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  1. Simon Tupper's Avatar
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       #1  
    I've seen tons of analysts saying that Apple should buy Nokia. We all know that Microsoft needs Nokia at the moment, but if they wait too long they might have a bad surprise... Apple is not in a difficult situation and they could without a doubt buy Nokia tomorrow and it would not affect the companies profits that much; on the other hand, Microsoft is in a not so good position.

    Nokia is not so healthy in fact, some analyst are predicting that the company will crash badly before the end of 2013.

    what is your thoughts on that, will we see devices from Nokia in 2014?
  2. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #2  
    I doubt the EU and US authorities would permit such a transaction, as it would result in a monopoly position in total handset sales for the buyer.

    Nokia needs to stop dawdling and get its devices out on every carrier to every person who wants one. No more excuses, no more exclusives, no more delays. Ship and sell asap through everyone, to everyone. That is the only way to keep up with Apple and Samsung.
  3. DeWize1's Avatar
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    #3  
    Microsoft would never let someone like Apple buy out Nokia, let alone the legal constraints involved.

    Look at it this way: Back when ATT was planning on buying out T-Mobile, the deal was nearly finalized, and the US department of Justice shut it down, and T-Mobile made a huge settlement off the deal. If, and that's IF Apple even wanted to buy Nokia, it would probably be shut down in the same way, and Nokia too would gain a huge settlement.

    On top of this, in the current deal with Nokia and Microsoft, as long as these WP8 devices catch and the blood between them remains pure, Nokia cannot go under, because Microsoft will simply continue to infuse money into their budget.
  4. Simon Tupper's Avatar
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       #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    I doubt the EU and US authorities would permit such a transaction, as it would result in a monopoly position in total handset sales for the buyer.

    Nokia needs to stop dawdling and get its devices out on every carrier to every person who wants one. No more excuses, no more exclusives, no more delays. Ship and sell asap through everyone, to everyone. That is the only way to keep up with Apple and Samsung.
    The problem is that Nokia presented its phones too early... they have to wait for Microsoft to present WP8 and Microsoft is not "punctual"... They could release the 920 with WP7.5, but it would not be smart...
  5. DeWize1's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Tupper View Post
    The problem is that Nokia presented its phones too early... they have to wait for Microsoft to present WP8 and Microsoft is not "punctual"... They could release the 920 with WP7.5, but it would not be smart...
    They announced their phones only a week or two before HTC, It wasn't that they did it too early, it's that Microsoft pushed them to build the hype before they themsleves were even finished with WP8.
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Tupper View Post
    Apple is not in a difficult situation and they could without a doubt buy Nokia tomorrow and it would not affect the companies profits that much; on the other hand, Microsoft is in a not so good position.

    Nokia is not so healthy in fact, some analyst are predicting that the company will crash badly before the end of 2013.
    Source?
    theefman likes this.
  7. Simon Tupper's Avatar
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       #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by DeWize1 View Post
    They announced their phones only a week or two before HTC, It wasn't that they did it too early, it's that Microsoft pushed them to build the hype before they themsleves were even finished with WP8.
    If Microsoft said the truth when they said that WP8 was on the work before WP7's release... how can they be that short in time? This company look unorganized compared to Apple's strict and precise way of doing things.

    If Microsoft fails to impress, then Nokia wont survive...
    Last edited by Simon Tupper; 10-10-2012 at 10:16 AM.
  8. Simon Tupper's Avatar
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       #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by rockstarzzz View Post
    Source?
    I've read several articles last night I'm only summarizing a few things I read, but feel free to do some researches and give your opinion.
  9. VagrantWade's Avatar
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    #9  
    Yea...if they won't allow AT&T to buy T-Mobile, do you think a European trade commission would let Apple buy Nokia? No chance. I'd say Microsoft have an infinitely better chance due to them not currently being in the phone making market.
  10. Reflexx's Avatar
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    Finland doesn't want anyone to buy Nokia. Nokia gets a decent amount of money from Finland.

    Also, Nokia is quite stable monetarily. They have a good chunk of operating cash. They're going through a major transition in not just their smartphone division, but in the focus of the whole company. They decided to write off losses immediately when they close down a division, instead of splitting those losses out over the long term.

    That makes their losses look really bad for now. But it keeps those losses from affecting future numbers.

    Nokia's stock price is low, and that's where all the ideas of their demise come from. But it's not reality.
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  11. Simon Tupper's Avatar
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       #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Winning Guy View Post
    Finland doesn't want anyone to buy Nokia. Nokia gets a decent amount of money from Finland.

    Also, Nokia is quite stable monetarily. They have a good chunk of operating cash. They're going through a major transition in not just their smartphone division, but in the focus of the whole company. They decided to write off losses immediately when they close down a division, instead of splitting those losses out over the long term.

    That makes their losses look really bad for now. But it keeps those losses from affecting future numbers.

    Nokia's stock price is low, and that's where all the ideas of their demise come from. But it's not reality.
    These are the steps that a company go through when they are soon to close their doors... and the low stock price is just another sign that the company is dying... I know it could get better with WP8, but at the moment it's not looking good...
  12. DeWize1's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Tupper View Post
    If Microsoft said the truth when they said that WP8 was on the work before WP7's release... how can they be that short in time? This company look unorganized compared to Apple's strict and precise way of doing things.

    If Microsoft fails to impress, then Nokia wont survive...
    If you made your own OS, and shipped it off to an OEM to make something to run it, and it failed miserably, wouldn't you be pressed for time to? There are a lot of constraints to multiple people putting together multiple things. Apple looks organized cuz they can do it all themselves, but Microsoft has a lot more to handle and are doing it very well. The fact that they RTMed after all the announcements was simply because they had finalized the software to hardware configurations. Nokia will be fine long term, of that i am sure.
  13. squire777's Avatar
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    #13  
    I really doubt Nokia will be bought out by anyone. Analysts can say what they want, but all they care about is share prices in the end. I think Nokia would probably go with Android if they really became desperate.
  14. theefman's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Tupper View Post
    These are the steps that a company go through when they are soon to close their doors... and the low stock price is just another sign that the company is dying... I know it could get better with WP8, but at the moment it's not looking good...
    Microsoft's stock price has stayed at the same level for years while apple's has flown into the stratoshpere. Is Microsoft dying as well?
  15. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #15  
    Looking at Nokia's financials, it would be one **** of a rough winter required to take them down that quickly. They'd have to see a complete halt in sales to burn through cash that quickly, and I doubt that will happen.
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  16. Simon Tupper's Avatar
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       #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by theefman View Post
    Microsoft's stock price has stayed at the same level for years while apple's has flown into the stratoshpere. Is Microsoft dying as well?
    You simply can't compare Microsoft and Nokia... Microsoft is not is a good position but its an healthy company; on the other hand, Nokia has to fire they employees to limit the damage...
  17. Rob41664's Avatar
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    #17  
    I like the idea I have seen a couple of places about MS merging Nokia and HTC and them becoming just another division.
  18. VagrantWade's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Tupper View Post
    You simply can't compare Microsoft and Nokia... Microsoft is not is a good position but its an healthy company; on the other hand, Nokia has to fire they employees to limit the damage...
    Microsoft isn't in a good financial position...based on what? They are like the third most profitable company in the country. If not second right now.
  19. theefman's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Tupper View Post
    You simply can't compare Microsoft and Nokia... Microsoft is not is a good position but its an healthy company; on the other hand, Nokia has to fire they employees to limit the damage...
    No doubt Nokia is financially not in the best shape, restructuring their business due to poor sales of Symbian phones for years leading to the error of the "burning platform" memo and moving exclusively to WP so their current stock price is to be expected. With billions in profits over the last few years what's Microsoft's excuse?
  20. Simon Tupper's Avatar
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       #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by vagrantwade View Post
    Microsoft isn't in a good financial position...based on what? They are like the third most profitable company in the country. If not second right now.
    Their position is not good because of the uncertainty around their new lines of products. People may not like w8, WP8, the Surface and what ever else they plan to sell... we all love WP and the Metro UI here, but we are not a majority outside of WPcentral...
  21. #21  
    Who would buy Nokia?

    The usual suspects would be Apple, MS, Google. Some venture capitalist to support Nokia for a while is possible. Perhaps Amazon will love to build their own phones/tablets and Nokia expertise can cut short development times and get them a trove of patents to boot. Not to mention the maps.

    A crazy one would be Nokia going bankrupt, broken up into tiny bits to sell like what Kodak's doing. That will be sad.
  22. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Tupper View Post
    These are the steps that a company go through when they are soon to close their doors... and the low stock price is just another sign that the company is dying... I know it could get better with WP8, but at the moment it's not looking good...
    The low stock price really doesn't mean much! The days when stock prices and financial reality had anything in common are long gone. I've developed automated trading software and I know how the game is played.

    Also, don't trust analysts... most "analysts" offering publicly available information over the internet are usually clueless. Many are even more biased towards one brand than we in the smartphone-enthusiast community are (particularly towards Apple, due to already being invested there). If they knew what they were talking about, they would be working for an investment bank instead of blogging on the internet.
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  23. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Heron_Kusanagi View Post
    Who would buy Nokia?
    If stock prices go below 1.80, hedge funds become very interested. That would be the worst possible scenario, as they would dismantle the company and sell the individual parts. Apple and Samsung have no chance of buying Nokia.

    Anyone else with enough money and interest is a potential buyer. I doubt Google would be interested. They bought Motorola mainly for the patents and Nokia has already entrusted their most important patents to 3rd parties.
  24. Aykazu's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Tupper View Post
    I've seen tons of analysts saying that Apple should buy Nokia. We all know that Microsoft needs Nokia at the moment, but if they wait too long they might have a bad surprise... Apple is not in a difficult situation and they could without a doubt buy Nokia tomorrow and it would not affect the companies profits that much; on the other hand, Microsoft is in a not so good position.

    Nokia is not so healthy in fact, some analyst are predicting that the company will crash badly before the end of 2013.

    what is your thoughts on that, will we see devices from Nokia in 2014?
    The problem with most of these "Analysts" is that they dont actually tell you the truth, they say Nokia made 1billion dollar losses in the last quarter when the reality was closer to 300million.

    Im pretty certain that Nokia will pull this through and they will be profitable again. Im certain because of the statics. NSN allready turned profitable and im certain that it will be more profitable in the future, that is due to the fact that 4G LTE network demand will increase and NSN is a big player in that apartment.

    The most profitable asset of Nokia has been its Feature Phone division and the sales have not slown down because of the huge succes of the Asha line, so its safe to assume that the profits are roughly the same as in Q2/12.

    Navteq is also proven to be profitable and it will bring the Windows 8 maps which means that it has a huge potential to grow its profits and margins, I think anyone interested in Nokias stock should keep their eyes open and look very closely about Navteq.

    The problem is the Smartphones, the Symbian sales will decline even further we know that, how much that we dont know yet, I have a feeling that 808 has actually done pretty well so we might actually get a nice surprise but we have to wait and see.
    The real trump is the Lumia sales, we know that Lumia sales hit the wall in the US, but in Europe statcounter data shows that the sales have not decreased that much. The other thing that pulls the curtain over the Lumia sale figures is that, the line was not fully released in Q2 so its very hard to analyse how many Lumias Nokia has sold in Q3. I put my estimate figures around 3,9-5 million units.

    However Nokia is one those stocks that has very high risk and that goes both ways, if Nokia turns profitable id say we will see 4 stock price in a flash (Thats around 96% rise) but then, risk allways work both sides and we could see it drop to the 1 category in a very short period of time if the Q3 is really bad.
  25. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #25  
    Nokia is losing money and has declining sales. Pretending there's no problem isn't wise. That said, they have a tremendous channel and strong engineering team. There's no reason they can't turn themselves around with the right products and channel strategy.

    Even if their success is inhibited by their bizarre exclusivity program, there are enough Nokia buyers in China and India alone to fuel a return to profitability, IMO.

    If I had to guess what the WP landscape looks like, it will be dominated by Nokia in Asia and Africa, with HTC owning the bulk of the market in North America and a highly competitive market in Europe.
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