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  1. tekhna's Avatar
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       #1  
    That seems to be what their press release implies, does anyone know how they define "smart device"?

    Nokia currently estimates that Devices & Services net sales in the first quarter 2012 were EUR 4.2 billion, comprised of Mobile Phones net sales of EUR 2.3 billion (71 million units), Smart Devices net sales of EUR 1.7 billion (12 million units)


    In the first quarter 2012, Nokia sold more than 2 million Lumia devices at an average selling price of approximately EUR 220 (reported within the Smart Devices business unit).

    Nokia: Two million Lumia phones sold in Q1 but profits still falling -- Engadget

    So they sold 12 million smartphones. 2 million of them were Lumias. What the **** are the other 10 million?? That's really not a good sign..
  2. inteller's Avatar
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    #2  
    true...you never see these devices because they are in 3rd world countries. Nokia is still the largest phone maker in the world.
  3. Dormage's Avatar
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    #3  
    It might not be a good sign but I don't think its a bad one!
    Nokia has lots of other smartphones that are still selling like for example N7.
    Lumia still hasn't reached all the markets. China will probably be a big sale booster.(mostly because of the population). Then another thing to note is the Lumia family is still "new" and most people don't know of it's existance. It was said many times on this forum that profit does not come from lines of people waiting for the lunch but the continuos sale !
    If Nokia keeps up like this and converts the non-smartphone numbers to smartphone numbers it's a WIN!
    It's going to be a slow process but as far as I see Nokia knows that and they knew it before taking on WP7.

    Its gona be a long ride, sit back and enjoy the show :)
    Maybe invest a few $ in Nokia, might be good for you in the future :P
  4. cp2_4eva's Avatar
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    Yes, I'd say invest a few dollars in Nokia because IMO the stock will go up. Most def by a little, maybe by alot. Who knows.
  5. tekhna's Avatar
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       #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dormage View Post
    It might not be a good sign but I don't think its a bad one!
    Nokia has lots of other smartphones that are still selling like for example N7.
    Lumia still hasn't reached all the markets. China will probably be a big sale booster.(mostly because of the population). Then another thing to note is the Lumia family is still "new" and most people don't know of it's existance. It was said many times on this forum that profit does not come from lines of people waiting for the lunch but the continuos sale !
    If Nokia keeps up like this and converts the non-smartphone numbers to smartphone numbers it's a WIN!
    It's going to be a slow process but as far as I see Nokia knows that and they knew it before taking on WP7.

    Its gona be a long ride, sit back and enjoy the show :)
    Maybe invest a few $ in Nokia, might be good for you in the future :P

    You're going to have to explain to me how selling 5 times more phones based on an operating system that's been end-of-lifed remotely resembles a positive. These phones run dead operating systems, and yet people are still buying them at a much greater rate. 2 million is a great number, but even so, one model Samsung phone, the Note, sold 5 million.
  6. tekhna's Avatar
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       #6  
    The other thing that looks just brutal for Nokia is they sold 20 million fewer dumbphones Q1. That could end up being the real problem--they need to sell lots and lots of dumb phones to maintain liquidity, which in turn allows them to push higher margin smartphones.
  7. Seketh's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
    That seems to be what their press release implies, does anyone know how they define "smart device"?

    Nokia currently estimates that Devices & Services net sales in the first quarter 2012 were EUR 4.2 billion, comprised of Mobile Phones net sales of EUR 2.3 billion (71 million units), Smart Devices net sales of EUR 1.7 billion (12 million units)


    In the first quarter 2012, Nokia sold more than 2 million Lumia devices at an average selling price of approximately EUR 220 (reported within the Smart Devices business unit).

    Nokia: Two million Lumia phones sold in Q1 but profits still falling -- Engadget

    So they sold 12 million smartphones. 2 million of them were Lumias. What the **** are the other 10 million?? That's really not a good sign..
    It's been only a year since Nokia got into Windows Phone and 6 months since the first Lumia was announced, and it's still only now being released in various countries.

    You people can't possibly expect the Lumia devices to make up the bulk of Nokia smartphone sales.
  8. based_graham's Avatar
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    #8  
    Chill Lumia has 2 phones 710, 800. Once more handsets and carrier support arrives then the stock will slowly climb back up.
  9. Jrexxx's Avatar
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    People of the USA, Symbian is NOT dead! If it's dead in the US that doesn't mean that it's dead in the rest of the world. In fact I don't think that Nokia are even planing to kill it anytime soon. Announcing MS Office for Symbian yesterday is a good example.
  10. tekhna's Avatar
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       #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jrexxx View Post
    People of the USA, Symbian is NOT dead! If it's dead in the US that doesn't mean that it's dead in the rest of the world. In fact I don't think that Nokia are even planing to kill it anytime soon. Announcing MS Office for Symbian yesterday is a good example.
    Yeah, it actually appears Symbian is more alive than WP7.
  11. ubizmo's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
    You're going to have to explain to me how selling 5 times more phones based on an operating system that's been end-of-lifed remotely resembles a positive. These phones run dead operating systems, and yet people are still buying them at a much greater rate. 2 million is a great number, but even so, one model Samsung phone, the Note, sold 5 million.
    Easily done. These sales represent a significant revenue stream for Nokia, and that revenue gives them the ability to last long enough for their WP devices to gain market share. If they were completely dependent upon the sales of WP phones to make payroll, they'd probably fail in less than a year.

    As has already been pointed out, there are still millions and millions of people in the world for whom a smartphone is still out of reach. It's very positive that Nokia remains strong in that market. Indeed, despite the repeated claims that RIM is dead, BlackBerry also remains strong in the developing world, which gives them the revenue to survive 2012, a year during which they are essentially treading water until BB10 is launched. RIM is still a profitable company, and so is Nokia, and that is positive.
  12. tekhna's Avatar
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       #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by ubizm0 View Post
    Easily done. These sales represent a significant revenue stream for Nokia, and that revenue gives them the ability to last long enough for their WP devices to gain market share. If they were completely dependent upon the sales of WP phones to make payroll, they'd probably fail in less than a year.

    As has already been pointed out, there are still millions and millions of people in the world for whom a smartphone is still out of reach. It's very positive that Nokia remains strong in that market. Indeed, despite the repeated claims that RIM is dead, BlackBerry also remains strong in the developing world, which gives them the revenue to survive 2012, a year during which they are essentially treading water until BB10 is launched. RIM is still a profitable company, and so is Nokia, and that is positive.
    How is selling 20 million fewer dumbphones "remaining strong in that market"?
  13. ubizmo's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
    How is selling 20 million fewer dumbphones "remaining strong in that market"?
    Fair enough, but there's a difference between falling profits and being unprofitable. As long as they're still turning a profit, they can stay in business and try to last long enough for their WP devices to make headway. That's the point. You asked for a positive; that's positive. Positive doesn't imply best-case.

    Obviously, there's no way to know whether Nokia's, or anyone else's, WP phones will make any real headway in the smartphone market. But if they had to depend upon their WP revenue to survive, they'd be dead in the water.
  14. Jrexxx's Avatar
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    #14  
    Just want to add that Nokia are planing on killing Symbian in 2016. And what ubizm0 is saying makes sense: Symbian serves as a crossing bridge for Nokia to transition to WP. Once the transition is complete, and they feel that WP is profitable enough to keep the company going they'll kill Symbian. Seems like it's going to take a while since they're planing to keep Symbian alive for 4 more years...
  15. ubizmo's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jrexxx View Post
    Just want to add that Nokia are planing on killing Symbian in 2016. And what ubizm0 is saying makes sense: Symbian serves as a crossing bridge for Nokia to transition to WP. Once the transition is complete, and they feel that WP is profitable enough to keep the company going they'll kill Symbian. Seems like it's going to take a while since they're planing to keep Symbian alive for 4 more years...
    The world is transitioning to smartphones, but it'll take years. In the meantime, even though the dumbphone market is dwindling, there's still money to be made there. In the developing world, low-end smartphones will be the next step up as dumbphones are finally phased out. At the moment, that means WP, BB, and entry-level Android devices. It remains to be seen who will win that battle.
  16. gregoron's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by ubizm0 View Post
    The world is transitioning to smartphones, but it'll take years. In the meantime, even though the dumbphone market is dwindling, there's still money to be made there. In the developing world, low-end smartphones will be the next step up as dumbphones are finally phased out. At the moment, that means WP, BB, and entry-level Android devices. It remains to be seen who will win that battle.
    Of these 3, probably the easiest to "dumbify" is WP. And Nokia's got foothold in the intellectually-challenged phone market. This bodes well for MS and Nokia.
  17. ubizmo's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by gregoron View Post
    Of these 3, probably the easiest to "dumbify" is WP. And Nokia's got foothold in the intellectually-challenged phone market. This bodes well for MS and Nokia.

    I agree that WP has some advantages in this market, and MS is clearly conscious of the fact and working carefully to exploit it (Tango). BB has some advantages too, such as data compression and BBM. In emerging markets the focus, I believe, is more on communication and less on the more "decadent" aspects of smartphones, such as games and streaming media. And liberal data plans are less likely.

    This makes me wonder about MS's recent investment of 3.5 billion in RIM. I see something big happening.

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