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  1. canesfan625's Avatar
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       #1  
    Anyone else feel like things are just getting silly between the NoDo drama queens and now people trying to throw around numbers saying the platform is failing because dev interest has dropped an insignificant amount?

    NoDo has been a significant bump in the road but far from a disaster. I can think of worse times with Android and even when I had my Instinct that could be considered disasters. Also, this happening is good in the long run as there are always issues with new products that need to be fleshed out.

    I've seen comment that at&t adding in their bloatware apps has now officially made Windows Phone fragmented and this is incorrect unless I'm missing something and they are making proprietary changes to the OS and not just adding in apps.

    lastly I think we are seeing what exactly should have been expected. Until Mango drops it seems devs have hit a brick wall of sorts with what they can do. I'm willing to bet that once mango hits we will see an increase.
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  2. jdunn's Avatar
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    #2  
    I believe AT&T did add their own modifications to te NoDo update, which is why it took so long. AT&T address book and WISPr were both added. There were also some minor tweaks to make the phones run a little better. I think it is a bad thong though. AT&T will take as much as you will give them. It should not be up to the carrier when I get an update to my phone, and we should be allowed to select which of AT&T's additions to the OS we actually want to install.
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  3. dtboos's Avatar
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    #3  
    AT&T took longer than they really should have, and you can bet Microsoft will be riding their a##es come Mango. Microsoft does not want the platform to suffer like it did with NoDo, and they know keeping their early adopter/techie fans happy is pretty key these days.

    NoDo was the first update, on a unique platform, so a bump in the road was pretty much expected...just not quite what we saw in the end (especially on AT&T). I think the next ones will go much smoother.
  4. Duvi's Avatar
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    #4  
    i do think it's silly. i think at&t does what they think is best for their network and phone quality. the last time at&t didn't test a phone extensively, the network almost crumbled for a lot of users, especially in NYC and San Francisco. that phone was the iPhone. consumers have a short memory... they want to sue at&t for network issues, then they want to whine about them taking forever to test. damned if they do, damned if they don't.

    fragmentation... everyone likes to use that word without really understanding it. at&t adding those features won't stop other apps from working. with android, you have a crap load of OS versions and then each manufacturers own coating (Blur, Sense UI) and the apps on the same OS version (example 2.3), they'll have apps that won't work on that OS or a separate version has to be made (Qik for Motorola devices).

    and yes, i believe mango will help gain dev support. multitasking support is a big one. apps like Skype, Pandora and TomTom (as well as related apps,) are ones that could i can see benefiting.

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  5. cdub66's Avatar
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    #5  
    Unfortunately, it's peoples' nature to complain-and it's just getting worse as "Generation Me" takes hold.

    This marks my 30th year in a customer service oriented job..I've quit and am seeking employment where kissing undeserving **** isn't part of the job description.

    Sorry-bit off track...but it's not just the cellphone forums where peoples expectations have become unrealistic.
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  6. #6  
    NoDo has been and gone, for people to continue to moan about it now is beyond me. I remember seeing someone on Twitter complaina bout Microsoft not sending it out quick enough as he's only just received it from AT&T. Well dude, I've had NoDo on Three for a while now so I highly doubt it has anything to do with Microsoft. People are more willing to moan than to praise when it comes to Microsoft.

    "10K apps already? Meh. Third OS on marketshare, developer interest, etc.? Meh."
    "An update not arriving yet? OMGWTFLOLCOPTER!? MICROSOFT U SUCKSORZ!"

    I guess that's how it's always going to be until the ridiculously dimwitted smartphone users on other OSs actually try WP7 and appreciate it for what it is - a smartphone OS. I like it how we can just order a new device, turn it on and we're all set. With Android you have to tweak it to look the way you want, you have to hunt down quality apps on the Marketplace while on the iPhone you have to agree to a million user agreements for the App Store, which seem to be amended on a daily basis and you have to hunt through the sheer volume of "LITE" and "LIVE" apps that should all be removed.

    Ah the "trial" option in WP7, how I love you so for keeping the Marketplace clean of duplicates.

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  7. jimski's Avatar
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    Guess you dont have a Surround then. Given up on checking and one day, someday, I may be pleasantly surprised. But I do think that updates should not be bundled. So I should already be enjoying c&p & Marketplace improvemets while waiting for HTC to give me a bug fix patch. No reason to hold up one thing while waiting to finish another. With technology, nothing is ever "finished". Always a moving target.

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  8. canesfan625's Avatar
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       #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimski View Post
    Guess you dont have a Surround then. Given up on checking and one day, someday, I may be pleasantly surprised. But I do think that updates should not be bundled. So I should already be enjoying c&p & Marketplace improvemets while waiting for HTC to give me a bug fix patch. No reason to hold up one thing while waiting to finish another. With technology, nothing is ever "finished". Always a moving target.

    Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express
    Its already been announced that Surround will not be getting the update until mid may because ATT still testing.
  9. jalb's Avatar
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    #9  
    I agree. In fact I am exchanging my surround for a focus this week. I like the little speakers but I a not interested in being half a year behind on every update.
  10. Duvi's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by RichEdmonds View Post
    "10K apps already? Meh. Third OS on marketshare, developer interest, etc.? Meh."
    "An update not arriving yet? OMGWTFLOLCOPTER!? MICROSOFT U SUCKSORZ!"
    now that's funny. "OMGWTFLOLCOPTER" almost made me choke on my raspberry iced tea. lmao. :lol:

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  11. CJ Thunder's Avatar
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    #11  
    Of course there is drama. MS said they would do it better, and thus far not that case.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffdunn2010 View Post
    I believe AT&T did add their own modifications to te NoDo update, which is why it took so long. AT&T address book and WISPr were both added. There were also some minor tweaks to make the phones run a little better. I think it is a bad thong though. AT&T will take as much as you will give them. It should not be up to the carrier when I get an update to my phone, and we should be allowed to select which of AT&T's additions to the OS we actually want to install.
    I thought there are laws about not notifying what gets put on my computer?
    Is it not mine because I am in a contract?

    It is just terrbile. Lets see how quick we get our secure browsing back as well. Do we think Apple with get their iSpy thing handled quicker?
  12. starblade876's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Thunder View Post
    Of course there is drama. MS said they would do it better, and thus far not that case.
    Except that they have done better already. All phones are definitely eventually getting the update within a month or so from each other, which is far better than several months or if they even get it at all.
  13. Winterfang's Avatar
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    #13  
    This happens everywhere and the platforming has failed to set the market on fire. That being said I have being seeing more WP7 phones on the wild lately ( I work selling Cellphone accessories) so the growth may be slow but steady.

    Thankfully my Phone came out ready for Nodo so I didn't had that nightmare, I think most people do have the right to complain and they complain that much because they love the OS and want it to be better.
  14. gentry33's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Canesfan625 View Post
    Its already been announced that Surround will not be getting the update until mid may because ATT still testing.
    We know this. I think that was jimski's point when he said that one day he might be pleasantly surprised. Testing 1,2,3...testing 1,2,3... testing 1,2...
  15. jimski's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Canesfan625 View Post
    Its already been announced that Surround will not be getting the update until mid may because ATT still testing.
    I know, but not going to allow some forecasted date to take away from my enjoying this phone. Till I get it, I dont have it. End of story. Non branded phones got the update and they didn't explode so nothing to test, except for crapware.

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  16. jdunn's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Canesfan625 View Post
    Its already been announced that Surround will not be getting the update until mid may because ATT still testing.
    Well here you go. Get your Surrounds ready everyone.

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  17. canesfan625's Avatar
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       #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Thunder View Post
    Of course there is drama. MS said they would do it better, and thus far not that case.



    I thought there are laws about not notifying what gets put on my computer?
    Is it not mine because I am in a contract?

    It is just terrbile. Lets see how quick we get our secure browsing back as well. Do we think Apple with get their iSpy thing handled quicker?
    your phone isn't your computer. and what weren't you notified about? ever bought a dell computer? they at least used to come with apps no one cares about.

    I know, but not going to allow some forecasted date to take away from my enjoying this phone. Till I get it, I dont have it. End of story. Non branded phones got the update and they didn't explode so nothing to test, except for crapware.
    sadly this thread its proving the point all by itself. by your logic why test anything? works on one it must work on all, right? no

    I don't care about how NoDo performs on European/forced updated phones. Different carrier, different network, different hardware. Don't forget that even with the iPhone being a fairly locked down spec apple still extensively field tests iOS before release. Remember the RIM issue? they threw out and update, I cant remember the version, that BROKE touch screens and verizon had to release a patch to fix. As pointed out earlier the "crapware" they are testing is the address book and WISPr. Since WISPr has been submitted to the Wi-Fi Alliance I don't know if its in the position to be called crapware yet. The ACTUAL bloatware (the like 5 apps or whatever they add) is more than unlikely not holding up anything.
    Last edited by Canesfan625; 04-28-2011 at 07:47 AM.
  18. jimski's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Canesfan625 View Post
    I don't care about how NoDo performs on European/forced updated phones. Different carrier, different network, different hardware. Don't forget that even with the iPhone being a fairly locked down spec apple still extensively field tests iOS before release. Remember the RIM issue? they threw out and update, I cant remember the version, that BROKE touch screens and verizon had to release a patch to fix. As pointed out earlier the "crapware" they are testing is the address book and WISPr. Since WISPr has been submitted to the Wi-Fi Alliance I don't know if its in the position to be called crapware yet. The ACTUAL bloatware (the like 5 apps or whatever they add) is more than unlikely not holding up anything.
    Point is, Microsoft did extensive testing with their NoDo update. So give it the blessing then push it out. If AT&T wants to give us bloatware or goodware, that fine (well not really, but what can I do) but do it on your own schedule without holding anything up, and please test the crap out of it first. Back when, updates were big complicated processes, but now its as easy as plugging into Zune. Or at least that's what I have read as I have yet to see an update. Maybe AT&T wants to bundle though cause they fear you may not want to install their update. What's that say. Bottom line, updates no longer need to be bundled. More frequent updates make users happy and also easier to identify problems when something goes wrong.

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  19. canesfan625's Avatar
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       #19  
    Going straight from Microsoft to phone would eventually end bad. It even already has in the form of Samsung pre nodo. So obviously there is something to test called firmware since its different across so many devices and also questioning your extensive testing theory. I agree that carries shouldn't test but the hardware vendors should. I don't see that happening so we are stuck with carriers.
  20. jimski's Avatar
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    #20  
    Everybody has to test, Microsoft, OEM's and Carriers. And with all the different drivers they install, the OEM's have the most to do. I just don't appreciate OEM's, and to a lesser degree, Carriers, holding up Microsoft focused updates to add their own poorly optimized code. Try the Microsoft update on your test devices and if it works as expected, push it through.

    Pre-nodo was a result of Samsung doing something unusual with memory, being the only device that permitted SD addons/upgrades. It shouldn't have happened but just possibly Samsung did not fully share what they did to make the Nand & SD memory play nice. Back to that poorly optimized code comment.

    And while I realize the buck stops with the Carriers, meaning they take the flack for everyone's mistakes, what do they really optimize on a stock WP7 device. How involved is their testing. And I would really like to know how often they find something supplied by Microsoft that is incompatible with their networks.

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  21. jimski's Avatar
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    #21  
    Hey, btw I didn't do that. Board Express did.

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  22. canesfan625's Avatar
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       #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimski View Post
    Everybody has to test, Microsoft, OEM's and Carriers. And with all the different drivers they install, the OEM's have the most to do. I just don't appreciate OEM's, and to a lesser degree, Carriers, holding up Microsoft focused updates to add their own poorly optimized code. Try the Microsoft update on your test devices and if it works as expected, push it through.

    Pre-nodo was a result of Samsung doing something unusual with memory, being the only device that permitted SD addons/upgrades. It shouldn't have happened but just possibly Samsung did not fully share what they did to make the Nand & SD memory play nice. Back to that poorly optimized code comment.

    And while I realize the buck stops with the Carriers, meaning they take the flack for everyone's mistakes, what do they really optimize on a stock WP7 device. How involved is their testing. And I would really like to know how often they find something supplied by Microsoft that is incompatible with their networks.

    Sent from my HTC Surround using Board Express
    its difficult to say what is optimized if anything. I would assume they do a bit more specific field testing than Microsoft though. Its been pointed out that from the mango images and whatnot it looks like they use the Asus dev devices at least in part. Sdex
  23. CJ Thunder's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Canesfan625 View Post
    your phone isn't your computer. and what weren't you notified about? ever bought a dell computer? they at least used to come with apps no one cares about.


    And it takes hours to get a computer up and running from them. My point was when you install yahoo mail, it needs to ask your permision to install yahoo toolbar.

    And why is my Focus not a computer?

    Quote Originally Posted by starblade876 View Post
    Except that they have done better already. All phones are definitely eventually getting the update within a month or so from each other, which is far better than several months or if they even get it at all.
    Fragmentation wise, so far so good, I meant little fixes, we all want and clamor for.
  24. canesfan625's Avatar
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       #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Thunder View Post
    And it takes hours to get a computer up and running from them. My point was when you install yahoo mail, it needs to ask your permision to install yahoo toolbar.

    And why is my Focus not a computer?



    Fragmentation wise, so far so good, I meant little fixes, we all want and clamor for.
    legally(unless it changed recently) your phone is not a computer. I know of a case where thats trying to be changed I don't know if it has yet. In fact earlier this year a ruling was passed that said police could search your phone without a warrant. The yahoo toolbar analogy doesn't apply here. They can pre-install whatever they want onto the phone and then you buy it ergo you agree to their terms. Also, yahoo toolbar needs permission because of privacy issues. I don't think it would apply to WISPr or the contacts anyway being a function and not a random tetris demo app.
  25. Averry's Avatar
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    #25  
    I may be a rabblerouser but i'll ride Microsoft to the grave with this thing If I think they'll be better for it.


    That said, I've pimped my Winodws Phone like a go-cart for rent.


    The Focus being $50, and the Quantum being free has definitely driven sales, and when more people see them, the more likely they'll be to pick them up.

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