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  1. gilezzz's Avatar
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       #1  
    I have been using Windows 8 on a number of desktop and laptop computers, and I didn't like the experience. In short words:
    where Windows 7 was simple (taskbar and windows) and flexible, Windows 8 is complicated and rigid. Lots of different menus to swipe, two different interfaces, use of different input methods not suitable for both (touch with desktop and tiles with mouse).

    Now, what I want back is flexibility and simplicity. I am talking about desktop PCs and non-touch notebooks. These are a few things that could be added to 8.1:

    1. Flexibility: when I buy my new PC and turn it on the first time, I want Windows 8 to ASK ME what kind of machine I am using then adjust the interface accordingly. Tablet? Laptop with touch screen? Without touch screen? All-in-one? Desktop?
      After I choose, Windows should adjust accordingly the following things: a) Boot to desktop or Modern UI b) Adjust the tile size relative to screen resolution and size (so that they are not awkwardly big) c) Adjust the icon spacing and menu spacing on the desktop so that it is suitable for touch if I selected touch.
    2. Simplicity: if I am using a big screen (for instance >13") or don't have a touch display, disable the top hot corners of the display, or better just disable the "app switch" menu on the left. This serves to simplify the interface, I don't need so many different menus and ways to open them. I don't actually need so much the 2 menus either, on a desktop. This is a case of "too many choices" for menus that are not necessary if I am not using a tablet. Keep it simple. [I guess this feature is there in 8.1, but I would like to be activated automatically after I specify the kind of machine I'm using]
    3. Flexibility: let me open Modern UI apps in a window on the desktop, if I want. Just ask me the first time I open it. Whenever I open a file on the desktop ask me if I want the Modern UI app that opens that file to run in a window on the desktop. It's really annoying to open a music file, a photo etc, and have this big full screen thing coming up. Additionally, give me the option to open whatever Modern UI app in a window on the desktop using a right button menu command or similar.


    In the long term, instead, the issue is bridging the gap between desktop and Modern UI. My humble suggestion:

    • Merge Desktop and Modern UI! The desktop and start screen have to become one single thing. Take the Start screen and allow me to create folders, put files on the start screen and re-arrange them as I like. And of course open them in windows or full-screen.
      The elements on the screen will be tiles instead of the icons of Windows 7, and the tile arrangement can be the same as the Windows 8 Start screen, so that they will be automatically re-arranged well on a smaller screen or smaller device.


    I am not talking about going back to the old desktop. This is all about REALLY integrating the 2 interfaces into something that can be used in a flexible and simple way on most devices.
    Thanks for reading this.
    rdubmu likes this.
  2. #2  
    I just want it merged. I want the modern UI with a task bar :)

    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Tapatalk
  3. #3  
    Also, I wouldn't change how it works,windows 8 should run the same on any device and be optimized for mouse and touch
  4. crash1989's Avatar
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    #4  
    start using shortcuts .. it will help ..
    Laura Knotek likes this.
  5. Jaskys's Avatar
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    #5  
    Great idea "let me open Modern UI apps in a window on the desktop"
    But you can do it already by getting apps to side.
  6. #6  
    I think they have to reimagine the taskbar and applist(thing that pops up to the left of the screen) to work both on desktop and metro. I have no idea how but it should be the place to go to access all opened/pinned programs/app, so they can get rid of either one.
    gilezzz likes this.
  7. Coreldan's Avatar
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    #7  
    Using Windows 7 was simple cos we've used the exact same interface for over a decade. It's not that it's baseline all that intuitive, we are just used to it. Win 8 isn't really any less intuitive, you just arn't used to it.

    Personally I prefer Win 8 over Win 7 on any device after getting used to it, I feel it's much more efficient in most things once you get a hang of it and you learn to efficiently weave between the modern UI and desktop and get the best out of both worlds.
    Last edited by Coreldan; 07-09-2013 at 06:41 AM.
  8. _Emi_'s Avatar
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    #8  
    simplicity and windows 7? only because it had the taskbar? (the same taskbar you have in win8 though).

    that's not simplicity, that's just familiarity, because the same UI that you and everyone else (who used windows) used since win95, so you got used to it... its not simple or flexible, its just you are used to it. and it sounds like you just don't want to accommodate to the new UI and you are instead asking Microsoft to accommodate it for you... which is kinda illogic since windows 8 is easier to use in many ways.
    but of course if you cant deal with it, you can always stay in windows 7 or vista, or go to Linux or OSX. because no matter how much you want those changes... Microsoft is not going to add most of them.

    Windows 8 a touch interface? wow...
    because Windows 8 in fact works better with mouse (and keyboard), I don't know how people can still think its for touch UI... I wish i could understand that point., or why windows 8 works perfectly fine with my mouse.
    because I really don't get how bigger "icons" and "buttons" make it hard to use for a mouse?... hmm wouldn't in fact it make it easier since you wont probably missclick?
    oh and by the way, I use mostly mouse to navigate around Windows... I rarely use shortcuts, because if I have my hand in my mouse, why would I go to keyboard to do something I can do almost in the same time or faster?

    The only "functionality" of old start menu that you cant find in new start screen, its only Jump Lists, so as I understand, not having this feature make it not a Desktop PC friendly? because apart from that, and how its obvious fullscreen, it doesn't change much, how both function.

    IN FACT I would think small icons, and "all programs" infested with small folders, and one missclick and you had to start over, would be less mouse friendly. I mean... you didn't say how you use windows 7 and before. I suppose you use mouse for everything like I do. because if you now tell me you used search in win7 and win8. then you don't have anything to complain about win8, since you can just type in start screen and it will search.
    But I never liked Windows 7, or now 8.1 search. so I rarely used it.

    and you talk about a lot of swipe... the only times I have to go corners, its for the shutdown button (but there are a lot of ways of shutting down a computer), because I like doing it on setting charm. but apart from that and sometimes using the appswitcher (I don't like using alt+tab), and of course some settings I have to adjust in an app. I really don't have to do a lot of "swipe" (which is not hard at all). and the charms and appswitcher, is used only if YOU want to use win8 apps. which leads me to my next point.

    Win8 apps: you talk about it like if you were forced to use them, and my question would be, "why no keep using desktop apps?". you say "when I open a file it win8 version comes" but really... cant you right click -> open with and then open that file with a desktop app forever? is it so hard?
    win8 apps is just an optional plus in win8, you can find them useful or not, but since you can obviously keep using only desktop apps, then I don't see the problem about use only them.
    you even say "windowed win8 apps" but why? why would be the point of making a new runtime, which is touch optimized, which is meant to run fullscreen. if you are going to stick it in desktop? being honest, you can find the same functionality in desktop apps or better, so why not just download one of the many alternatives in desktop apps to do the same task you want to accomplish, and then never use a win8 alternative. one example is MetroTwit. why would you download the win8 app, if you are going to complain about how to go to settings you have to use charms bar, or getting some menus you have to right click, or it wont be windowed as you wish, if you can download the same metrotwit desktop version and be happy?
    I really mean it, if you love your desktop life so much (which you don't have to change in windows 8) why you want to use win8 apps and then want it to be windowed? you would have to use charms anyway to access settings probably, while you can use the same apps you used in win7 and never have to see charms while using those desktop apps.

    in Windows 8.1 you can adjust many things, like disable top right corner, and of course disable appswitcher (which you could do in win8), go to all apps in start screen so you don't have to pin any app to start screen.

    I still would love to hear which simplicity windows 8 takes away from win7. since windows 8 can do task faster than windows 7. for example, when you want to uninstall a program, how did you do it in Win7. no matter what you say, in windows 8, you have a right click in left bottom corner and there is a simple "programs and features". and in 2 clicks you are there. same with power options, or device manager or disk management, or event viewer (see how I say its easier to access windows with mouse?, since you don't have this menu using touch).

    of course we all use differently Windows, but the functionality of Windows 7 start menu, of seeing an icon with "paint" word on it and clicking on it to launch it, its the same thing you do in win8 to launch apps. so I still don't get how something can be more simple if it works almost the same, and sometimes the new thing works faster and better.
    and you say "I am not talking about going back to the old desktop" but all your points and your suggestions are meant for you to stay in desktop, and don't have to deal with new Windows 8 elements. (which you can do) the only thing that would change is instead of using a start menu to launch apps you can use a fullscreen launcher, and again, I don't know how that would be less simple than the small infested folder all program world of start menu.

    anyway, in the end not a single person but Microsoft knows what they are going to do in future, or what they are working on Windows right now. we don't know how Start screen will look or what features it will have next year, or in 2 years or Win9.
    its not like in one week they made windows 8! it was work of years, so no matter how many people think they are smarter than Microsoft and Windows division, giving ideas like if MS didn't know how to make their OS and like if Microsoft doesn't think of many scenarios on how to build Windows. This new vision with windows simply wont be a 1 month work, and implementing some stuff will take years, and a lot of testing, and changes, and remove other things in the process.

    I of course voice just like you, many features I want for next Windows releases but only because its easy to type them in a forum, it doesn't mean its easy and fast to code and implement them in a big software with millions lines of code like Windows OS.
  9. #9  
    awesome emi strikes
  10. gilezzz's Avatar
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       #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskys View Post
    Great idea "let me open Modern UI apps in a window on the desktop"
    But you can do it already by getting apps to side.
    Wait a sec: that is opening an app full screen then swiping it to the side. Outside of the desktop. Perfectly ok with that on my RT device but not on my desktop PC.
    Thanked by:
    Tom Snyder likes this.
  11. gilezzz's Avatar
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       #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Coreldan View Post
    Using Windows 7 was simple cos we've used the exact same interface for over a decade. It's not that it's baseline all that intuitive, we are just used to it. Win 8 isn't really any less intuitive, you just arn't used to it.....
    I fully respect your point, but I do technical training and have been using Windows 8 for many months now. Windows 8 is less intuitive because it has 2 distinct interfaces (desktop and metro) which are totally different and still are together in one OS. This is not something we can go around, and it is an issue that has to be fixed. I am not saying that metro is bad. I actually like it. I am saying that having the two things together is not how an OS should work. Furthermore, this OS makes no effort to customize its interface to the device you are using. And this is a problem on traditional desktop and laptop PCs.
    Thanked by:
    Tom Snyder likes this.
  12. gilezzz's Avatar
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       #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by _Emi_ View Post
    .. it sounds like you just don't want to accommodate to the new UI and you are instead asking Microsoft to accommodate it for you... ... no matter how much you want those changes... Microsoft is not going to add most of them.
    _Emi_, please don't take it as a rant against Windows 8. I understand you love Windows 8 and that's great. I don't hate it, really. This OS doesn't "feel" right to me, so I took some time to think about how it could be improved. All personal opinions, and I am happy to hear yours.

    Now, I definitely hope that I am the only one having these feelings about Windows 8 and that I am terribly wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Emi_ View Post
    .. so no matter how many people think they are smarter than Microsoft and Windows division, giving ideas like if MS didn't know how to make their OS and like if Microsoft doesn't think of many scenarios on how to build Windows..
    ..I of course voice just like you, many features I want for next Windows releases but only because its easy to type them in a forum, it doesn't mean its easy and fast to code and implement them in a big software with millions lines of code like Windows OS.
    Again: voicing one's opinions is called "customer feedback". I mean in no way to diminish Microsoft people, and I know it is easy to type in a forum. I hope they read forums, too. I wrote my post in what I hope is a clear and organized reasoning. But sure I cannot decide anything. Let's call it food for thought, shall we?

    (and thanks again for helping me with the "compatibility view settings" menu on IE 11)
    Last edited by gilezzz; 07-09-2013 at 11:54 PM.
    romant56 likes this.
  13. spaulagain's Avatar
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    #13  
    Windows 8 is a little confusing at first. But once you figure it all out, it is a dream to use. There are so many awesome features. Microsoft took a lot of feedback from Win7 users, etc. and I think they applied it very well.

    I hardly consider Windows 7 "simple." It's just traditional or known.

    The funny thing about interfaces, is often UI features that are difficult to discover, are the best and most efficient features.

    For example in Windows 7 you can drag a window to the top of the screen to snap to full screen, or to the left/right to snap to half the screen. There is no big arrow or bright call to action that shows the user how to do it. There is a slight hint when you bring the mouse to the edge, but it's subtle. Most people are shocked when I show it to them. Yet, this is one of my favorite features of Win7 and they love it too.

    Windows 8 is very motion/gesture based. Buttons are less dominant, instead movements replace them. Initially these gestures are hard to discover, but once you do it, they make a lot of sense and are actually fun to use. They feel "natural."
    Thanked by:
    rdubmu 
    rdubmu likes this.
  14. _Emi_'s Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by gilezzz View Post
    _Emi_, please don't take it as a rant against Windows 8. I understand you love Windows 8 and that's great. I don't hate it, really. This OS doesn't "feel" right to me, so I took some time to think about how it could be improved. All personal opinions, and I am happy to hear yours.

    Now, I definitely hope that I am the only one having these feelings about Windows 8 and that I am terribly wrong.



    Again: voicing one's opinions is called "customer feedback". I mean in no way to diminish Microsoft people, and I know it is easy to type in a forum. I hope they read forums, too. I wrote my post in what I hope is a clear and organized reasoning. But sure I cannot decide anything. Let's call it food for thought, shall we?

    (and thanks again for helping me with the "compatibility view settings" menu on IE 11)
    I honestly didn't get your comment as a complain against Win8, but my reply was more to show you some people wont have the same view as you. that's why I didn't agree with you in simplicity but I would rather call it "familiarity" why? because you got used to taskbar, desktop, and a small app launcher called start menu. and even though you can make a fullscreen start screen, works just like start menu, still you don't feel it right.
    while to me, when i first tried Windows 8 worked differently but I gave it a try and I liked, I felt like it was... hmm it was like desktop was more fun, and then I found there were better ways to access some options, like couple weeks ago I wanted to uninstall and app in Win7, and it was like... not nice to see myself going once again to click on start button, control panel and the find programs and features. where in win8 all I could do was right click in bottom left corner and easily I could access there.

    I also wanted to show you how for a mouse person like me (I even use mouse when I design in 3dsmax or lightwave, I kinda find using shortcuts with 2 keys win+something or ctrl+something boring to use) and to me win8 feels really better for a mouse user, and I find it better than using touch, yeah touch feels nice and its the new cool thing, but mouse is faster.
    I usually complained in Win7 when I was looking for a program I didn't remember in old start menu, and I was concentrated trying to find it and puff! I missclicked and I had to start over. sometimes I raged about it, because after clicking "all programs", everything was a mess. that's why Windows 8 start screen feels better to me, and then it makes it faster to me as a mouse user.

    I still understand your problems why you still don't feel its the right OS. and that's why I gave you a lot of ways how I would avoid your problems, especially with 8.1.
    like not using win8 apps, because you can always find desktop apps that are more complete or well are the same apps but with the option to be windowed (like metrotwit).
    Only because you are using win8, it doesn't mean you have to use win8 apps. and you say "windowed" but if they are windowed, you would have to use charm bar for settings and printing and stuff. and by your comment I see you don't like using them. especially if you can get similar alternatives or better apps in desktop side.

    also using only desktop apps, that means you will not have to deal with appswitcher, so you can deactivate it (I don't even use it, I usually close apps, which in 8.1 they are tombstoning so they aren't closed but not in appswitcher either), also you won't have to use charmbars, and you would only use them for customizing start screen for example (not needed but if you want). and then you can deactivate top right corner, since it would be hard to hit bottom right one accidentally.

    you can always use the start screen as a desktop app launcher. that means, in 8.1 you can go directly to all apps, and launch everything from there easily.
    and then you uninstall every win8 app, so you wont open a pdf for example and then find yourself in a fullscreen app. you download a 3rd party desktop pdf reader and automatically its associated to pdf, without doing the "open with".

    so your a lot of swiping, and fullscreen apps, and charmbars can be avoided easily. you understand my "if I were you"s?

    The only thing I really disagree with you at all, its calling Win8 UI "tablet UI" and that's the reason you should have an option to turn stuff off. yeah Win8 is touch optimized, bigger buttons and icons, and fullscreen etc etc. but it also works really good for (again) a mouse user like me, who doesn't even use much alt+tab! but only because it has some new elements it doesn't make it exactly tablet UI or not desktop optimized. I get you don't get used to somethings, but that's why said a lot of things to avoid them. obviously I would be biased to think positively but I don't see how you cant avoid some stuff you don't get used about win8.

    oh and maybe I was a little harsh about it. about "customer feedback". but my point (to explain better) was that you like some people, make suggestions. and some can be good. but the truth is some suggestions wont be in Microsoft future vision, and some are there in MS plans papers, but some can take years to be coded and be available to users.Its not like Microsoft people will use windows 8 and never suggest an improvement.
    so only because you cant see the future Microsoft wants, it doesn't mean they aren't seeing the same as you. but of course when a software has millions of millions of lines of code, its not easy task to improve everything at once.
    and well, they had to build their vision somewhere (8.0) which wasn't perfect at all, but after that now they can start improving it (like win 8.1), and make it better and better.

    But in the end, we are all humans. just like you like chocolate, I don't. (well I guess you do like most people haha :P) and that means Microsoft has to take risks, and some customers wont accept them, if you cant get used to Windows 8, make windows 8 useful to you, even if you have to use 3rd party apps for that!
    I know not everyone will be happy with Microsoft vision (just like I know there are some people in other sites who see "Microsoft" and they hate it automatically, and call Windows 8 UI hostile and Win8 fail even if it is selling good and try to find any excuse to troll in every win8 thread) BUT we are different, we can like and dislike opposite things, so I understand some users wont get used easily to Windows 8 and the changes it is happening. but you cant look at it and just don't try to adapt it for you.
    for example I HATE with passion windows 7 search and now Windows 8.1 search. and what do I do? I don't have to use it so I ignore it and move on, if you close your mind to the negative things of windows 8, and don't find solutions... well you can always stay (sadly) in Win7 camp, or go to another OS.
    This life is not so bad to waste it thinking so much about technology anyway, you just use whatever that make you happy, even if its win3.1 (which I loved using some months ago in a virtual machine).
    BUT... BUT Like I explained in all my million words huge posts, you can always avoid a lot of win8 elements you don't like (well in my eyes you can) but of course if you still don't want it... well what can I say? there is always your familiar win7 UI or find an another alternative for you. or get a 3rd party app and pretend you aren't in win8.
    again, Microsoft is having a new vision, and it wont be perfect for some people right now. but im sure it will be better in next years (since they are updating Windows faster). its not like you have to rush to like it (like you see I do). maybe you will take some years, or maybe you will never like it and move to other OS. I will not know. but (again) in my eyes, I don't see how you cant avoid some stuff you dont feel right about win8.

    But maybe Im just blind and that's it :).
  15. gilezzz's Avatar
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       #15  
    _Emi_, you are a fabulous writer! And very passionate. I like that.
    It's almost impossible to discuss your points one by one, they would shut up this thread for... flood of words!
    Rest assured that I like Windows and just want to see it get better.

    To close the argument, a final thought: Microsoft is a company, and a company objective is to be profitable. To be profitable they have to sell their product. To the customers. As many as possible. I'm just trying to help out actually :)
    Ciao!
  16. Tom Snyder's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by gilezzz View Post
    _Emi_, you are a fabulous writer! And very passionate. I like that.
    It's almost impossible to discuss your points one by one, they would shut up this thread for... flood of words!
    Rest assured that I like Windows and just want to see it get better.

    To close the argument, a final thought: Microsoft is a company, and a company objective is to be profitable. To be profitable they have to sell their product. To the customers. As many as possible. I'm just trying to help out actually :)
    Ciao
    !
    One thing for sure, they are going to be losing the market share of business users until they come up with a productive interface, W 8 is nice for tablets, someone just wanting to view photos, watch videos, play games, surf the internet, get on social media. The business world wants more than that, Microsoft is falling behind in the sales now because of their hard head, I got a new laptop with W8, right out of the box I installed Classic Shell so I could use it for something beside the above mentioned things. And for a tablet OS I prefer Android over Windows anytime.
  17. Guzzler3's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by gilezzz View Post
    I fully respect your point, but I do technical training and have been using Windows 8 for many months now. Windows 8 is less intuitive because it has 2 distinct interfaces (desktop and metro) which are totally different and still are together in one OS. This is not something we can go around, and it is an issue that has to be fixed. I am not saying that metro is bad. I actually like it. I am saying that having the two things together is not how an OS should work. Furthermore, this OS makes no effort to customize its interface to the device you are using. And this is a problem on traditional desktop and laptop PCs.
    Then you're teaching it wrong. In 5-10 minutes I can get a person trained and up to speed on W8 from W7. Each time I do it, they always say 'Oh... I get it now. Wow, this is pretty cool! Let me try."
    Guz

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