to make a proper Metro version of chrome, and instead makes that chrome OS-like abomination.
  10. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    96 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,337 Global Posts
    #10  
    I get where fatclue is going there, like people complaining about their banks not having an app when then the mobile sites are usually fast and just fine, as a former BlackBerry man, I've heard every possible app complaint in the book.

    As far as Youtube goes though, I wouldn't know since its rare I ever look at videos there but doesn't the mobile website lack alot of other user functions that are offered elsewhere? If that is all true, I could see people calling a sh*t move on Google's part to allow these other user functions pretty much everywhere else except WP, which as pointed out earlier is 'technically' within their rights. I guess it's a two-sided coin in this particular case.
  11. Jas00555's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,396 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,517 Global Posts
    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by fatclue_98 View Post
    Here we go again with apps. What can an "app" do that can't be done through a browser? We all know that WP is lacking in a few apps, create a bookmark on IE and be done with it until the Marketplace grows. Have we gotten so lazy or complacent? If WP isn't your cup of tea, move on.
    Why take the interstate when you can take a back road? Sure it takes longer, but have we become so lazy that we can't take longer to get somewhere?

    Why buy an eBook online when you can drive to a library and take out a book? Sure its easier, but have we become so lazy that we can't drive across town?

    Your argument doesn't help the situation and reminds me of a Crackberry comment where "the browser does everything I need it to". Most people (including me) would rather have an app than go to the browser. While I'm not getting rid of my 920, it would still be better with an app.
    Last edited by Jas00555; 10-08-2013 at 01:08 PM.
  12. ag1986's Avatar
    Banned

    Posts
    488 Posts
    #12  
    The root of the problem here is that IE for WP does not support HTML5 inline video. Ballmer, Rubino et al. have done a pretty good job of ignoring that one fact. Internet Explorer 10 brings HTML5 to Windows Phone 8 in a big way

    "There are some minor differences between Internet Explorer 10 for Windows 8 and Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone that you need to be aware of. Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone does not support the following:

    Inline video"

    The APIs that Google releases externally for YT all depend on this and so, because IE on WP8 is lacking this capability it is not possible to build a YT app for WP8 that would be compliant with Google's specs. Right now, trying to do this would open the video in WP's media player and Google would not be able to measure things like ad views, ad view duration and other metrics that they must report to the advertisers.

    MS, being MS, reverse-engineered the native API that Google uses for iOS and Android, and built an app that violated EVERY T&C - I mean, download vids? How were they expecting to get away with that? Then Google asked them to build a compliant app using HTML5 and the existing API, just like everyone else does. This is not possible because whoever built IE for WP is an *****. Then, they start whining about how Google is mean.
  13. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,779 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,895 Global Posts
    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jas00555 View Post
    Why take the interstate when you can take a back road? Sure it takes longer, but have we become so lazy that we can't take longer to get somewhere?

    Why buy an eBook online when you can drive to a library and take out a book? Sure its easier, but have we become so lazy that we can't drive across town?

    Your argument doesn't help the situation and reminds me of a Crackberry comment where "the browser does everything I need it to". Most people (including me) would rather have an app than go to the browser. While I'm not getting rid of my 920, it would still be better with an app.
    Your examples are so ridiculous that I had to think twice before replying. Before there were Interstates, at least we had back roads. Before Nooks & Kindles we had paperbacks too. WP is lacking some apps, but instead of the constant whining (which has accomplished nothing), at least pretend to make an effort to find a workaround. If it doesn't work for you, move on.

    I know from other posts that you enjoy bashing anything I write. That's cool, if you want to engage in an intellectual discussion, I'm game. If your intent is to quibble with me for the sake of it, let me know so I can just hit the ignore button.
    Chief_Adu likes this.
  14. ag1986's Avatar
    Banned

    Posts
    488 Posts
    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by fatclue_98 View Post
    Here we go again with apps. What can an "app" do that can't be done through a browser? We all know that WP is lacking in a few apps, create a bookmark on IE and be done with it until the Marketplace grows. Have we gotten so lazy or complacent? If WP isn't your cup of tea, move on.
    Anything that can be done offline, for starters. Not everyone has data all the time.
  15. tgp
    tgp is online now
    tgp's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,559 Posts
    Global Posts
    2,156 Global Posts
    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ag1986 View Post
    The root of the problem here is that IE for WP does not support HTML5 inline video. Ballmer, Rubino et al. have done a pretty good job of ignoring that one fact. Internet Explorer 10 brings HTML5 to Windows Phone 8 in a big way

    "There are some minor differences between Internet Explorer 10 for Windows 8 and Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone that you need to be aware of. Internet Explorer 10 for Windows Phone does not support the following:

    Inline video"

    The APIs that Google releases externally for YT all depend on this and so, because IE on WP8 is lacking this capability it is not possible to build a YT app for WP8 that would be compliant with Google's specs. Right now, trying to do this would open the video in WP's media player and Google would not be able to measure things like ad views, ad view duration and other metrics that they must report to the advertisers.

    MS, being MS, reverse-engineered the native API that Google uses for iOS and Android, and built an app that violated EVERY T&C - I mean, download vids? How were they expecting to get away with that? Then Google asked them to build a compliant app using HTML5 and the existing API, just like everyone else does. This is not possible because whoever built IE for WP is an *****. Then, they start whining about how Google is mean.
    I was about to ask why Microsoft doesn't build a compliant HTML5 app, but you basically answered my questions (provided it's correct! ). I'm not a developer so I have no clue.
    I have a Nexus 4, an iPhone 5, and a Lumia 520, and I like them all. Is something wrong with me? (I really should edit my signature sometime. I have only 1 of these 3 phones anymore, and even that one is mostly unused because it's been superseded by its big brother!)
  16. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,779 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,895 Global Posts
    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by ag1986 View Post
    Anything that can be done offline, for starters. Not everyone has data all the time.
    I was referring to web-based apps. Obviously you don't need internet connectivity for games, playing music, etc. But most of the apps that receive complaints are indeed web-based such as the aforementioned YouTube, Facebook, etc.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by ag1986 View Post
    ...because IE on WP8 is lacking this capability it is not possible to build a YT app for WP8 that would be compliant with Google's specs.
    There are no specs. Possibly Google has a reason to insist on a HTML5 based app, but considering no other platform must abide by the same rules, it seems arbitrary. That Google waited for MS to release their native app, before telling MS they will only accept a HTML5 based app, further raises my suspicion that this is just a delay tactic, not a "spec".

    Quote Originally Posted by no-no-applesux View Post
    So, my question.......when is Microsoft and Google going to put their customers first and sort this out?
    Why does anybody care? Just use MyTube or MetroTube and be done with it. Both work great.

    Anyway, the answer to your question is: "never". From the outset, Google was setup as a company to compete with MS. Google is increasingly branching into more domains that were previously dominated by MS, which virtually guarantees that the competition will only get more fierce going forward. Both companies have a mandate to grow their influence and market share, and to a degree that can only happen at the other companies expense. It's called capitalism and free markets. If sticking it to WP customers is Google's best play, then that is what they will do. That will only change if WP can grow its market share to a level that Google can't afford to disregard, but the "childish" competition will continue regardless, just in areas that are less visible to the average consumer.
  18. ag1986's Avatar
    Banned

    Posts
    488 Posts
    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    There are no specs. Possibly Google has a reason to insist on a HTML5 based app, but considering no other platform must abide by the same rules, it seems arbitrary. That Google waited for MS to release their native app, before telling MS they will only accept a HTML5 based app, further raises my suspicion that this is just a delay tactic, not a "spec".
    No other platform=iOS and Android, for which Google themselves develop the app. They are the first party and not the third party, therefore have no requirement to abide by the 3rd party guidelines that MS must abide by.

    Looking at MS' history over the past few decades, it's more likely that they did this just to drum up marketing sympathy (failed), in the full knowledge that Google would take action, looking like the bad guy. MS is the one known for dirty tricks in this business, far far more than Google.

    Again, if MS wanted to, they could have fixed the embedded inline video issue with IE, built an HTML5 app and released it. That they haven't shows their incompetence.
  19. ag1986's Avatar
    Banned

    Posts
    488 Posts
    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post

    Anyway, the answer to your question is: "never". From the outset, Google was setup as a company to compete with MS. Google is increasingly branching into more domains that were previously dominated by MS, which virtually guarantees that the competition will only get more fierce going forward. Both companies have a mandate to grow their influence and market share, and to a degree that can only happen at the other companies expense. It's called capitalism and free markets. If sticking it to WP customers is Google's best play, then that is what they will do. That will only change if WP can grow its market share to a level that Google can't afford to disregard, but the "childish" competition will continue regardless, just in areas that are less visible to the average consumer.
    Sorry, none of your hater-FUD is valid - I'll believe it when MS fixes IE, and then if Google screws with YT, we'll see. Until now everything that has happened with YT on WP can be attributed to MS' incompetence and/or petulance.
  20. fwaits's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    858 Posts
    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by ag1986 View Post
    Sorry, none of your hater-FUD is valid - I'll believe it when MS fixes IE, and then if Google screws with YT, we'll see. Until now everything that has happened with YT on WP can be attributed to MS' incompetence and/or petulance.
    Perhaps from the HTML5 point of view, but Google is still being a **** about the situation intentionally.
    "Bro, you know I lift cause I use a Lumia 920..."
  21. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by ag1986 View Post
    Sorry, none of your hater-FUD is valid - I'll believe it when MS fixes IE, and then if Google screws with YT, we'll see. Until now everything that has happened with YT on WP can be attributed to MS' incompetence and/or petulance.
    lol, coming from you that is pure irony! What part of the text you quoted have you misinterpreted to be "hater FUD"?

    The part about Google being setup specifically to compete with MS, and both companies increasingly targeting the same customers, is entirely uncontroversial. Everything else you quoted was about competition in general, where you could have switched company names around and it would have been equally true. It wasn't a post about "evil Google".

    The point is, that what the OP perceives to be childish behaviour, is actually just normal competition, because the most honourable move isn't always the most profitable or strategically sound. No such large company is completely innocent, neither MS or Google.
  22. ag1986's Avatar
    Banned

    Posts
    488 Posts
    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    lol, coming from you that is pure irony! What part of the text you quoted have you misinterpreted to be "hater FUD"?

    The part about Google being setup specifically to compete with MS, and both companies increasingly targeting the same customers, is entirely uncontroversial. Everything else you quoted was about competition in general, where you could have switched company names around and it would have been equally true. It wasn't a post about "evil Google".

    The point is, that what the OP perceives to be childish behaviour, is actually just normal competition, because the most honourable move isn't always the most profitable or strategically sound. No such large company is completely innocent, neither MS or Google.
    Every domain (except Office/Docs) in which Google and MS compete, Google was there first. Search, Mobile, you name it. How is it valid to assert that Google was set up to compete with MS when it's clear that MS was late to the party in all these things. In fact, it could be said that MS basically never saw the Internet as being something useful, thus giving companies like Google and Amazon space to take it over to the extent they have now.
  23. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by ag1986 View Post
    No other platform=iOS and Android, for which Google themselves develop the app. They are the first party and not the third party, therefore have no requirement to abide by the 3rd party guidelines that MS must abide by.

    Looking at MS' history over the past few decades, it's more likely that they did this just to drum up marketing sympathy (failed), in the full knowledge that Google would take action, looking like the bad guy. MS is the one known for dirty tricks in this business, far far more than Google.
    You are stretching really hard to avoid recognising the obvious.

    Google's previous requests, revolving around advertising and the use of YT's APIs were credible, but their current HTML5 angle is not. If there was any merit to them, Google would be enforcing those "3rd party guidelines" (please share BTW, as you appear to be privy to them) with all third parties, including MetroTube and MyTube, which clearly they are not.

    Your need to "go back 20 years" in order to convince yourself that MS is "more likely to be the bad guy" is telling. Wake up! It's 2013. None of these companies are innocent.
    Last edited by a5cent; 10-09-2013 at 06:19 AM.
  24. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by ag1986 View Post
    Every domain (except Office/Docs) in which Google and MS compete, Google was there first. Search, Mobile, you name it. How is it valid to assert that Google was set up to compete with MS when it's clear that MS was late to the party in all these things.
    Look, you seem like a smart guy, but you really need to get out of that Google bubble.

    • Windows existed before Chrome OS
    • IE existed before Chrome Browser
    • Office existed before Google's Web Apps
    • and when it comes to mobile, yes, Windows Mobile existed long before Android


    Search is one of very few instances of this happening the other way around.

    Eric Schmidt, the previous CEO of Google, started his career at Sun Microsystems, a company fully devoted to competing with MS. Everything they did was aimed at competing with MS on their turf. Eric Schmidt brought that mind-set along with him when he arrived at Google.
    Last edited by a5cent; 10-09-2013 at 06:18 AM.
    stmav likes this.
  25. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,779 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,895 Global Posts
    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    Look, you seem like a smart guy, but you really need to get out of that Google bubble.

    • Windows existed before Chrome OS
    • IE existed before Chrome Browser
    • Office existed before Google's Web Apps
    • and when it comes to mobile, yes, Windows Mobile existed long before Android


    Search is one of very few instances of this happening the other way around.

    Eric Schmidt, the previous CEO of Google, started his career at Sun Microsystems, a company fully devoted to competing with MS. Everything they did was aimed at competing with MS on their turf. Eric Schmidt brought that mind-set along with him when he arrived at Google.
    I can only speak about your bullet points and they are 100% accurate. Smartphone OS choices before Android were WinMo, Symbian, UIQ and PalmOS. iOS came the same year as Android (2007).
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. what updates will be coming to EACH device in Amber ?
    By Stalemate 1 in forum Windows Phone 8
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-28-2013, 01:27 PM
  2. Steam Machine the future of gaming?
    By BIGPADDY in forum The Gamer's Lounge
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-11-2013, 06:06 PM
  3. Win 8.1 features and L1020
    By Panathas in forum Nokia Lumia 1020
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-08-2013, 10:24 AM
  4. What nokia named the GDR1 update?
    By unnatixlr8 in forum General Microsoft News and Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-08-2013, 07:24 AM
  5. what about the update
    By wpp8fan in forum Windows Phone 8
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-08-2013, 04:45 AM

Posting Permissions