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  1. evilrobot's Avatar
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       #1  
    i don't know anyone else who owns a windows phone so I can't test this myself. i was wondering if live messenger for windows phone works like iMessage for iOS - meaning, can I just send someone a text message, and if they have a windows phone it will already know and send the message using live messenger instead of a regular text?

    Thanks!
  2. mprice86's Avatar
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    #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    i don't know anyone else who owns a windows phone so I can't test this myself. i was wondering if live messenger for windows phone works like iMessage for iOS - meaning, can I just send someone a text message, and if they have a windows phone it will already know and send the message using live messenger instead of a regular text?

    Thanks!
    The built in message app works with both live messenger and facebook chat, as well as text message. You can switch between the services mid conversation with someone without problem, but in order for a message to reach them they do have to be online to receive it unless it's a text message.

    When you open a pre-existing conversation it will automatically try to use what ever service it was using before, so if you were texting, you have to change it to MSN and so on.

    If you're starting a new conversation, when you're choosing the contact it will give their mobile, MSN and Facebook as options to choose from. But as I said, they have to be online in order for you to send a message to them. The only way for it to default to MSN for example, would be if you didn't have their phone number.
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  3. evilrobot's Avatar
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       #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by mprice86 View Post
    The built in message app works with both live messenger and facebook chat, as well as text message. You can switch between the services mid conversation with someone without problem, but in order for a message to reach them they do have to be online to receive it unless it's a text message.

    When you open a pre-existing conversation it will automatically try to use what ever service it was using before, so if you were texting, you have to change it to MSN and so on.

    If you're starting a new conversation, when you're choosing the contact it will give their mobile, MSN and Facebook as options to choose from. But as I said, they have to be online in order for you to send a message to them. The only way for it to default to MSN for example, would be if you didn't have their phone number.
    Thanks! That's a bummer, I hope they change it to work more like iMessage in a future update. Do you happen to know what constitutes 'online'? Like, if my wife's phone is on, but is currently locked with the screen off does that mean she will not be seen as online?
  4. Dagolara's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Thanks! That's a bummer, I hope they change it to work more like iMessage in a future update. Do you happen to know what constitutes 'online'? Like, if my wife's phone is on, but is currently locked with the screen off does that mean she will not be seen as online?
    Depends on what her chat status is set to.
    GT: ChaddMaia
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Thanks! That's a bummer, I hope they change it to work more like iMessage in a future update. Do you happen to know what constitutes 'online'? Like, if my wife's phone is on, but is currently locked with the screen off does that mean she will not be seen as online?

    This works better than iMessage as more people use Facebook and WLM than iMessage combined.
  6. InfectedPhreak's Avatar
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by eric12341 View Post
    This works better than iMessage as more people use Facebook and WLM than iMessage combined.
    I would say a lot more use Facebook then WLM. Around here, locally... I don't know anyone that uses WLM. They all got caught up in the AIM craze, and then when Facebook came out they all just used Facebook chat. A lot of my internet friends have switched to Skype. If Skype integrates into the core like WLM/Facebook Chat to make the use of Threads, it would be amazing. It could just be my friends, because I know internationally WLM is pretty much prime messenger.
  7. evilrobot's Avatar
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       #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by eric12341 View Post
    This works better than iMessage as more people use Facebook and WLM than iMessage combined.
    Hmm... that may be the case, but until it will send a message regardless of a persons online status I fail to see how it is better since iMessage will send no matter if they are online or not.
    alpinestars1z likes this.
  8. alpinestars1z's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Hmm... that may be the case, but until it will send a message regardless of a persons online status I fail to see how it is better since iMessage will send no matter if they are online or not.
    Yeah, I hate how I can't talk to someone who's "mobile" since WLM interprets that person as being "offline" on Facebook.
  9. scottcraft's Avatar
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    #9  
    iMessage is Apples version of whatsapp and kik messenger. It serves a different purpose than Windows live messenger.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Hmm... that may be the case, but until it will send a message regardless of a persons online status I fail to see how it is better since iMessage will send no matter if they are online or not.
    then you text them
  11. phazer89's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Hmm... that may be the case, but until it will send a message regardless of a persons online status I fail to see how it is better since iMessage will send no matter if they are online or not.
    It does send offline messages as well, I tried sending one to my friend when he was offline, asking him to reply, and he did when he was on. That's for Messenger though, I don't think Facebook Chat works if a contact is offline (ideally it should, since it has been merged with the Message system for some time), sadly.
  12. btbam91's Avatar
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    #12  
    I wish they'd follow an iMessage model as well. That is a lot a better.
    Strings78 likes this.
  13. InfectedPhreak's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by btbam91 View Post
    I wish they'd follow an iMessage model as well. That is a lot a better.
    iMessage is an application that's trying to stir even more customers from BB to iOS. I don't think WP wants to go down that same road as of yet. With so many cross platform apps like Kik or WhatsApp and others... there isn't really much of a need for standard platform apps like BBM and iMessage. It is a possibility that we'll see a change in the future, due to Skype integration, there is still hope.
  14. N8ter's Avatar
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    #14  
    You send a message:

    iMessage: Message goes to their Mac, iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad, MacBook. - iMessage is tied to both AppleID and Phone Numbers. If the person doens't have an iPhone, iMessage knows because it checks the Number against Apple's database when you put it in, and it will send it as a text instead (easy to see this happening, especially on an iTouch).

    WLM: Message goes only to where WLM is logged in. If they have it logged into their Desktop, but have no WLM client on their PC, you run the risk of the phone prioritizing the IM service and sending the message to a location where the person won't even recieve it (i.e. their PC is logged in, but they're at the mall). The only thing that may save you is if they're logged into Facebook, since the chances of an Android/iOS user having Facebook/Facebook Messenger installed is very high compared to WLM. The whole "will send to the best place" simply doesn't work with the WP7 client unless it picks FB where it may be decently reliable for the reason above, because the phone cannot predict how people are using their devices. iMessage doesn't need to do this, cause it's on all apple devices, anyways. Any other device, it can reliable send a text message instead (and will).

    That's a huge difference in usability/experience.

    In that respect, iMessage routing is more reliable, although WP7's Messaging client is a bit more flexible in that it supports WLM/FB and SMS/MMS instead of just iMessage and MMS.

    The only thing that iMessage does that is similar to BBM is allow you to chat (like any IM client before BBM) and tell you if the message was delivered or read (which apps like Kik and Cnectd did before iMessage). Other than that it works different. BBM isn't even integrated into the stock SMS client on BB. It's a separate application.

    All iMessage does is allow iPhone users to forgo SMS/MMS and use data instead, without having to launch yet another client. And BBM is BB only with no decent Desktop integration akin to what Apple is doing in their desktop OS with iMessage.

    Apple doesn't need to copy to steal RIM customers. RIM seems to be pushing them to go :P

    P.S. Android is actually eating into BB marketshare a lot more than Apple is.
  15. N8ter's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by eric12341 View Post
    then you text them
    The difference the user is pointing out is that iMessage is reliable in this manner regardless whether the person is online or not - it even allows you to see if it's been delivered or read (read only if the person sets their device up to let you know). You don't have to *care* whether they're online or not. You know the message will be delivered, and it lets you know so.

    If they're offline, it won't mark it as delivered until they turn one of their devices on and the message actually gets delivered.

    And the other user is right. You cannot send offline facebook messages, and using the app is a bad compromize because then it will be an offline message conversation and you won't see them in the Message Hub nor will you get reliable (or quick) push notifications for replies.
  16. phazer89's Avatar
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    #16  
    The thing about iMessage is, it's only good if you have a lot of (or just enough of) friends with an iDevice, which is probably the case. I don't know about you, but a similar feature on WP7 would be useless for me since my friends aren't using WP7. Still, a feature is a feature after all, good to have even if it may not be very useful, or at least for now (?).

    Quote Originally Posted by N8ter View Post
    WLM: Message goes only to where WLM is logged in. If they have it logged into their Desktop, but have no WLM client on their PC, you run the risk of the phone prioritizing the IM service and sending the message to a location where the person won't even recieve it (i.e. their PC is logged in, but they're at the mall). The only thing that may save you is if they're logged into Facebook, since the chances of an Android/iOS user having Facebook/Facebook Messenger installed is very high compared to WLM. The whole "will send to the best place" simply doesn't work with the WP7 client unless it picks FB where it may be decently reliable for the reason above, because the phone cannot predict how people are using their devices. iMessage doesn't need to do this, cause it's on all apple devices, anyways. Any other device, it can reliable send a text message instead (and will).
    If you are signed in to multiple locations (e.g. WLM client, WP7, Windows 8 Messenger) the message will appear on wherever you're signed in to. I assume if a contact is offline, the message will be delivered to the first place he/she signs in to thereafter.

    I noticed that WP7 won't receive messages if you're actively chatting on the WLM client, but if you stop chatting for a while and you receive a message, it'll be sent to both places. Which is pretty good so your phone doesn't get bombarded when you're chatting on the desktop, and also for resuming conversations on your phone, even if you left your WLM client on. On the other hand, if you're only chatting on WP7, your WLM client will still show both yours and your contact's messages.
  17. rluka's Avatar
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    #17  
    The Messaging client in the phone doesn't seem to be keeping the connection open when the user is not having Messaging apps up front.
    At least everytime I opened the Messaging app the phone will go through signing in process again.

    So this means very likely the messages will be sent through SMS when I'm not actively using the Messaging application because my status went offline.

    CMIIW please
  18. Strings78's Avatar
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    #18  
    Honestly, iMessage is the only thing that i miss from my iPhone before i switched to WP7, it was really nice to interact with other iDevice users and know when the messages were delivered. Kinda forced a response. Create smething that you can use to text or send messages between a windows pc, tablet and phone that is not WLM and you have a winner.
  19. jimski's Avatar
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    #19  
    Personally, I would never want to use a messaging service that "required" users to own a specific brand of device. Guess that's why I have never owned a BB or iDevice. Damn all this proprietary BS.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
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  20. phazer89's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by rluka View Post
    The Messaging client in the phone doesn't seem to be keeping the connection open when the user is not having Messaging apps up front.
    At least everytime I opened the Messaging app the phone will go through signing in process again.

    So this means very likely the messages will be sent through SMS when I'm not actively using the Messaging application because my status went offline.

    CMIIW please
    There isn't really a sign in process, when you switch to the "online" tab it just refreshes online contacts (I think).

    In any case I've received messages when the Messaging app was closed. As long as your status isn't set to Offline, your Messenger should always be on unless you lose connection or have battery saver on.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimski View Post
    Personally, I would never want to use a messaging service that "required" users to own a specific brand of device. Guess that's why I have never owned a BB or iDevice. Damn all this proprietary BS.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    Either way you can still SMS and use third-party apps, device-specific messengers are just a bonus, or maybe even a reason to get a device. It's pretty much impossible to get companies to create an "official" cross-platform messaging system anyway.
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  21. N8ter's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by phazer89 View Post
    If you are signed in to multiple locations (e.g. WLM client, WP7, Windows 8 Messenger) the message will appear on wherever you're signed in to. I assume if a contact is offline, the message will be delivered to the first place he/she signs in to thereafter.

    I noticed that WP7 won't receive messages if you're actively chatting on the WLM client, but if you stop chatting for a while and you receive a message, it'll be sent to both places. Which is pretty good so your phone doesn't get bombarded when you're chatting on the desktop, and also for resuming conversations on your phone, even if you left your WLM client on. On the other hand, if you're only chatting on WP7, your WLM client will still show both yours and your contact's messages.
    I noticed that right when Mango went live (made a few videos demonstrating it). The WP7 WLM client is very volatile when it comes to Multiple Points of Presense support to the point of being useless when you move between different device form factors a lot. All of Microsoft's other Official Live Messenger clients work properly, though (Windows Mobile, iOS). Only WP7 has this issue, so it's definitely not a normal behavior for an IM client (WLM, Yahoo, Google Talk, iMessage, whatever they all generally work the same except for this issue on WP7). It's actually an issue, but some people are trying to assist off as a "feature." I wonder if it's logged as such at the support site...

    For me even my MMORPG game has WLM built into it, so it's one that constantly plagues me, but I get around it by simply not using the WP7 device for WLM, and using the iTouch instead (I just don't sign in on my Windows Phone, since it messes up how conversations end up on the other devices/clients that work properly).

    Additionally, The reason why iMessage is superior is because it does the same thing an IM service does, except you don't have to log into it at all - you just have to turn the phone on. WLM requires you to be logged in, even on your device, and IM clients can drop connections at times causing you to have to toggle the online status or sign in again. Clients like BBM and iMessage don't have this issue because of the way the messages are pushed directly to the device.

    iDevices and Macs are so prolific these days that you can reliably downgrade your SMS/MMS plan just because of it in many cases.
  22. phazer89's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by N8ter View Post
    I noticed that right when Mango went live (made a few videos demonstrating it). The WP7 WLM client is very volatile when it comes to Multiple Points of Presense support to the point of being useless when you move between different device form factors a lot. All of Microsoft's other Official Live Messenger clients work properly, though (Windows Mobile, iOS). Only WP7 has this issue, so it's definitely not a normal behavior for an IM client (WLM, Yahoo, Google Talk, iMessage, whatever they all generally work the same except for this issue on WP7). It's actually an issue, but some people are trying to assist off as a "feature." I wonder if it's logged as such at the support site...

    For me even my MMORPG game has WLM built into it, so it's one that constantly plagues me, but I get around it by simply not using the WP7 device for WLM, and using the iTouch instead (I just don't sign in on my Windows Phone, since it messes up how conversations end up on the other devices/clients that work properly).

    Additionally, The reason why iMessage is superior is because it does the same thing an IM service does, except you don't have to log into it at all - you just have to turn the phone on. WLM requires you to be logged in, even on your device, and IM clients can drop connections at times causing you to have to toggle the online status or sign in again. Clients like BBM and iMessage don't have this issue because of the way the messages are pushed directly to the device.

    iDevices and Macs are so prolific these days that you can reliably downgrade your SMS/MMS plan just because of it in many cases.
    I do consider it a feature. As I said, I don't need my phone to be have endless notifications when I'm chatting on WLM on my PC. And I don't want to have to turn Messenger on/off whenever I'm at my PC or if I'm heading out. As it is, it works just fine. If someone starts a conversation, I receive it on my phone and PC, if I continue chatting on the PC my phone stops receiving messages, unless nobody has replied in a while.

    About the second point, even if I lose connection Messenger signs in automatically when connection is back up. Not sure why you would need to sign in again. Not sure how it handles offline messaging though. I've tried sending to offline contacts, which works, but haven't had them sending me offline messages.

    Edit// Offline messaging works both ways.

    That said, I'm using it as a substitute for WLM, not for Whatsapp or other messaging platforms. That is, I'll mostly be chatting with someone only if they're online. My friends aren't using WLM as much nowadays, and those that do are almost always on anyway. Having offline support for the integrated FB chat would be great though, since just about everyone uses it.
    Last edited by phazer89; 04-09-2012 at 09:54 AM.
  23. evilrobot's Avatar
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       #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by eric12341 View Post
    then you text them
    That costs money, I don't want to spend it.
  24. InfectedPhreak's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by phazer89 View Post
    That said, I'm using it as a substitute for WLM, not for Whatsapp or other messaging platforms. That is, I'll mostly be chatting with someone only if they're online. My friends aren't using WLM as much nowadays, and those that do are almost always on anyway. Having offline support for the integrated FB chat would be great though, since just about everyone uses it.
    That's my point. I rarely know anyone that uses WLM, even I hardly use it. Counting on Facebook chat or Skype in the future for stuff like this. I think if Skype does get integrated, and the way Skype handles messaging and logging... It would work out better.

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