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  1. ohgood's Avatar
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    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by conanheath View Post
    If it was up left to people like you we would be typing this in dos and a mouse would be a furry rodent. You're an engineer right? You probably sit in front of a desktop all day. Its a mobile computing world. Touch interface is the next step. You spend all day in cad. Guess what, you make up maybe 3% of market. MS doesn't care about what you want. MS wants to appeal to the other 97%. And making Windows more touch friendly and user friendly is how they will do that. You don't have to like it, but sooner or later you will have to use it. Or, don't complain when you are "retired" by some collage kid who will do it faster because they aren't afraid of progress.
    MS appealed to 97% of the market with kin, then wp7, then 7.5, now wp8/w8... its path of 'mobile os on everything' is not selling.

    Now, they are appealing to 3% of the market give or take , that bought wp7 and liked it. The sales are flat.

    It is definitely time for a reboot, reassessment of decisions, concessions, and windows 9 if they expect to sell _any_ devices in 2014. 2013 is already dead for them.
    awwwww how sweeeeeet. thanks !
  2. jimski's Avatar
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    #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by conanheath View Post
    If it was up left to people like you we would be typing this in dos and a mouse would be a furry rodent. You're an engineer right? You probably sit in front of a desktop all day. Its a mobile computing world. Touch interface is the next step. You spend all day in cad. Guess what, you make up maybe 3% of market. MS doesn't care about what you want. MS wants to appeal to the other 97%. And making Windows more touch friendly and user friendly is how they will do that. You don't have to like it, but sooner or later you will have to use it. Or, don't complain when you are "retired" by some collage kid who will do it faster because they aren't afraid of progress.
    +1
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  3. #103  
    Windows 8 is great. It is faster, very easy to use and when people work with it on a touch machine they love it. PC without touch is passť... Obsolete. If people want a PC it is great, if they want junk let them buy iOS or Chromejunk.
    *** Forza Windows Phone 8 ***
    Many answers here in my battery tips & tricks post: http://forums.wpcentral.com/htc-8x/2...ps-htc-8x.html
    Please help me with my WP8 Sync App idea called "WP8 ClonePhone": http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-...lonephone.html
  4. conanheath's Avatar
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    #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
    MS appealed to 97% of the market with kin, then wp7, then 7.5, now wp8/w8... its path of 'mobile os on everything' is not selling.

    Now, they are appealing to 3% of the market give or take , that bought wp7 and liked it. The sales are flat.

    It is definitely time for a reboot, reassessment of decisions, concessions, and windows 9 if they expect to sell _any_ devices in 2014. 2013 is already dead for them.
    Sales are flat? Did you see earnings report? Granted Wp8 wasn't even on radar but MS just righted their ship with Win 8, RT and WP8. I have completely upgraded to the 8 experience and I can tell you there are issues, but the experience is well beyond what we have had to this point. MS is integrating every system they have to one setup. My RT looks just like my Win8. 920 has same apps and options as RT and W8, almost. Xbox is in there. MS got it right, it is just going to take some time for everybody else to realize it. And they have a few bugs to work out.
  5. martinmc78's Avatar
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    #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by conanheath View Post
    If it was up left to people like you we would be typing this in dos and a mouse would be a furry rodent. You're an engineer right? You probably sit in front of a desktop all day. Its a mobile computing world. Touch interface is the next step. You spend all day in cad. Guess what, you make up maybe 3% of market. MS doesn't care about what you want. MS wants to appeal to the other 97%. And making Windows more touch friendly and user friendly is how they will do that. You don't have to like it, but sooner or later you will have to use it. Or, don't complain when you are "retired" by some collage kid who will do it faster because they aren't afraid of progress.
    Hey I spend all day in cad and revit and studio max. Autodesk havent optimised any of their software for windows 8 yet. Its not down to MS. Until the new versions come out later this year us engineers are unfortunately stuck using windows 7 and thats if Autodesk decide to make everything windows 8 friendly at all this year.

    Personally cant wait for the upgrade. Love windows 8. All us engineers arent the same.

    Embrace the change my friends... Embrace it!!
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  6. jabtano's Avatar
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    #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Carroll View Post
    OK try to use win8 *without metro* without a 3rd party app or some funky registry edits. O wait, you can't. *That* sir, is the fuss. And of course you like it, you're a windows phone user.
    Yes I am a Windows Phone user. Now with that said My home computers are running better and faster. My work Computers are running better and faster, Not only that our integration between our mobile devices and the Win8 machines at work is much better. and for the record yes everyone in my company carries a L 810 for work use, rather funny though, of the 12 L810's that had been issued 9 of the people who received one ended up buying WP8 devices for there personal or other family members. The bottom line for me is the amount of work that we can done and the time it saves in man hours. On this upgrade we will be intergrading tablets in shipping and receiving..say what you will because you do not like change but Win8 runs very well in the small business world in fact it does much better than we thought it would.
  7. ohgood's Avatar
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    #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by conanheath View Post
    Sales are flat? Did you see earnings report? Granted Wp8 wasn't even on radar but MS just righted their ship with Win 8, RT and WP8. I have completely upgraded to the 8 experience and I can tell you there are issues, but the experience is well beyond what we have had to this point. MS is integrating every system they have to one setup. My RT looks just like my Win8. 920 has same apps and options as RT and W8, almost. Xbox is in there. MS got it right, it is just going to take some time for everybody else to realize it. And they have a few bugs to work out.
    "We got the bugs out!" Doesn't sound like the best sales pitch.

    I don't recall RT making any records in sales. W8 is fun for watching peoples confusion for a few minutes, but even that is tiresome after a while.

    The best thing microsoft could do, right now, is ditch metro (or whatever they approve of calling it this week) and have windows 9 ready (I mean finished!) for black friday, 2013.

    RIM will eat their mobile lunch. Watch n see.
    awwwww how sweeeeeet. thanks !
  8. gsquared's Avatar
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    #108  
    Havent you armchair CEO's beat this one into the ground enough?
    Support your third-party developers. There just about all we have...
    Nataku4ca and wharfratg like this.
  9. Rick Carroll's Avatar
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    #109  
    Conanheath: Incorrect.. I migrated everything to Win7 at home and work after a few hours of playing with it. I am all for good, solid, progress. You Sir, are 2% of the marketplace with your Windows phone. *You* are the market Windows 8 appeals to. The rest of us could give 2 sh!ts about Win 8 and only use the new UI begrudgingly. And for all of you whose computer is magically working "faster" now you have windows 8, I maintain that it's only because you didn't configure/maintain your win7 properly from the beginning. I have never experienced a slowdown. Also I am not a "Build stuff" engineer. I am a Desktop Engineer. My job is to customize the desktop experience for my user base at work. I create some hard disk images and bootable media, and make sure all the required apps will function toegther. I have worked in MacOS, every version of Windows since 3.0, and Linux. So when I say Win8 is **** on a stick, I mean it. But ****, some people liked Vista. These people were insane, and the minority, but they did exist.

    And funny you acknowledge the fact the W8 sales are miniscule. Point. Set. Match.
    Last edited by Rick Carroll; 01-28-2013 at 09:06 AM.
  10. Coreldan's Avatar
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    #110  
    I too see a few problems, some of which are already mentioned:

    1) XP was out longer, thus upgrade was expected
    2) Vista made no radical changes, except being much worse in performance but what would your average customer know about that
    3) Win 7 being, as said, only out for 3 years and being rock solid. This means that the average joes who bought new OEM PCs with Win 7 are still running theirs fine. In a few years they probably start to be in a condition where many upgrade.
    4) Win 8 marketing might scare off people with its difference. My sister was shopping for a new laptop and said she wants one with Win 7 cos Win 8 was so different. She genuinely thought Win 8 has no desktop mode cos they only show the new start menu in ads etc. I realize why they want to market that, but generally speaking there is SO much misconceptions about the OS in the average userbase, such as Minecraft not being playable on Win8 cos Notch didnt approve the game to be put into the app store.. (I was told this by a friend)

    In the end it doesnt matter. In 2-3 years of time, most people will have to buy a new PC and they will not have the default option to use Win 7 anymore.

    I personally wouldnt go back to Win 7 anymore. I find myself cursing when I have to use one, cos Win 8 is just so much handier with the mousegestures, even without touch. Naturally with touch it's even better.
  11. Rick Carroll's Avatar
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    #111  
    gsquared: you have this backwards

    Where the people go the app developers will follow.
    Developers do not code for Windows because it's popular. It's popular because the code base is easy to develop for, and therefore because of the wide range of applications available, it is used. People continue to use Windows in general, not because the OS itself is so superior, but because of what you can do/add to it. If all the gaming companies said "F-it: we're only coding for Linux from now on," all the hardcore gamers that buy all of those expensive a$$ games would switch instantly, or would at least dual boot. But they don't because Windows does have an extremely large user base, and because Microsoft has made making the games there *easy already.*
  12. fatclue_98's Avatar
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    #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Carroll View Post
    OK, I realize this is a Windows Phone board, But I really don't understand MSFT. They took a FAILED phone platform (Metro) and decided to make it full screen on their desktop OS. I hate Metro. It is ugly. I also don't want my PC to act like a #$%^ing smartphone. This board generally reflects the views of the 2% market share of Windows Phone (which was much better in WM6.1 when it had a START BUTTON) users that actually enjoy the clunky, ugly, messed up UI. I like the hierarchical start button. It is organized and makes sense from a deployment standpoint. (BTW, the user base at my work would quit if we forced them to Win8... half of them can't even work XP.)




    Furthermore: WTF is up with everything trying to get hooked into your social media? WHY would I want facebook integrated into my desktop? I though the point of metro when WP7 was released was that you didn't want to be staring at your phone all the time (because it's ugly and sucks). integrating it into my desktop doesn't even make me want to look at FB more, it just pisses me off with annoying notifications. ( I feel the same way about the FB app on my android phone)

    Lastly, I shouldn't need a 3rd party app to "fix" what should be default in the first place. Metro should be an option, not forced down my throat at boot time. And Win7 users could have the same boot times if they took a few days and learned how to properly configure their OS.

    For the record I am a desktop engineer, and did testing on Windows 8 at work. I reimaged to win7 after a couple hours of playing with the abject failure that is Win8. Flame this post if you want, I probably won't reply.
    Rick, you should be happy if your force quit. At least the dumb half that can't even get XP right. BTW, I do agree with most of your rant, I think MS should have made W8 in two flavors (touch and non-touch) as they did with Windows Mobile (Standard & Professional).
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Carroll View Post
    gsquared: you have this backwards

    Developers do not code for Windows because it's popular. It's popular because the code base is easy to develop for.*
    Actually, no, you are the one that has got it backwards. Professional developers code for the largest user base. They need to earn money. If what you said were true all devs would be scrambling to make apps for WP8.

    Only hobbyist devs are free to give ease of development higher priority.
  14. gsquared's Avatar
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    #114  
    Ahh, give Rick a little lee-way. He is an aspiring board troll. Give him some time and he will be able to sharpen his skills a bit. Right now he is making a classic rookie move of telling everyone how wrong they are about anything he doesn't agree with.
    Support your third-party developers. There just about all we have...
  15. fatclue_98's Avatar
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    #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsquared View Post
    Ahh, give Rick a little lee-way. He is an aspiring board troll. Give him some time and he will be able to sharpen his skills a bit. Right now he is making a classic rookie move of telling everyone how wrong they are about anything he doesn't agree with.
    Give the guy a break. Wouldn't you have your jocks/panties in a bunch if half your subordinates were idiots?
  16. #116  
    Anybody who says w8 isn't worth upgrading because XP,vista, 7 is perfectly capable are idiots. That same thinking can be applied towards anything in tech. 2005 cell phones are still capable, iPhone 3gs is still capable, Droid incredible (original) is still capable. Routers, other desktops, etc. So why should anyone upgrade to anything?


    The problem is simple, ppl are stuck in Googles and Apples asses.

    Also ppl forget EVERY OS out there besides windows is some form of Linux. Seems like developers, etc. are really pushing for all tech Linux.

    There's no one in there complete mind can say Apple or Google alternatives, namely hardware are better than Microsofts.

    Apple has many devices that all do the same thing, and none benefits more than the other.

    In apples world I need an iPhone, air, MacBook to complete my life. Google doesn't have an ecosystem yet out of phones and tablets. Microsoft introduced an OS and a hybrid form factor that can be easier on your pockets.

    All you need is a WP and a surface pro and can get both for about 1500. apple iPhone 600/ MacBook 1600+/ iPad 500= 2700 bucks. Only idiots spend more than they have or should.

    Googles so called eco only have there phones and tablets, but where is everything else. I won't even get into a chromebook. Even for 250-300 I can still buy a 4 year old window 7 laptop that will run marathons around anything Google has.
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  17. ohgood's Avatar
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    #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by Microsoftjunkie View Post
    Anybody who says w8 isn't worth upgrading because XP,vista, 7 is perfectly capable are idiots. That same thinking can be applied towards anything in tech. 2005 cell phones are still capable, iPhone 3gs is still capable, Droid incredible (original) is still capable. Routers, other desktops, etc. So why should anyone upgrade to anything?


    The problem is simple, ppl are stuck in Googles and Apples asses.

    Also ppl forget EVERY OS out there besides windows is some form of Linux. Seems like developers, etc. are really pushing for all tech Linux.

    There's no one in there complete mind can say Apple or Google alternatives, namely hardware are better than Microsofts.

    Apple has many devices that all do the same thing, and none benefits more than the other.

    In apples world I need an iPhone, air, MacBook to complete my life. Google doesn't have an ecosystem yet out of phones and tablets. Microsoft introduced an OS and a hybrid form factor that can be easier on your pockets.

    All you need is a WP and a surface pro and can get both for about 1500. apple iPhone 600/ MacBook 1600+/ iPad 500= 2700 bucks. Only idiots spend more than they have or should.

    Googles so called eco only have there phones and tablets, but where is everything else. I won't even get into a chromebook. Even for 250-300 I can still buy a 4 year old window 7 laptop that will run marathons around anything Google has.
    I think you've just called everyone, everywhere, that is happy with their computer an ***** for one or more reasons. I hope there aren't any chairs nearby.
    awwwww how sweeeeeet. thanks !
  18. Nataku4ca's Avatar
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    #118  
    hm, the postings from these last two days are becoming incredibly hostile and unnecessary... btw i do have a hard time believing someone to be a desktop engineer when they admitted themselves to have only used the platform for a few hours, it clearly means that they didn't really bother trying to understand the concept first, pretty sure there are a lot of IT guys on this board (myself included) that has a different opinion, having an opinion is one thing (which is fine) but pointing fingers and calling everyone else some sort of name one way or the other is the last thing that should be lugged around on this forum

    "OK try to use win8 *without metro* without a 3rd party app or some funky registry edits. O wait, you can't. *That* sir, is the fuss. And of course you like it, you're a windows phone user."
    ^
    that statement i seriously have issues with... i've been using Win8 on my desktop computer and it's worked exactly the same on the desktop as Win7, not sure why you need any edit unless you want an ancient start menu

    (the only thing that I feel should be changed is to have two small buttons on the start screen for shutdown and all programs instead of putting one in the charms bar and the other hiding in the right click menu, that's a small tweak that would make the experience much easier)
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
    I think you've just called everyone, everywhere, that is happy with their computer an ***** for one or more reasons. I hope there aren't any chairs nearby.
    Why should there be. Am i waiting on a slew of comments from ppl that disliked what I said?

    Using the word ***** may have been extreme but its closer to the truth than anything. The only thing anyone can say is that Apple/Google has apps. Nothing else they provide are better than Microsfts alternatives. I gave everyone a try and they failed with me. I don't need an iPad when I have an air. Or iPod when I have an iPhone. And even less sense to buy a new iPod when I can buy a 4 or 4s that does the same but brings cellular with it. Apples hardware are just rehashes. Nobody can deny that.

    Google hardware is just terrible. It took them how long not to correct the stuttering issue? Jelly bean ring a bell? It still lags out of control on my N7 & G Nexus.

    My intention is not to offend anyone, but the truth is the truth.

    My old Hp dv6-6b21he is better than most alternatives. Even more so loaded with w8. My hp puts my sister 2012 MacBook to shame in speed and applications.

    I guess everyone wants to be a conformist.
  20. #120  
    Look. Windows 8 is like classic small block v/s Dohc AMG M156 V8. The newer build has a lot going for it. Why should anyone avoid W8? It is stable, fast like **** and superb on touch devices. It is a two in one, classic and touch OS.
    *** Forza Windows Phone 8 ***
    Many answers here in my battery tips & tricks post: http://forums.wpcentral.com/htc-8x/2...ps-htc-8x.html
    Please help me with my WP8 Sync App idea called "WP8 ClonePhone": http://forums.wpcentral.com/windows-...lonephone.html
  21. fatclue_98's Avatar
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    #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolknight1968 View Post
    Look. Windows 8 is like classic small block v/s Dohc AMG M156 V8. The newer build has a lot going for it. Why should anyone avoid W8? It is stable, fast like **** and superb on touch devices. It is a two in one, classic and touch OS.
    Yeah, but that small block V-8 is stout and built to withstand much higher stresses than any Coke-can Twin-Cam being built today. There's a lot of us old timers that believe in durability and robustness over ketchy features. The performance gains of W8 over W7 are imperceptible to the human eye as to justify the time and resources spent upgrading. There is no stopwatch to measure benchmark units, only digital tools that spew out numbers that are quite meaningless. I'll take your automotive reference one step further to illustrate my point. If you have two top-fuels duking it out for a final and you're standing at the start line, can you honestly tell who got to the end of the 1320 first? No. You need to wait for the lights and the times.
  22. CHIP72's Avatar
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    #122  
    Rick Carroll - what specific issues do you have with Windows 8, either in desktop mode or Metro/tile mode?

    Two quick things I'll mention:

    1) The Charms bar (the bar that appears on the screen when you place the cursor in the upper-right corner or when you swipe in from the right bezel on a touchscreen device, essentially is the new Start button. (You can access the Charms bar in either Metro/tile mode or desktop mode.) Perceiving the Charms bar in this manner IMO helps considerably.

    2) What I like to call the "just type" feature in Metro/tile mode is similar to but considerably more powerful than the Search box (located directly above the Start button when you click on it) in Windows 7. To access, just click anywhere on the Metro mode screen that isn't in a tile and start typing what you are looking for. Search results will show up on the right grouped by class and include not only applications, settings, and files but also the Windows Store and selected applications installed on your computer (i.e. you can search within the application via the "just type" functionality without entering the application first). Incidentally, you can also access the same search functionality via the Search option in the Charms bar.


    Other notable devices:
    Windows laptops: Asus VivoBook X202E (Windows 8), HP Pavilion g4-1215dx (Windows 7)
    Chromebooks: Samsung Chromebook XE303
    Laura Knotek likes this.
  23. conanheath's Avatar
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    #123  
    I think a few people need to get "Win8 for Dummies" and I don't mean that to be derogatory in any way. I picked it up after I got my RT back at launch. With the major change I thought it would be a good idea to know what I was getting before I got full W8 laptop. There were a lot of changes and some are not exactly "figure it out as you go" or intuitive, at first. But, once you figure out the changes, you see why MS changed things up a bit. You see how much more powerful searches and the charms bar really can be. Also how much faster interface can be. Also, it is a touch interface even though you can use a mouse. Don't let anyone fool you. They are pulling the carpet out from under power users a little. But, average Joe is the market and touch is the future. I have found absolutely no problems with desktop mode once I read up on new search features. Everything I had before is there except a start button. Everything can still be pinned to task bar or shortcut to desktop as well as pinned to Metro. I'm not a big "Dummies" fan, but it was the best investment I've made recently. If you haven't read up on W8 you don't know half of what it can do or the ease at which it can do it.
    Nataku4ca likes this.
  24. ohgood's Avatar
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    #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by conanheath View Post
    I think a few people need to get "Win8 for Dummies" and I don't mean that to be derogatory in any way. I picked it up after I got my RT back at launch. With the major change I thought it would be a good idea to know what I was getting before I got full W8 laptop. There were a lot of changes and some are not exactly "figure it out as you go" or intuitive, at first. But, once you figure out the changes, you see why MS changed things up a bit. You see how much more powerful searches and the charms bar really can be. Also how much faster interface can be. Also, it is a touch interface even though you can use a mouse. Don't let anyone fool you. They are pulling the carpet out from under power users a little. But, average Joe is the market and touch is the future. I have found absolutely no problems with desktop mode once I read up on new search features. Everything I had before is there except a start button. Everything can still be pinned to task bar or shortcut to desktop as well as pinned to Metro. I'm not a big "Dummies" fan, but it was the best investment I've made recently. If you haven't read up on W8 you don't know half of what it can do or the ease at which it can do it.
    Find control panel. Intuitive?
    awwwww how sweeeeeet. thanks !
  25. martinmc78's Avatar
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    #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
    Find control panel. Intuitive?
    Click anywhere without a tile and type control panel - even better just start typing what you want from the control panel and cut out another step. Works for everything else also works for control panel. Is that not intuitive?
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