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  1. mobilejk's Avatar
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       #1  
    First off I can only speak for myself.

    I haven't made the move to WP from WM for a few reasons amoung them:

    NO HID bluetooth profile.

    Apps I depend on daily aren't supported i.e. Developer One Agenda Fusion, Laridian ect..

    Same upgrade to new phone cuz update doesn't get done for your device model still in place.

    Until these are done no WP for me.
  2. selfcreation's Avatar
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    #2  
    ok. ?.. :dry


    what does this mean-->

    Same upgrade to new phone cuz update doesn't get done for your device model still in place.
    gona go on a a limb and say you talking about WP7.5 not getting the WP8 update? and if so this is 100% unconfirmed.
    If your looking for Information, be sure to check out: WindowsPhone: Getting started!
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    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobilejk View Post
    First off I can only speak for myself.

    I haven't made the move to WP from WM for a few reasons amoung them:

    NO HID bluetooth profile.

    Apps I depend on daily aren't supported i.e. Developer One Agenda Fusion, Laridian ect..

    Same upgrade to new phone cuz update doesn't get done for your device model still in place.

    Until these are done no WP for me.
    Really? You can't find a replacement for Bible software? I just did a quick Marketplace search and at least 50 apps come up for keyword "bible".
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  4. Los
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    #4  
    Well keep speaking for yourself cause everything you said doesn't effect everyone else. So it has nothing to do with WP's slow growth. The average person doesn't care about those things

    WP's slow growth was due to poor marketing and advertising before Nokia came. All that is changing
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  5. invertme's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Los View Post
    WP's slow growth was due to poor marketing and advertising before Nokia came. All that is changing
    100% this was the problem. I think Microsoft just expected people to buy these things like hotcakes when they came out. So there was no real advertising push. The problem at the time though was everyone was in love with Apple or Android.

    That's when the union of Nokia and WP was formed. The problem there was it takes time to completely change the direction your company is going. I can only imagine the internal turmoil within Nokia during the change (and probably still happening). Things are coming together nicely now though.

    I expect to only see better things from Microsoft and all of it's partners.
  6. #6  
    It also doesn't help that there are no new devices for VZW or Sprint. Ignoring VZW, the largest carrier in the US won't improve market share.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
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  7. tekhna's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by invertme View Post
    100% this was the problem. I think Microsoft just expected people to buy these things like hotcakes when they came out. So there was no real advertising push. The problem at the time though was everyone was in love with Apple or Android.

    That's when the union of Nokia and WP was formed. The problem there was it takes time to completely change the direction your company is going. I can only imagine the internal turmoil within Nokia during the change (and probably still happening). Things are coming together nicely now though.

    I expect to only see better things from Microsoft and all of it's partners.
    I dunno, I think it only gets harder from here. iOS and Android now control 82% of the market. Now, if WP7 gets the remaining 18% then they're in great shape in third place. But they probably won't get all of it, realistically.
    That means that WP7 has to lure Android and iOS users away, but the problem is that there's a kind of path dependency to phone ownership that makes the opportunity costs of switching much higher. So as Android and iOS sell more phones it becomes increasingly difficult to lure existing users away, and new users look around at the mobile landscape, and make decisions based on what they see--and they don't really see WP7. Until now, but nowhere near the same level.
    For WP7 to succeed they need to take a huge slice out of RIM and Symbian, but so far that hasn't happened. And they also need to take a slice out of dissatisfied iOS/Android users, and while that could happen, and I think it will to some degree, I think Android has seriously stepped up its game with ICS and the new round of hardware coming out of HTC and Samsung.
    I think the real wild card here though is an iPhone 5 with LTE. I think Android has been able to succeed because of hardware, not because of software. An iPhone 5 with a 4" screen and LTE could obliterate Android and WP8, which is a scary thought. Android stole a march on Apple with LTE coming out a full year and half earlier, but that advantage might not last. The success of an iPhone 5 will come at the expense of everybody else's marketshare, and I think could cripple WP8.
    The fall is going to be nothing but gushing over the iPhone 5, it's going to be hard for Microsoft to get in a word edgewise. This, I would guess, is part of the reason why HTC and Samsung have both gotten their high-end devices out for summer. To beat the iPhone 5 to the market in hopes that it doesn't suck all the oxygen out of the market.
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  8. Los
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    It also doesn't help that there are no new devices for VZW or Sprint. Ignoring VZW, the largest carrier in the US won't improve market share.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    Whoa! back up for a second there now. Let's make it clear no one is ignoring Sprint or Verizon. It's Sprint and Verizon who choose to ignore WP right now
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  9. Los
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
    I dunno, I think it only gets harder from here. iOS and Android now control 82% of the market. Now, if WP7 gets the remaining 18% then they're in great shape in third place. But they probably won't get all of it, realistically.
    That means that WP7 has to lure Android and iOS users away
    Well apparently the Lumia 900 hasn't had any problems switching some people over from iOS and android. It seems that a lot of people have switched from both for the Lumia 900. Which means as long as OEM's make beautifully unique hardware, it won't be a problem. WP8 will also add on to the momentum. It's a steep hill to climb but not an impossible one. These things don't happen over night like they did for the iPhone, even android had a rocky start with the G1 and didn't start gaining traction until the Droid series which was a year later.

    In all fairness WP will never beat android cause android is a *****, carriers love that. They can do whatever they want with it. Also phones can get way cheaper with android cause it doesn't have a high minimum requirement. So WP's true competition is iphone cause they are closer alike when it comes to user experience, and how much control MS and Apple have over the OS/hardware. The goal here is to take #2 spot away from Apple. If WP can do that or just be the clear #3, then we're in good shape
  10. #10  
    @Los (no quotes allowed on this Board Express junk) Actually it is because nobody made a Windows Phone that supports VZW's LTE network. The iPhone 4S is the last 1XEVDO-only smartphone VZW will sell. All new smartphones have to support LTE.

    The latest HTC and Nokia support AT&T LTE, but not VZW.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
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  11. tekhna's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Los View Post
    Well apparently the Lumia 900 hasn't had any problems switching some people over from iOS and android. It seems that a lot of people have switched from both for the Lumia 900. Which means as long as OEM's make beautifully unique hardware, it won't be a problem. WP8 will also add on to the momentum. It's a steep hill to climb but not an impossible one. These things don't happen over night like they did for the iPhone, even android had a rocky start with the G1 and didn't start gaining traction until the Droid series which was a year later.

    In all fairness WP will never beat android cause android is a *****, carriers love that. They can do whatever they want with it. Also phones can get way cheaper with android cause it doesn't have a high minimum requirement. So WP's true competition is iphone cause they are closer alike when it comes to user experience, and how much control MS and Apple have over the OS/hardware. The goal here is to take #2 spot away from Apple. If WP can do that or just be the clear #3, then we're in good shape

    We don't have any numbers whatsoever to support the first statement. As I said, it wouldn't surprise me, but I want more proof than "some guy at some party said some people were interested in his phone." It's happening, no doubt, but is it happening to any measurable degree?

    As for the second point, you do realize the Lumia 900 is running on hardware that was cutting edge in early 2010, right? And the first generation of WP7 phones was running on the Qualcomm QSD8250, which was a 2008 chip? Which means these phones are dirt cheap to make? Or should be, anyway. Somehow Nokia managed to make the Lumia 900 cost more than the iPhone 4S, in the end.

    Microsoft will end up the number 3, but only because Symbian, BB10 et. all will fall away, and WebOS died an ignominious death already.
  12. Los
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    @Los (no quotes allowed on this Board Express junk) Actually it is because nobody made a Windows Phone that supports VZW's LTE network. The iPhone 4S is the last 1XEVDO smartphone VZW will sell. All new smartphones have to support LTE.

    The latest HTC and Nokia support AT&T LTE, but not VZW.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    Yes that was the excuse at first but then when asked if they would support WP now that it has LTE, they started acting funny again. It wasn't until the iphone started hurting their pockets when they changed their tune all of a sudden. We'll see what happens this fall but to me the only reason why they want to back WP now is only cause of the iphone costing them so much money. Had that not been the case, they still wouldn't care about WP
  13. Los
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna View Post

    As for the second point, you do realize the Lumia 900 is running on hardware that was cutting edge in early 2010, right? And the first generation of WP7 phones was running on the Qualcomm QSD8250, which was a 2008 chip? Which means these phones are dirt cheap to make? Or should be, anyway. Somehow Nokia managed to make the Lumia 900 cost more than the iPhone 4S, in the end.
    Well duh, that's probably the reason why no WP phones are sold for $200 - 300 today. WP pretty much has the cheapest high end phones. You wanna talk about WP phone prices? Let's talk about BlackBerry's outrageous prices for their phones with even less hardware but they sell the Bold at $200 cause it's their high end model
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  14. #14  
    The next iPhone will support LTE, so there will not be any new smartphones that don't support LTE. All of Androids released since VZW said that are LTE-capable.

    It makes sense. LTE is new to AT&T, but not to VZW. Had VZW been my carrier, I'd had LTE over a year here. Why would I consider a slow 1XEVDO device?

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
  15. Los
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    The next iPhone will support LTE, so there will not be any new smartphones that don't support LTE. All of Androids released since VZW said that are LTE-capable.

    It makes sense. LTE is new to AT&T, but not to VZW. Had VZW been my carrier, I'd had LTE over a year here. Why would I consider a slow 1XEVDO device?

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    Maybe cause to the average user that doesn't matter. It certainly doesn't stop the iphone from selling and that will be about 2 years late to the party. But then again, it's ok when the iphone lacks something but never ok when WP does. There's always been a double standard with the iphone. Lol
  16. #16  
    If I had VZW, I'd own an Android.

    I recently got AT&T LTE nearby and will have it where I live next month. I wasn't going to look at any non-LTE device. That left Android or Windows Phone. I chose Windows Phone, but had I needed to wait till fall, it wouldn't happen. I'd have chosen whatever was LTE-capable and for sale now.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
  17. Los
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    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    If I had VZW, I'd own an Android.

    I recently got AT&T LTE nearby and will have it where I live next month. I wasn't going to look at any non-LTE device. That left Android or Windows Phone. I chose Windows Phone, but had I needed to wait till fall, it wouldn't happen. I'd have chosen whatever was LTE-capable and for sale now.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    See your problem is you think too much as power user. Your not able to see things from a casual perspective. I'm glad your not running a business. Lol
  18. jfa1's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigkevbosky View Post
    Really? You can't find a replacement for Bible software? I just did a quick Marketplace search and at least 50 apps come up for keyword "bible".
    I was ticked off with laridian for not jumping on the NIV Bible which I used since palm IIIc and pocket pc days. I got over it very quickly when I found Acro Bible NIV whicch I have been using since I got my focus and installed it on my new L 900. It is what Laridians Pocket Bible for Windows Phone would like/act/feel like IMHO. You shpuld take a look at it is has the szame feel as pocket bible for windows mobile pnlyt smoother you can take notes and bookmark just like Pocket Bible. I have told Laridian several times they should buy Acro Bible !!
    Your smartphone is only as smart as YOU let it be!
  19. #19  
    I pretty much forgot about "casual use" when I stopped using feature phones. I don't know anyone except my mother who still uses a feature phone.

    One of my relatives is a current mobile device admin, formerly a BES admin. I also have a friend who is an electrical engineer.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
  20. Los
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    I pretty much forgot about "casual use" when I stopped using feature phones. I don't know anyone except my mother who still uses a feature phone.

    One of my relatives is a current mobile device admin, formerly a BES admin. I also have a friend who is an electrical engineer.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    That's my point. This thread is about WP's slow growth. Yet all you always do is say me! me! me! Lol...remember, it doesn't matter what your looking for. When it comes to gaining marketshare. It's about winning over the casual users. It's much bigger than you and me

    You said what you were looking for when getting a phone, yet that's the perspective of a power user. People like my mom, aunts and other people not so into tech don't give a damn and don't even know what LTE is. They don't care if a phone has LTE, they can't even tell you what LTE is or stands for. So it doesn't matter
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  21. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Los View Post
    That's my point. This thread is about WP's slow growth. Yet all you always do is say me! me! me! Lol...remember, it doesn't matter what your looking for. When it comes to gaining marketshare. It's about winning over the casual users. It's much bigger than you and me

    You said what you were looking for when getting a phone, yet that's the perspective of a power user. People like my mom, aunts and other people not so into tech don't give a damn and don't even know what LTE is. They don't care if a phone has LTE, they can't even tell you what LTE is or stands for. So it doesn't matter
    I guess the question then is, what is the typical Android user like? I tend to surround myself with geeks, so I am not aware of the "typical Android user".

    The reason I ask is because I think Windows Phone has a better chance of attracting former Blackberry and possibly former Android users. iPhone users are probably too invested in the App Store/iTunes to switch. Android apps tend to be free, so there would be less "investment". BlackBerry does not have much to speak of in the way of popular apps, so switching is easy.

    However, if the "typical Android user" is a geek who likes to root the Android and install custom ROMs, then he/she might not want to switch.

    Does anyone have more information about Android users (percent that root/install custom ROMs)?
  22. Los
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    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    I guess the question then is, what is the typical Android user like? I tend to surround myself with geeks, so I am not aware of the "typical Android user".

    The reason I ask is because I think Windows Phone has a better chance of attracting former Blackberry and possibly former Android users. iPhone users are probably too invested in the App Store/iTunes to switch. Android apps tend to be free, so there would be less "investment". BlackBerry does not have much to speak of in the way of popular apps, so switching is easy.

    However, if the "typical Android user" is a geek who likes to root the Android and install custom ROMs, then he/she might not want to switch.

    Does anyone have more information about Android users (percent that root/install custom ROMs)?

    That's false cause android didn't get where it's at by power users. It got where it's at cause it's cheap phones ranging from $50 to FREE. The average user doesn't care about high end specs. They just want a cool new phone that works for them. Most of the time it's what the store reps push on them. Like I said before my mom doesn't care about LTE. She's not new to smartphones. She owned the BlackBerry Curve, Samsung Epic 4G and now the Lumia 900 (I saved her from android). You think she got the Epic 4G cause it was 4G? No, you think she got it cause of the high specs at the time? No. She couldn't even tell you what the specs are. She just wanted a cool new phone.

    Believe it or not, there's still people even less knowledge than my mom. At least she has prior smartphone experience, there's people who are still amazed about touch screen technology. We are way past that. That's nothing to us. Lol
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  23. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Los View Post
    That's false cause android didn't get where it's at by power users. It got where it's at cause it's cheap phones ranging from $50 to FREE. The average user doesn't care about high end specs. They just want a cool new phone that works for them. Most of the time it's what the store reps push on them. Like I said before my mom doesn't care about LTE. She's not new to smartphones. She owned the BlackBerry Curve, Samsung Epic 4G and now the Lumia 900 (I saved her from android). You think she got the Epic 4G cause it was 4G? No, you think she got it cause of the high specs at the time? No. She couldn't even tell you what the specs are. She just wanted a cool new phone.

    Believe it or not, there's still people even less knowledge than my mom. At least she has prior smartphone experience, there's people who are still amazed about touch screen technology. We are way past that. That's nothing to us. Lol
    That's cool to know. Like I mentioned, the folks I know are mainly from Linux User Groups and geeky family members/friends (and their equally geeky kids). As a result, I do not have an idea of the Android demographics.

    I do know the carriers are promoting specs and especially LTE in the ads. Most people probably have no idea what it is, but when they see ads that say "fast" that's probably all that matters. I would not be surprised if a customer (whether new to smartphones or not) might just go into his carrier's store and say, "I want whatever is fastest."

    In a way, the whole smartphone "spec war" reminds me a lot of the PC "processor war" that took place a few years ago.

    It is even worse, since the ITU has not clarified the "4G" standard, so most folks have no clue of the difference between HSPA+, LTE, WiMax. The carriers purposely use that to their advantage in misleading ads.
  24. Los
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    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    That's cool to know. Like I mentioned, the folks I know are mainly from Linux User Groups and geeky family members/friends (and their equally geeky kids). As a result, I do not have an idea of the Android demographics.

    I do know the carriers are promoting specs and especially LTE in the ads. Most people probably have no idea what it is, but when they see ads that say "fast" that's probably all that matters. I would not be surprised if a customer (whether new to smartphones or not) might just go into his carrier's store and say, "I want whatever is fastest."

    In a way, the whole smartphone "spec war" reminds me a lot of the PC "processor war" that took place a few years ago.

    It is even worse, since the ITU has not clarified the "4G" standard, so most folks have no clue of the difference between HSPA+, LTE, WiMax. The carriers purposely use that to their advantage in misleading ads.
    Exactly, and that's why it doesn't matter at the end of the day.

    People here seem to underestimate how well those cheap crappy android phones sell. I see more people with cheap phones like the LG Optimus than I see with iphones or high end androids. Those cheap crappy phones are what drives android marketshare. I mean just look at android update percentage. Most people don't even update their phones, they are a whole lot of people running Froyo 2.2. That alone is telling you the type of people buying android. It's not all power users
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    Quote Originally Posted by Los View Post
    Whoa! back up for a second there now. Let's make it clear no one is ignoring Sprint or Verizon. It's Sprint and Verizon who choose to ignore WP right now
    It doesn't matter to us (the customers of Verizon and Sprint) why there are no WP on our carriers - there just aren't any. This is a HUGE problem if MS wants to build market share. They are missing out on 161 million users (over half the smartphone populations of the US). The longer people spend on Android or iOS the more they get used to the OS and familiarity breeds lockin - if there are shortcomings (I won't debate iOS vs Android vs WP7 on this thread - there are plenty others for that) then people get used to them or find workarounds and to switch requires a huge amount of pain for the user - there are things you will gain and things you will lose (yes, iOS and Android do have some areas of strength over WP7).
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