[Vishal Prakash]

97_920.jpg

Three years and + 3 mega pixels and I do not know how many technological advancements later....

The left side image is taken from N97 mini, right image is from Lumia 920

sorry, this is a bit OT

[fancy0479]

The fluorescent setting fixes the weird fluorescent colors for me.

But I think AUTO should work properly instead of letting the user to do the manual work.

[fancy0479]

Incorrect. I am fully aware of the 2-stage shutter key. But pressing the key half-way does NOT put the camera in continuous auto-focus mode. It merely lets the camera focus on the center of what you are CURRENTLY pointing the camera at when you press it halfway. It's the exact same system used on the Nokia N8. Meaning once you press it halfway and the camera focuses, you must take a picture of what you've made the camera focus on, if you choose another scenery while its pressed and the disparity in distance is too great, your picture will come out out of focus.

Pressing the 2-stage shutter key is almost exactly the same as touching the middle of the screen to take a snap, except with a slightly wider focus range in the middle. The iPhone 5 however, has true continuous auto-focus, meaning while the camera is active, it continually refocuses as you move the camera around when trying to pick a scenery. It's always there, always ready to take a picture for you as soon as your finger touches the snap icon.

One day, I've tried iPhone 5 and 920. The former take pictures like 1-2 times faster than 920.
And I pressed the snap icon on iPhone 5, directly pressed down the snap button on 920.
So this impressed me a lot in a slight bad way.

[vlad0]

Three years and + 3 mega pixels and I do not know how many technological advancements later....

Again.. Nokia's understanding of Symbian is much, much better than WP. We are talking about years of "in house" development and R&D... not the case with the 920. The fact that they actually managed to produce what they did is still pretty impressive considering the time frame.

And the other point.. the only way to significantly improve image quality is by using better (they are generally bigger) optics and bigger image sensors. That is it. There is no (at least not yet) shortcuts you can take.. but then people moan about size, camera humps, etc. Well.. you can't have a 8 mm. thin phone and amazing imaging capabilities.

Honestly since the days of the N95/N97 the only significant advancement in imaging was shown in the Nokia N8 and the 808... and now to a certain extent in the 920 in terms of video stabilization and.. maybe low light, even tho the 808 can produce better results if you adjust the ISO.

Another test

By popular request: Nokia N8 vs Lumia 920 PR1.1 vs Ativ S camera test

[tebugg]

i think what's lost in this whole convo is the fact that the camera doesnt just take daylight pics. if you have to pick on this 1 thing about the lumia 920 camera to give another camera an advantage then the lumia 920's camera has already won. lets compare the lumia 920's camera to the iphone 5's in all camera category's (since after all you're talking about the camera and not just daytime pics)

daytime pics: i'll concede this to iphone 5 to prove my point although i dont think this is the case if you actually know how to take pics.
nighttime pics: lumia 920
daytime video: lumia 920
nighttime video: lumia 920
video audio (since this goes hand in hand with the video): lumia 920 with HAAC mics

so if we're talking about the camera of the lumia 920 vs. the iphone 5, the lumia 920 beats it period. as i already said, you have to really be nit picking to find 1 thing to give the iphone 5 an advantage. that says alot about the lumia 920's camera.

[vlad0]

I've been saying that for a while.. they should compare the whole "camera package" not just one aspect of it...

[smoledman]

Daytime & bright indoor photos represent 80% of smartphone camera use cases and the iPhone has it covered.

[Davidkoh]

Daytime & bright indoor photos represent 80% of smartphone camera use cases and the iPhone has it covered.

Please show me the data for that stat.

There are loads and loads of major problems with even trying to gather the data for that, and even if that succeeded you still have to get rid of the problems surrounding that people with phones that give crap pictures in low light will not use their phones in low light. So please tell us how you came up with that number.

[onlineharvest]

Daytime & bright indoor photos represent 80% of smartphone camera use cases and the iPhone has it covered.

I find this hard to believe (aside from the obvious made up statistic). You are making the typical mistake of equating 'low light' with night. The majority of indoor shots would represent a lower light situation than bright. Or do you think the camera sees what your eye sees? Anyone who uses a DSLR will understand the difference.

Anecdotally, the majority of photos I've seen taken with cell phones have been in lower light situations. Most people work for a living, and end up taking shots at dinner parties, after dusk with friends and families, birthdays, kids sports events, etc - just looking at my phone and seeing the photos my family shares with me, most are night shots ( new years eve, dinner at vacation, coffee at a bar, etc).

[robmif76]

Please show me the data for that stat.

There are loads and loads of major problems with even trying to gather the data for that, and even if that succeeded you still have to get rid of the problems surrounding that people with phones that give crap pictures in low light will not use their phones in low light. So please tell us how you came up with that number.

There's no "official" data on that it's just how individuals tend to use their cameras mostly. In my case I also use the camera 75% for daytime photos.

The point is, after all the hype of the 920's super duper 5 balls camera, it lacks in one of the most important areas in respect to competition. That's a hard fact despite all the apologists coming up with lines like "you have to use manual settings" or "nokia don't know WP8 as well as they did Symbian". Me as a consumer, I don't care about Nokia's hardships. I just want a product that works as it should and unfortunately I'm finding the 920 lacking in many areas. I understand this is a new product and no doubt in a year's time Nokia + WP8 will be in a good place but presently they are not worth the money.

[maverick786us]

i think what's lost in this whole convo is the fact that the camera doesnt just take daylight pics. if you have to pick on this 1 thing about the lumia 920 camera to give another camera an advantage then the lumia 920's camera has already won. lets compare the lumia 920's camera to the iphone 5's in all camera category's (since after all you're talking about the camera and not just daytime pics)

daytime pics: i'll concede this to iphone 5 to prove my point although i dont think this is the case if you actually know how to take pics.
nighttime pics: lumia 920
daytime video: lumia 920
nighttime video: lumia 920
video audio (since this goes hand in hand with the video): lumia 920 with HAAC mics

so if we're talking about the camera of the lumia 920 vs. the iphone 5, the lumia 920 beats it period. as i already said, you have to really be nit picking to find 1 thing to give the iphone 5 an advantage. that says alot about the lumia 920's camera.

I do agree that except for daytime pics in, every other department Lumia 920 has outclassed iphone 5. But my purpose of this thread was just the comparision of daytime shots with iPhone 5 with this firmware update, not the overall comparision. Imagine in rest of the department Lumia 920 outclass iPhone 5, with daytime if Lumia 920 gains huge lead beyond the imagination of iPhone 5??

[TK2011]

I think the daytime shots are just about the same. People will have a hard time distingishing between the two in a blind test. So what matters way more in daylight would be shooting and post-processing skills (both technical and artistic). The problem for iphone is that the 920 wipes the floor with it in low light. It seems some people don't have a good grasp of what that means. We are talking a difference between having a picture to show for if you got L920 and nothing (or garbage) to show for if you got iphone. And that's the way camera battles are usually won and lost these days -- low light performance. If you've been around in photography, you would know that just about all DSLR cameras costing anywhere from $400 to $5000 take very good daylight pictures these days. People have a hard time telling any difference in picture quality. It's the low light performance where cheap DSLRs fall short most drastically, just like iphone against the 920. To me, L920 is a no brainer winner here. But if you know you will only shoot in daylight, by all means pick any phone you like and be happy.

[vlad0]

Daytime & bright indoor photos represent 80% of smartphone camera use cases and the iPhone has it covered.

Sure.. and its pretty much useless for those other 20%..

I just want a product that works as it should and unfortunately I'm finding the 920 lacking in many areas. I understand this is a new product and no doubt in a year's time Nokia + WP8 will be in a good place but presently they are not worth the money.

You are right, and I can tell you what happened.. first they should've kept the first pureview phone inside the lab, second.. since that didn't happen, they should have used different marketing for the 920. The "pureview" brand already had set the bar way too high... I don't know who's idea was it to advertise the 920 as a "pureview" phone, but whoever it was.. bad call.

So.. Nokia messed up, which happens quite often acutally..

[Fitu Pham]

yeah such awful pictures if compares to DSLR Cam, I love your pics

[Fitu Pham]

I don't have an iPhone 5 to compare it with, but here are some of the horrible, terrible, awful, ugly, blurry daytime pics I took with my 920 BEFORE the software update:

Attachment 26334
Attachment 26335
Attachment 26336
Attachment 26337
Attachment 26339

Sorry to subject you guys to these awful daytime pictures from my 920. I know they are so bad I should probably have tagged them as NWS.

Yeah such awful pictures if compares to DSLR Cam, I love your pics

[Davidkoh]

There's no "official" data on that it's just how individuals tend to use their cameras mostly. In my case I also use the camera 75% for daytime photos.

The point is, after all the hype of the 920's super duper 5 balls camera, it lacks in one of the most important areas in respect to competition. That's a hard fact despite all the apologists coming up with lines like "you have to use manual settings" or "nokia don't know WP8 as well as they did Symbian". Me as a consumer, I don't care about Nokia's hardships. I just want a product that works as it should and unfortunately I'm finding the 920 lacking in many areas. I understand this is a new product and no doubt in a year's time Nokia + WP8 will be in a good place but presently they are not worth the money.

I can't say that's how I use my camera mostly. I am working during the day, so is most of my friends so when we get together the sun is rarely shining brightly through the window (if we are inside). Are you saying most pictures are taken at work/school?

Judging from everyone I know and what pictures I see them upload to Facebook/Instagram I would say most of their pictures are taken inside with the lights dimmed down (how cozy is it to have a dinner/party with bright lights turned on?).

When I was choosing phone I wanted to choose between Android, iOS and WP8. I'd rather take slightly worse pictures in perfect lighting if that makes my pictures good in low light. Judging from my friends iPhone 4S/5 pictures from dinner parties/restaurants//parties and so on they are useless.

What is wrong with using manual settings to improve the quality further? The auto mode works and is not crap, and as on any decent camera you have the option to improve it with manual settings. What bothers me more is the smartphones that completely lack support for manual settings.

[rareohs]

Question for you guys (and gals):

my #1 beef my the camera on my 920 was the soft focusing. that is *definitely* improved with the Portico update. Not to where I'd like it to be, but unquestionably better.

NOW, my #1 beef is how it exposes images. On the iPhone, you press and hold on any part of the image and it not only focuses on that point, it also **adjusts the exposure** for that spot. So if you have an area that's sunny and another that's shady, you get to choose which area is exposed properly.

On the 920, when you press and hold on any part of the image, it adjusts ONLY the focus to that point. To adjust the exposure, you have to do it for the entire scene by adjusting in the settings menu, which is a HUGE pain in the you know what. (if I am a complete ***** and I'm missing something here, by all means fill me in!!!)

I have to say, while I LOVE my 920, I'm disappointed in the camera. I used iPhone > iPhone 3 > iPhone 4; so between 2007 and late 2012 I knew nothing but iPhone cameras, and perhaps I just got used to the way that iOS manages and processes images, and now that's my standard (not to say that one is good and the other bad, it's just what i've been used to for so long.) I just know that when I point my wife's iPhone 4S at something, I'm much more likely to get the image that I'm picturing in my head, as compared to using my 920.

[conanheath]

Am I the only person who has "glowing eyes" in almost all indoor and low light photos? Only way I have found to get rid of it is have everybody turn around and get a picture of their backside. Or post edit. I can decrease exposure time and help but then pics are dark. Auto settings are crap. I can get great pics of landscape as well. But I can't get a descent indoor people picture to save my life. Outdoor is ok, but indoor or low light sucks. I get 1 in 10 worth keeping. I had plenty of time over holidays to take pics with family and I spent all my time deleting or editing to get pics worth keeping. This is why the camera is worthless for me. I want point, click and done. If I wanted to spend all my time with settings and post editing I would get a camera. My moms 4s took great pics the whole time and I got a bunch of useless pics.

[TK2011]

Check out this previous thread on a real photo comparison between iphone 5 vs Lumia 920. You do NOT want iphone 5 when shooting in low light.

Can you pick the picture taken with 920?

[TK2011]

Question for you guys (and gals):

my #1 beef my the camera on my 920 was the soft focusing. that is *definitely* improved with the Portico update. Not to where I'd like it to be, but unquestionably better.

NOW, my #1 beef is how it exposes images. On the iPhone, you press and hold on any part of the image and it not only focuses on that point, it also **adjusts the exposure** for that spot. So if you have an area that's sunny and another that's shady, you get to choose which area is exposed properly.

On the 920, when you press and hold on any part of the image, it adjusts ONLY the focus to that point. To adjust the exposure, you have to do it for the entire scene by adjusting in the settings menu, which is a HUGE pain in the you know what. (if I am a complete ***** and I'm missing something here, by all means fill me in!!!)

I have to say, while I LOVE my 920, I'm disappointed in the camera. I used iPhone > iPhone 3 > iPhone 4; so between 2007 and late 2012 I knew nothing but iPhone cameras, and perhaps I just got used to the way that iOS manages and processes images, and now that's my standard (not to say that one is good and the other bad, it's just what i've been used to for so long.) I just know that when I point my wife's iPhone 4S at something, I'm much more likely to get the image that I'm picturing in my head, as compared to using my 920.

920 has an excellent AE. In fact, better than my D7000. Just make sure your composition is reasonable and it exposes very accurately. Like all cameras, AE is not a perfect science. Sometimes you need to use EV adjustment a bit. Pros do it all the time on their $3000 cameras.

If you MUST use "spot metering" technique, CameraPro let you do that by allowing exposure lock.

[Davidkoh]

Am I the only person who has "glowing eyes" in almost all indoor and low light photos? Only way I have found to get rid of it is have everybody turn around and get a picture of their backside. Or post edit. I can decrease exposure time and help but then pics are dark. Auto settings are crap. I can get great pics of landscape as well. But I can't get a descent indoor people picture to save my life. Outdoor is ok, but indoor or low light sucks. I get 1 in 10 worth keeping. I had plenty of time over holidays to take pics with family and I spent all my time deleting or editing to get pics worth keeping. This is why the camera is worthless for me. I want point, click and done. If I wanted to spend all my time with settings and post editing I would get a camera. My moms 4s took great pics the whole time and I got a bunch of useless pics.

No problem. I usually use Auto, if it has really much trouble I usually do a few manual changes in 2 seconds and get a good picture. Are you using the flash to get the glowing eyes?

[rareohs]

If you MUST use "spot metering" technique, CameraPro let you do that by allowing exposure lock.

awesome, appreciate that tip. I often want to expose certain areas rather than just letting the camera decide. I find my 920 almost always chooses the brightest area to exposure properly, leaving the darker ares totally dark... and sometimes i want the same composition but those areas exposed! guess i need to try CameraPro!

[TK2011]

awesome, appreciate that tip. I often want to expose certain areas rather than just letting the camera decide. I find my 920 almost always chooses the brightest area to exposure properly, leaving the darker ares totally dark... and sometimes i want the same composition but those areas exposed! guess i need to try CameraPro!

Yeah i know what you mean. Samsung Focus has an option for spot metering. L920 doesn't. With CameraPro you can point your camera at the subject, lock the exposure and recompose. It's a bit different than straight spot metering but it does the same job. I think Fhotoroom has a direct spot metering option where you have indepedent control of AF and AE areas. But I'm not sure it works very well though.

[arni99]

Sold my Lumia 920 last week and still have an iPhone 5 and a Nokia Pureview 808 which was used for the late night pic of a glas of beer...not very creative I know but I'm sure many of you can post a pic like that with the Lumia 920 or the iPhone or any other smartphone for comparing detail, sharpness and whatnot.

Nokia Pureview 808 beer-pic :)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/48914841/2013-01-07-0068.jpg

[vlad0]

Sold my Lumia 920 last week and still have an iPhone 5 and a Nokia Pureview 808 which was used for the late night pic of a glas of beer...not very creative I know but I'm sure many of you can post a pic like that with the Lumia 920 and the iPhone and other smartphones for comparing detail, sharpness and whatnot.

Nokia Pureview 808 beer-pic :)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/48914841/2013-01-07-0068.jpg

Same setup here.. the iPhone 5 is mostly used for gaming, the 808 is the main "daily driver" or whatever the modern term for that is. As far as the camera.. the phase 1 phone is in a league of its own. The flash performance is aided by a powerful xenon flash, and pixel oversampling.. so you get a bright, low noise picture.. and you can freeze motion really easy. Here is one from the dance floor.. everyone moving, including myself.. but everything is frozen, detail, color.. it does as well as most p&s.

http://s019.radikal.ru/i603/1301/51/09bca02a3ff7.jpg

The iphone 5 can't even get to .. 20% of this kind of performance.. as soon as the sun goes down, the camera is pretty much useless.