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  • 1 Post By Wiccan Lagar
  1. Mr.Moonlight's Avatar
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    What launched with a bang seems to be just a whimper now.

    Remember when WP7 first launched, we had quite a few devices to choose from that covered a broad spectrum of specs and price points? HTC alone came along with the HD7 and Mozart (each in 8 and 16 GB flavors) as well as the Surround, Trophy and the 7Pro/Arrive. Something for everyone. Samsung offered the Omnia7 (8/16GB) and Focus, and LG launched with two nice phones, one with a keyboard. Dell offered a unique device with it's portrait slide-out and 32 GB of memory. There was something for nearly every taste and budget.

    Next product cycle...what do we have? HTC is currently only offering two new models, down from seven (if you count the memory configs as separate models). The Titan is really nice, but it's huge. The Radar looked interesting at first, but the 8 GB memory, sealed battery and 1 GHz clocking kind of turned me off to it.

    I was really hoping the HTC Ignite and HTC Prime would show up...the Ignite looked to be the successor to the Mozart and the Prime would have been a 2nd-Gen 7Pro/Arrive. I would have gone for the Prime, as I'm a bit partial to a physical keyboard. But the onscreen keyboard in WP7 is great and I get along fine with my Mozart. I hope these models show up at some point.

    The two new Samsung offerings are also a bit disappointing to me. The Omnia7 is built like a tank compared to the Focus S, and the Focus Flash isn't much of an improvement over the original Focus IMO (FFC notwithstanding).

    Nokia enters the scene with an upper-mid-range device in the Lumia 800 and a budget 710. But nothing that really sets them apart from the HTC or Samsung offerings (at least on the hardware side of things). Here's hoping that Nokia steps up and introduces more models than the two they've got in the race now. I've heard that LG may be bringing out two new models as well.

    All in all, the new wave of WP devices leaves a bit to be desired IMO. Aside from the Titan, there's really nothing equipped with all the whistles and bells...and even the Titan isn't being offered with 32 GB. Not that I'd need that much (16 is fine for me), but some folks really want a WP device with more memory.

    What do you all think? Will early 2012 bring us some more new phones?
  2. pikacz's Avatar
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    #2  
    i on the other hand am happy. i plan to stick to my mozart as long as the updates keep flowing. lack of dual-core high-end wp7 devices is good news to me, because i'm pretty sure that i will keep getting the updates and not be forced to buy a new phone (standard behaviour on android)
  3. cckgz4's Avatar
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    #3  
    They're not done, especially Nokia
    Nokia Lumia 1020 owner here...

  4. wolf1891's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by cckgz4 View Post
    They're not done, especially Nokia
    i sure hope not...
  5. Dark Mirage's Avatar
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    #5  
    Part of the problem is the OS and Microsoft's control over it. While we should all applaud Microsoft for providing a unified experience, part of the problem is that Microsoft has is keeping the experience from maturing fast enough.

    Apple and (higher end) Android devices have manged to stay relevant for so long because they are constantly upgrading the specifications and staying modern. Most people are willing to pay premium prices because the devices are just that... Premium. Their value is apparent. Microsoft, however is limiting manufacturers far too much. Not only are their phones expensive to make, but they're also a generation behind in terms of tech. Dual-core is a ways away for us, as well as any screen resolution update. By the time WP7 sees dual core phones, Android will have already flooded the market with them, and upgraded their premium sets to quad-core.

    Between outdated tech, expensive to manufacture sets, lack of apps, and a less than tepid adoption rate, you don't have to wonder why there are so few 2nd gen WP7 devices... You can see the answer on your own.

    Not trying to hate on the OS, as I love my Focus, but Microsoft's problems are readily apparent. It sounds like they want to fix these issues with their Apollo devices though, which is great. I just wish it would happen sooner... It's kind of lame to sit here waiting for these things to happen when other devices already have had them for what would be considered a good long time in the tech world. I'm pulling for MS though. With luck they'll have their act together by the end of 2012.
  6. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
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    #6  
    Just because they don't impress you doesn't mean it's disappointing. Nokia, Samsung, HTC have done a good job covering all bases. With Acer and other OEMS still going to chime in, I say the number of devices are just about right. More coming from Nokia soon. What else do you want. Please don't say the bull**** dual core/1 Gig or Ram line.
    Goodbye Dooley! You will NOT be missed!:@
    Bring back the WeeeeeBeeeeaaarrrr
  7. scottcraft's Avatar
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    #7  
    I don't think WP7 needs dual core nears as bad as android. Single core WP7 are as smooth and fast as most top android phones.

    Sent from my Windows 7 phone using Board Express
  8. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
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    #8  
    All reviews say the wp7 runs just as smooth or smoother than any android/iOs device. If you ask someone why they need dual cores, they'll just look at you with a blank face. Because they have no clue.

    Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express
    Goodbye Dooley! You will NOT be missed!:@
    Bring back the WeeeeeBeeeeaaarrrr
  9. Dark Mirage's Avatar
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    #9  
    Of course they don't. A vast majority of PC and phone users have no idea what magic is going on under the hood. It's no different from car owners. What people know doesn't matter. It's about providing services that would be greatly enhanced, or impossible to do, without better power. An iPhone 4s purchaser doesn't need to know why Siri works... They just need to be told that only an iPhone 4s can provide such an app, much like a car purchaser only needs to know a Mustang is faster than a Civic.

    And, really, that's MS's biggest problem right now. More so than even the old hardware... Like jaxstate said, the OS runs fantastically smooth. Unfortunately, there aren't enough apps to back that up. Smartphones aren't really worthwhile if you can't do much more than make a call and do a little web browsing. Any dumbphone can do the same at $35 a month.

    Lack of hardware choice, and lack of apps... The biggest hurdles a potential WP7 owner faces at the moment.
  10. webosisalive!'s Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1jaxstate1 View Post
    All reviews say the wp7 runs just as smooth or smoother than any android/iOs device. If you ask someone why they need dual cores, they'll just look at you with a blank face. Because they have no clue.

    Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express
    Quote Originally Posted by 1jaxstate1 View Post
    Just because they don't impress you doesn't mean it's disappointing. Nokia, Samsung, HTC have done a good job covering all bases. With Acer and other OEMS still going to chime in, I say the number of devices are just about right. More coming from Nokia soon. What else do you want. Please don't say the bull**** dual core/1 Gig or Ram line.
    i dont think windows phone at its current state needs it either, but i would feel more secure. with 1gb ram i would feel future proof for Apolo, the dual core i wouldnt really want to suck my battery but would really like 1GB ram
  11. Blacklac's Avatar
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    #11  
    Dual core... It shouldn't be so negative of a thought. If the OS can utilize the cores properly, isn't a dual core better for battery life? I mean, its not like WP is taxing. How much easier is it for a process to be managed over 2 cores than one? Maybe my thinking is off, but a dual core would just sip power running WP Mango. But yet, we could possibly see benefits in browser speed (while the browser is damn good, lets be honest, it is slightly behind in speed to competitors), games, Apps, etc. It probably wouldn't be "night and day" but I just dont see how it would be a negative. That said, I dont see dual core CPU's making a huge impact on WP until WP supports full on multitasking, and not its current "App switching". There you can fully utilize multiple cores. Is it necessary for Mango? Not at all. Would it be nice? Sure, to those who want it. Who would complain if HTC, Samsung and Nokia all offered 1 device each with a dual core CPU and 1GB RAM? If you dont want that, there are plenty single core options. However, it seems its too late for that with Apollo and Tango closing in.

    While having a unified platform has its benefits, it has downsides with that. Slower refresh cycles.
  12. Dark Mirage's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blacklac View Post
    Dual core... It shouldn't be so negative of a thought. If the OS can utilize the cores properly, isn't a dual core better for battery life? I mean, its not like WP is taxing. How much easier is it for a process to be managed over 2 cores than one? Maybe my thinking is off, but a dual core would just sip power running WP Mango. But yet, we could possibly see benefits in browser speed (while the browser is damn good, lets be honest, it is slightly behind in speed to competitors), games, Apps, etc. It probably wouldn't be "night and day" but I just dont see how it would be a negative. That said, I dont see dual core CPU's making a huge impact on WP until WP supports full on multitasking, and not its current "App switching". There you can fully utilize multiple cores. Is it necessary for Mango? Not at all. Would it be nice? Sure, to those who want it. Who would complain if HTC, Samsung and Nokia all offered 1 device each with a dual core CPU and 1GB RAM? If you dont want that, there are plenty single core options. However, it seems its too late for that with Apollo and Tango closing in.

    While having a unified platform has its benefits, it has downsides with that. Slower refresh cycles.
    Dual core phones don't have battery drain issues. They easily get a full days use. It's LTE phones that are battery sucks.
  13. Blacklac's Avatar
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    #13  
    Yeah, that was kind of my point. It sounded like some that posted prior thought dual cores were a negative on battery.

    I'm all for more cores. :)
  14. Wiccan Lagar's Avatar
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    #14  
    In theory, yes, dual core would most likely improve battery life. In essence, with one cycle, a dual processor would be able to process double the amount of info as a single processor would in one cycle. So that would mean less need to go to a power source to run that cycle.

    My opinion for success is this: the average consumer is not like you or I. They don't understand nor do they want to understand what a dual core processor, let a lone a quad or 30. The average person thinks: more is merrier.

    Example: cameras are often marketed as being great because they have MORE Megapixels when in reality, the MPs have nothing to do with picture quality. People just see bigger numbers and think it's better. People tend to think that if something costs more it's better. While that may be true for most cases it's not true for all. So this leads me to my point.

    More is better. People want to know how they can get more out of their phone whether they need it or not. Give them more screen, more MPs, more choices, more apps, more colors, more storage sizes give them every damn thing they ever wished for. Why? Because in the end...it's the uneducated that reallllly keep the world spinning.

    Heck...if everyone know how to fix computers I would e out of a job.
    In the Vortex...
    threed61 likes this.
  15. Umm Yeah's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Steveg View Post
    In theory, yes, dual core would most likely improve battery life. In essence, with one cycle, a dual processor would be able to process double the amount of info as a single processor would in one cycle. So that would mean less need to go to a power source to run that cycle.



    My opinion for success is this: the average consumer is not like you or I. They don't understand nor do they want to understand what a dual core processor, let a lone a quad or 30. The average person thinks: more is merrier.



    Example: cameras are often marketed as being great because they have MORE Megapixels when in reality, the MPs have nothing to do with picture quality. People just see bigger numbers and think it's better. People tend to think that if something costs more it's better. While that may be true for most cases it's not true for all. So this leads me to my point.



    More is better. People want to know how they can get more out of their phone whether they need it or not. Give them more screen, more MPs, more choices, more apps, more colors, more storage sizes give them every damn thing they ever wished for. Why? Because in the end...it's the uneducated that reallllly keep the world spinning.



    Heck...if everyone know how to fix computers I would e out of a job.

    I think that may be the case for phone geeks like us but not necessarily for the public at large. The iPhone's popularity isn't springing from speed of its chipset or the number of cores. People come into the carriers' stores, see how the phones work and what they've heard about them and buy what looks good to them. If dual cores will add some additional functionality, fine, but at this stage, it appears it will only add to the cost of the handset with few, if any, hands on benefits for the end user. The way that dual core MIGHT be useful now is if you switched a 1GHz single core chip with a 800MHz dual core, since it would in reality only use the one core for most operations and the lower power demands would extend battery life. Personally, I think that would be a step backward.

    I think of Androids as 60's era muscle cars while the WP7 phones are more like a Lotus Esprit. The muscle cars have the huge engines and giant tires but are woefully inefficient while the Lotus has a perfectly tuned 4 cylinder engine that wrings every bit of power out of its small powerplant efficiently. Yes, you could drop that 400 cubic inch V-8 into the Lotus but why would you?
  16. power5's Avatar
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    #16  
    They did drop a V8 in lotus esprits. The 4cyl was not very reliable so your analogy is not a very good one. :) The experience of a well running esprit is close to heaven from all reports I have read. So that part does work as a good analogy for WP.

    DC on a OS designed to use it well is good. Android drains batteries because it NEEDS as many cores at full power as possible. WP would not need that much power but when it did for an app, boom, its got it. Just like my desktop. For web surfing and any desktop program like word or such, I am using like 10% on both cores. Drop in a game and boom, I am at 95% on both cores. When at 10% my CPU throttles down and turns down the vcore as well. ARM do the same thing.
  17. Umm Yeah's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by power5 View Post
    They did drop a V8 in lotus esprits. The 4cyl was not very reliable so your analogy is not a very good one. :) The experience of a well running esprit is close to heaven from all reports I have read. So that part does work as a good analogy for WP.
    Well, you are right in that they did add a V8 in its 20th year of production. Before that, they were all 4 cylinder engines and if they were that unreliable (in high end sports car terms, of course!), I would have thought that would have changed before the 20th year. Regardless, I still say my analogy holds with the caveat that Android is to 60's muscle cars as WP7 is to Lotus Esprit cars made between 1976 and 1995. ;)
  18. power5's Avatar
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    #18  
    Giorgetto Giugiaro was a genius with car design. The unreliability started when they added the turbos to the S3, I thought.

    Anyway, just spotted the 2013 Esprit. DAMNNNNN.


  19. Blacklac's Avatar
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    #19  
    OT, but that is beautiful! Man. To have money...
  20. smartpatrol's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1jaxstate1 View Post
    Just because they don't impress you doesn't mean it's disappointing. Nokia, Samsung, HTC have done a good job covering all bases. With Acer and other OEMS still going to chime in, I say the number of devices are just about right. More coming from Nokia soon. What else do you want. Please don't say the bull**** dual core/1 Gig or Ram line.
    The disappointing thing isn't the specs. The disappointing thing is seeing only AT&T getting high-end WP7.5 devices. Then, T-Mobile gets the mediocre Radar, and Verizon and Sprint get nothing.

    Meanwhile, Apple launches their iPhone 4S on the 3 biggest US carriers simultaneously. As for Android, there is practically a new high-end Android device launched every week.
  21. selfcreation's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by sharksandwich View Post
    The disappointing thing isn't the specs. The disappointing thing is seeing only AT&T getting high-end WP7.5 devices. Then, T-Mobile gets the mediocre Radar, and Verizon and Sprint get nothing.

    Meanwhile, Apple launches their iPhone 4S on the 3 biggest US carriers simultaneously. As for Android, there is practically a new high-end Android device launched every week.
    so switch carriers......

    i work for BELL and get a FREE PHONE + Cell PHONE LINE!! , but they ditn get the focus so i when to ROGERS to pay 60$ a month + 200$ for the actual phone….... i really wanted the phone...

    BTW for does of you that dont know.

    MS has nothing to do with WITCH carrier gets witch device, if the carriers don’t want it , MS can’t enforce it. It’s up to Samsung ,Nokia , LG, dell and HTC to get contracts going with the carriers to get does phones.

    Iphone is on 90% of the carriers (100% in Canada) you cant compare that to what carriers have WP. every carrier WHANTS the Iphone cause its guaranty $$$$ which is NOT the case with WP. so it’s less tempting to pay a 20million for a WP contract when you can do 30million for a Iphone/Android that has GURANTY sells!

    Hardware Manufactures rely on 90% of the Possible revenue to Justify the Fabrication of a SMARTPHONE. , Just like you would not invest MILLIONS into a NEW company but you would if it was a BIG AND ESTABLISH company. ( in this case its not a establish company but a establish Cell phone OS ) !



    sure MS might stop Companies from Busting out duel-core WP ... but they have nothing to do with them NOT making WP7 at all!

    Example of the Hierarchy:

    MS --> Samsung --> AT&T

    Samsung MAKES the phone then Offers AT&T a contract for the RIGHTS to sell that phone or the RIGHTS to have it Exclusively (depending on many factors)

    MS simply collect royalties for the $$ Samsung made of the AT&T contract. <
    MS made the OS ,, MS Updates the OS... MS sits back and Brings in the royalties. that’s it.<
    Last edited by Se1fcr3ation; 11-16-2011 at 08:39 AM.
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  22. wolf1891's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by sharksandwich View Post
    The disappointing thing isn't the specs. The disappointing thing is seeing only AT&T getting high-end WP7.5 devices. Then, T-Mobile gets the mediocre Radar, and Verizon and Sprint get nothing.

    Meanwhile, Apple launches their iPhone 4S on the 3 biggest US carriers simultaneously. As for Android, there is practically a new high-end Android device launched every week.
    This! Not that the Radar is a bad phone (played with one for a while, liked it alot) but, it's nowhere near nice enough to get me thinking about upgrading from my DVP. Whereas if I were on AT+T, I might be contemplating some of the nifty new options that they are getting. Still hoping for a top of the line Nokia showing up on T-mo but, I'm not holding my breath... :unsure:
  23. smartpatrol's Avatar
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    #23  
    The bottom line is that it's Microsoft's job to convince carriers, OEMs, and consumers that they want Windows Phone. They have failed pretty miserably in that regard, judging by that report of 1.7% US marketshare earlier this week.

    So whatever, blame MS, blame carriers, blame OEMs, blame consumers. . . regardless of whose "fault" it is, the puny # of WP7.5 phones is a disappointment.
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