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  1. based_graham's Avatar
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       #1  
    Just doing some research working on my new blog and decided to peep the Windows Phone to Android ratio on Amazon Wireless.

    ATT
    Android = 23
    Windows = 9
    Ratio > 2:1

    T-Mobile
    Android = 18
    Windows = 3
    Ratio: 6:1

    Verizon
    Android = 20
    Windows = 1 (1st gen phone)
    Ratio: 20:1

    Sprint
    Android = 16
    Windows = 1 (1st gen phone)
    Ratio: 16:1

    See no matter how many Nokia phones sell there is no way Windows Phone can compete with Android's volume and lets face it HTC and Samsung are doing diddly squat in marketing their phones so its pretty much up to Nokia for building market share :(

    So what do you guys think? What should Microsoft do to combat Android's volume?

    And dont even mention iPhone that's a whole other monster to deal with.
  2. #2  
    It's about quality, not quantity. How many different models of BlackBerry are sold? Despite the fact that only BlackBerry fans are able to keep track of all the devices named "Curve", it hasn't helped the BlackBerry market share in the US.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    scottcraft likes this.
  3. gwydionjhr's Avatar
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    #3  
    There needs to be a balance between choice and focus. Too focused, and there aren't enough to choose from. Too many choices and things lose focus.

    Personally, I think there should be somewhere between 2 and 4 devices per carrier.

    Something I learned in sales a long time ago. Never offer a customer between one product, and the door. So currently, at least w/ Verizon & Sprint, (ideal world here, I understand what it's actually like in their stores) at best the customer is offered the choice between a WP and one from "the other guys". What you really want is to offer a choice between WP "A" and WP "B".

    BTW - Next time you go buy some shoes, see if the sales person comes from the back room with one or two pair of shoes, even if it's the same thing in a half size different. :D
    Regards,
    Joel Rushworth
    Victoria, B.C.

    Nokia 6188 - AudioVox PPC6600 - HTC 8125 - Lg eXpo GW820 - Lumia 710 - Lumia 920 - Lumia 1020
  4. socialcarpet's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    It's about quality, not quantity. How many different models of BlackBerry are sold? Despite the fact that only BlackBerry fans are able to keep track of all the devices named "Curve", it hasn't helped the BlackBerry market share in the US.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    The iPhone would seem to prove this point, but it's got an iconic sort of wunder-product desirability halo around it that no other single model of phone can replicate.

    The sheer volume of Android phones though, has much to do with their success. When you walk into a store and 80% of what you see is Android and there is a huge variety of form factors and different brands (something Blackberry does not come close to equaling) it's no wonder.

    I maintain that most people still do not buy Android's because they want Android. They walk into a store and they look at phones. If they don't already KNOW they want an iPhone, then they have excellent odds of winding up with an Android because you can't get away from them.

    Phone stores are like a shell game with 10 shells and there's an Android phone under 8 of them. :dry
    snowmutt and cckgz4 like this.
  5. based_graham's Avatar
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       #5  
    I wish more carriers present their products similar to how Gamestop does. When you walk into a gamestop you see a separate section for Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. Hopefully carriers should follow the same formula.
  6. socialcarpet's Avatar
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by based_graham View Post

    So what do you guys think? What should Microsoft do to combat Android's volume?

    And dont even mention iPhone that's a whole other monster to deal with.
    The way for Microsoft to combat Android is to exploit the weaknesses that Android cannot change. Like the ridiculous inconsistency of the UI, different skins for different OEMs, Carrier bloatware, bugginess, an overly complicated structure, unreliability.

    If I were Microsoft, I would run some relentless anti-Android commercials similar to what Apple ran against Microsoft in the past. Showing how much simpler Windows Phone is versus the chaotic mess of Android.

    Sure the Android fan boys will make fun and say Windows Phone is for dummies, just like the anti-Apple crowd did, but those people are going to use Android no matter what ANYWAY. I think ads like that will really reach people who have already owned Android phones and had mixed results with them or like me, hate the *#&$# things. There are MILLIONS of people like that out there and most of them think their only other option is an iPhone.

    A controversial series of ads directly targeting Android like that would get Microsoft a lot of attention and press because:

    A.) It's completely out of character for Microsoft, it will be totally unexpected and out of left field and that would get the media and people talking about Windows Phone in a way that all of Microsofts nerdy and awkward product presentations NEVER will.

    B.) There are millions of people out there who will immediately identify with what it is like to be frustrated with an Android phone. Millions of people have owned at least one cheap, buggy Android. A light will go off in their heads as soon as they see the right ad.

    C.) It will infuriate Android fanboys, building a wave of free publicity, and Google will do nothing to counter the ads, because they don't get involved in advertising Android and because they CAN'T. The vast majority of users do not give a crap about all the geeky **** you can do with an Android, even if they put that in an ad, it would fail

    Microsoft can afford to take liberties with the truth and exaggerate the bugginess and complexity of Android for comedic effect, that's how commercials work and like I said, Google/Android can't and won't do a damn thing to counter it.

    I'm convinced that an ad campaign like that with some serious Microsoft money behind it, combined with a continued push for developers and OEMs to innovate will gain Microsoft some significant marketshare.

    1.) Snarky, funny, bold advertising that hits Android right in the nuts.
    2.) Killer applications
    3.) Innovative phones, new bold designs like the Lumia 800/900 that you can't get anywhere else but WINDOWS PHONE.

    As for the iPhone, I think going after it directly would be a waste of energy. Here's why:

    A.) The iPhone is always going to naturally limit it's marketshare by only offering one model of phone at a time.

    B.) Many casual iPhone users are fiercely loyal and invested in the platform in a way that only the most hardcore Android fans are. I think it will be much easier to sway people from the Android camp than the iPhone camp, it's a better target.

    C.) Android is the growing behemoth in market share. It's the one to go after and it's got some critical weaknesses in terms of the average user that will be easy to exploit. The iPhone is the opposite, it's only real weaknesses are obscure "walled garden" restrictions that almost no one who isn't a power user (a very small percentage of overall smartphone users) care about.

    Ignore the iPhone. Go after Android with a vengeance.
  7. based_graham's Avatar
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       #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    It's about quality, not quantity. How many different models of BlackBerry are sold? Despite the fact that only BlackBerry fans are able to keep track of all the devices named "Curve", it hasn't helped the BlackBerry market share in the US.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    WP is brand new it needs to flood the market in order to breakthrough.

    Windows 8, Xbox, Office, Surface should help WP needs to backbone off the momentum of other MS products.
    snowmutt and AKA Preluva like this.
  8. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #8  
    Windows 8 will do wonders for Windows Phone.

    The fact that Windows 8 will be super cheap helps a lot.

    Then there's Office. The new cloud based Office is awesome.

    Have a little patience. MS has made huge changes in how their whole company is running. These things take time.

    With Windows 8 available, we'll see a slow and steady acceptance of the Metro interface. It won't be overnight. But it will be unstoppable. Like a huge boulder. It takes a lot of force and effort to get it moving. And you have to push and push and push. But once you've built momentum and it gets rolling, don't get in its way!

    With Windows 8, MS has put a stake in the ground. They've saying that they're "all in", and that should be enough for us fans, because that means we'll continue to get improvements and support for years to come. This ecosystem isn't going to disappear any time in the near future. So we can afford to be patient while WP slowly gains market share.
    snowmutt and based_graham like this.
  9. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by socialcarpet View Post
    The way for Microsoft to combat Android is to exploit the weaknesses that Android cannot change. Like the ridiculous inconsistency of the UI, different skins for different OEMs, Carrier bloatware, bugginess, an overly complicated structure, unreliability.

    ...snip...

    I agree that Android is much more vulnerable than iOS. You try to convert the non-enthusiasts. The people who aren't emotionally tied to a phone OS. They just want a device to use.

    The amount of dedicated Android enthusiasts is tiny compared to iOS enthusiasts. Most Android users just happen to be using it because it was an affordable phone.
  10. Bai
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    #10  
    I wonder how much $ HTC, Sony, Lenovo..etc making on each andriod phone, there are alot of phones from those companies selling for $100-150 and they have to pay 10-15 per to MS. Even the Nexus 4.1 is going for only $350 compare to L900 for $500. There are alot of problem with the google eco system as far as I can tell.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    It's about quality, not quantity. How many different models of BlackBerry are sold? Despite the fact that only BlackBerry fans are able to keep track of all the devices named "Curve", it hasn't helped the BlackBerry market share in the US.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    I disagree, we have android devices even on prepaid carriers such as boost mobile and cricket, this means that we are seeing people who at one time could only afford a flip phone with Android phones. We need to get WP into the prepaid sector as well as more than one WP on each of the main carriers.
  12. based_graham's Avatar
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       #12  
    Well this is in my blog but this is how I would combat Android numbers from a hardware point of view.

    Windows Phone has 4 major OEM's I am going to focus on Nokia, Samsung and HTC

    For Samsung since they make Win8 products I will give them a discount on OS licensing. Instead of paying 100$ for Win8, 40$ for RT, 25$ for WP I will give them a bundled price of 25$ RT/WP8 and 40$ Win8 IF they build a premier portfolio line which means its not just as carbon copy of their Android Galaxy series phone.

    It would require Samsung to build a
    - low, mid, high-end Windows Phone
    - Windows RT tablets
    - Windows 8 PC's and ultrabooks

    The Windows family will be a premier line Microsoft will take care of the marketing, product placement in MS stores, retail outlets and carriers.

    For low tier non PC OEM's I will give them the 25$ WinRT/WP8 license with the same perks.

    So for example Samsung will need to build at least 3 devices, HTC 3 devices, Nokia 3 devices etc. I would also approach PC OEM's the same way

    So with 3 vendors we can get atleast 9 WP at launch and use that momentum and try getting more carrier support like a dedicated Windows section at your local Verizon store.

    The section will include
    - Windows phones
    - RT tablets
    - Ultrabooks that showcase rocket sticks etc

    I think this is a good way to mass flood the market use WinRT and Win8 licenses to attract more from your mobile OEM's. It's all about a family of products now modeled after Apple's lineup but not a carbon copy.
    snowmutt likes this.
  13. SnailUK's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by socialcarpet View Post
    If I were Microsoft, I would run some relentless anti-Android commercials similar to what Apple ran against Microsoft in the past. Showing how much simpler Windows Phone is versus the chaotic mess of Android.
    Which is lovely, but deeply flawed.

    Read the windows phone suggestions thingy, and about 90% of it, is people requesting stuff that already works on iOS and Android, but they can't do on WP.

    Android will always be cheaper, and more functional than WP, so they are completely the wrong target. Not to mention that Android people don't like to spend money.

    What Microsoft need to do, is go after the iPhone crowd. Make WP8 match iOS feature for feature (which is a lot more plausible than matching Android), highlight the speed, style, and cost benefits of WP8.

    Once done, the people who want an iPhone, but settle for an Android because they can't afford one, will start considering a WP8 too.

    or...

    As a left field suggestion, why not work on app licensing, to make sure you buy an app once, and your entitled to the phone, tablet, xbox, and PC versions of it.

    Therefore making it easier for people to migrate, because as they are buying apps on one platform, they also get the phone version free, so as they go to update their phone, its easier to migrate to WP8, because they already own a huge library of content for it.
  14. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnailUK View Post
    Which is lovely, but deeply flawed.

    Read the windows phone suggestions thingy, and about 90% of it, is people requesting stuff that already works on iOS and Android, but they can't do on WP.

    Android will always be cheaper, and more functional than WP, so they are completely the wrong target. Not to mention that Android people don't like to spend money.
    Not necessarily. With WP8 adopting the NT kernel, it literally opens up huge opportunities to quickly increase available features and new functionality.

    What Microsoft need to do, is go after the iPhone crowd. Make WP8 match iOS feature for feature (which is a lot more plausible than matching Android), highlight the speed, style, and cost benefits of WP8.
    iPhone customer satisfaction is high. They have a lot more dedicated fans. It's harder to get tgese people to switch.

    Also, keep in mind that affordable Android devices have a reputation for a bad user experience. A low and Android device typically doesnt run very well. MS can differentiate WP in this market because a low and WP runs blazingly fast.

    Once done, the people who want an iPhone, but settle for an Android because they can't afford one, will start considering a WP8 too.
    Those aren't iPhone customers. Those are Android customers. And you just pointed out one big reason those Android customers may be easier to win over. They "settled" for an Android device.


    or...

    As a left field suggestion, why not work on app licensing, to make sure you buy an app once, and your entitled to the phone, tablet, xbox, and PC versions of it.

    Therefore making it easier for people to migrate, because as they are buying apps on one platform, they also get the phone version free, so as they go to update their phone, its easier to migrate to WP8, because they already own a huge library of content for it.
    That would be tremendous.
  15. crystal_planet's Avatar
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    #15  
    Microsoft needs to come in with an all encompassing advertising blitz that showcases everything it has to offer with Windows 8. Show someone transitioning smoothly from tablet to PC to Windows Phone 8. Show a some business guy using these devices for work and show a 21 year old girl using them for social networking. Tie them all together.

    An ecosystem that that you don't know where one begins and the other ends.

    Skydrive
    Windows Phone 8
    A Windows 8 laptop
    A Surface tablet

    All the same.
  16. aubreyq's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by socialcarpet View Post
    The way for Microsoft to combat Android is to exploit the weaknesses that Android cannot change...Ignore the iPhone. Go after Android with a vengeance.
    Dude, you nailed it. Post of the year, man.

    I can imagine the ads already. The commercials could feature a well-known actor that talks about how crappy the Android experience is, all while snacking on jellybeans. ;)
    eric12341 likes this.
  17. Verkunder's Avatar
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    #17  
    I hate to be that guy, but I think you meant "No wonder Windows Phone can barely grab marketshare." That or, "No wonder Windows Phone can't grab marketshare."
    Conasca likes this.
  18. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Verkunder View Post
    I hate to be that guy, but I think you meant "No wonder Windows Phone can barely grab marketshare." That or, "No wonder Windows Phone can't grab marketshare."
    OMG. Now you're totally "that guy". :lol:
    snowmutt likes this.
  19. WinFan1's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by socialcarpet View Post
    The way for Microsoft to combat Android is to exploit the weaknesses that Android cannot change. Like the ridiculous inconsistency of the UI, different skins for different OEMs, Carrier bloatware, bugginess, an overly complicated structure, unreliability.

    If I were Microsoft, I would run some relentless anti-Android commercials similar to what Apple ran against Microsoft in the past. Showing how much simpler Windows Phone is versus the chaotic mess of Android.

    Sure the Android fan boys will make fun and say Windows Phone is for dummies, just like the anti-Apple crowd did, but those people are going to use Android no matter what ANYWAY. I think ads like that will really reach people who have already owned Android phones and had mixed results with them or like me, hate the *#&$# things. There are MILLIONS of people like that out there and most of them think their only other option is an iPhone.

    A controversial series of ads directly targeting Android like that would get Microsoft a lot of attention and press because:

    A.) It's completely out of character for Microsoft, it will be totally unexpected and out of left field and that would get the media and people talking about Windows Phone in a way that all of Microsofts nerdy and awkward product presentations NEVER will.

    B.) There are millions of people out there who will immediately identify with what it is like to be frustrated with an Android phone. Millions of people have owned at least one cheap, buggy Android. A light will go off in their heads as soon as they see the right ad.

    C.) It will infuriate Android fanboys, building a wave of free publicity, and Google will do nothing to counter the ads, because they don't get involved in advertising Android and because they CAN'T. The vast majority of users do not give a crap about all the geeky **** you can do with an Android, even if they put that in an ad, it would fail

    Microsoft can afford to take liberties with the truth and exaggerate the bugginess and complexity of Android for comedic effect, that's how commercials work and like I said, Google/Android can't and won't do a damn thing to counter it.

    I'm convinced that an ad campaign like that with some serious Microsoft money behind it, combined with a continued push for developers and OEMs to innovate will gain Microsoft some significant marketshare.

    1.) Snarky, funny, bold advertising that hits Android right in the nuts.
    2.) Killer applications
    3.) Innovative phones, new bold designs like the Lumia 800/900 that you can't get anywhere else but WINDOWS PHONE.

    As for the iPhone, I think going after it directly would be a waste of energy. Here's why:

    A.) The iPhone is always going to naturally limit it's marketshare by only offering one model of phone at a time.

    B.) Many casual iPhone users are fiercely loyal and invested in the platform in a way that only the most hardcore Android fans are. I think it will be much easier to sway people from the Android camp than the iPhone camp, it's a better target.

    C.) Android is the growing behemoth in market share. It's the one to go after and it's got some critical weaknesses in terms of the average user that will be easy to exploit. The iPhone is the opposite, it's only real weaknesses are obscure "walled garden" restrictions that almost no one who isn't a power user (a very small percentage of overall smartphone users) care about.

    Ignore the iPhone. Go after Android with a vengeance.
    i completely agree with the strategy
    snowmutt likes this.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by aubreyq View Post
    Dude, you nailed it. Post of the year, man.

    I can imagine the ads already. The commercials could feature a well-known actor that talks about how crappy the Android experience is, all while snacking on jellybeans. ;)

    You got me imagining that, good one. Jellybeans are quite good tho.
  21. N8ter's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by gwydionjhr View Post
    There needs to be a balance between choice and focus. Too focused, and there aren't enough to choose from. Too many choices and things lose focus.

    Personally, I think there should be somewhere between 2 and 4 devices per carrier.

    Something I learned in sales a long time ago. Never offer a customer between one product, and the door. So currently, at least w/ Verizon & Sprint, (ideal world here, I understand what it's actually like in their stores) at best the customer is offered the choice between a WP and one from "the other guys". What you really want is to offer a choice between WP "A" and WP "B".

    BTW - Next time you go buy some shoes, see if the sales person comes from the back room with one or two pair of shoes, even if it's the same thing in a half size different. :D
    2-4 Sounds low.

    Really, there should be more. There is no loss in focus as long as every device has its niche. For example one phone may have superior camera hardware to other devices, so it is worth it to stock it even when you have a ton of other phones running the same or similar hardware. The MT4G nad Amaze 4G on T-Mobile were good examples of that, as was the Vivid on AT&T and Rezound on Verizon Wireless. In from the same OEM, a device may be totally worth stocking because it offers something that may appeal to consumers that other phones do not.

    If you go by general form factors:

    Portrait QWERTY
    Landscape QWERTY
    Small-Mid Touch Screen (3.5-4")
    Larger Touchscreen (4.3-4.8")
    Phablet (5.3-5.5")
    Tablet (7-10.1")

    Gives you 6 opportunities to carry a device a different segment of consumers will want.

    And that's not even taking into account devices that may be targetted at some types of prosumers (i.e. phones with ridiculously good cameras or PMP functionality).

    There is nothing wrong with flooding the market. It means you will be able to appeal to more consumers than if you stick with only one form-factor. Not many companies can stick to one form factor and perform like Apple does with the iPhone. Most have to go whereever they can to get at those customers.
    snowmutt likes this.
  22. N8ter's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by socialcarpet View Post
    The way for Microsoft to combat Android is to exploit the weaknesses that Android cannot change. Like the ridiculous inconsistency of the UI, different skins for different OEMs, Carrier bloatware, bugginess, an overly complicated structure, unreliability.
    The problem is, the UI is not inconsistent (OEM Skins are not supposed to be consistent with each other, and the major ones from Samsung and HTC have a ton of value in them so users simply never mind that they're there), bloatware is uninstallable and disablable in ICS/JB by default, it's not really that buggy (nothing compared to the keyboard bug Mango had for over half a year), end users do not see any complication, and it's far from unreliable.

    Microsoft had a perfect chance to attack android when WP7 was released. This was back when Android was going from Eclair to FroYo and things like Push Notifications weren't even standardized on Android, nevermind hardware accelleration. There were still a ton of devices being pushed out with absolutely terrible hardware. Developer support on Android wasn't near what it is today and there were literally no Android tablets on the market.

    Things have changed since then.

    And many users are convinced that the grass isn't greener on the other side, so trying to get them to switch - period - is a huge challenge. People do not like platform migrations unless they feel the inevitable is upon them (see RIM).

    Also the term Bloatware is a bit of a misnomer these days with them being so easy to remove/disable and phones now starting to ship with 2GB RAM and tons of App Space. Most users simply don't care.

    The main complaint about bloatware stemmed from back in the day when phones shipped with miniscule amounts of App Storage and hardly any RAM in them.

    Yes, it hurts on your HTC Aria or Samsung Jack that had 256-384MB RAM (less app accessible) and 200-400 App Storage space. Pretty much doesn't matter on the 1-2GB RAM 16-64GB Storage beasts shipping these days.
  23. cckgz4's Avatar
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    #23  
    Good points everyone.

    I think the hardware quantity is really lacking. If they were to just increase the hardware on Verizon to the same amount that's on AT&T that would put them in a better advantage. The advertising, like someone else noted, should directly point out the advantages it has over the competition. If not that, heavily push how natural the ecosystem flows in daily use. And last but not least, keep the dev support momentum going
    Nokia Lumia 1020 owner here...

  24. based_graham's Avatar
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       #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by cckgz4 View Post
    Good points everyone.

    I think the hardware quantity is really lacking. If they were to just increase the hardware on Verizon to the same amount that's on AT&T that would put them in a better advantage. The advertising, like someone else noted, should directly point out the advantages it has over the competition. If not that, heavily push how natural the ecosystem flows in daily use. And last but not least, keep the dev support momentum going
    Verizon is on the come up a lot of users going there a lot of new activations great time to get some awesome WP8 over there
  25. based_graham's Avatar
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       #25  
    Microsoft needs to go after the Android crowd. If I was Ballmer I would be licking my lips knowing I can grab at least 25% of that Marketshare.

    I mean if you really break it down and divide Androids crazy marketshare how many of that 50% are low-end, mid-range, high-end phones. I know for a fact atleast maybe 20% of those users use High End phones the rest are the ****ty low-end phones with cheap contracts.

    WP > Android low end so I know for a fact WP can grab atleast 25%

    Also I wouldn't even bother going after iPhones directly I would capitalize on their mistakes.

    For example

    Not enough iPhone 5's this fall no worries Apple fans try Windows 8, Phone 8 get both of them for 600$ plus a Free Xbox 360 for making the switch :)
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