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  1. diaspar's Avatar
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       #1  
    A series of events about Nokia indicating that this company may be in serious trouble and I am picturing myself one day in not so far future bragging about how great the Lumia 920 was and how sad it was still not enough to save the company.

    Think about the recent Nokia related news, none of them pretty.

    -- 920/820 were released but so long they still can't announce the pricing and availability and can't seem to line up the major carriers in major countries. Even if this is their last battle worth fighting but they don't show the eagerness and energy. With Iphone 5 releasing and sold 5M in 3 days and a big success for the GS3, I would price my best devices competitive and push them to every single carrier I can find in every country on this planet.
    -- latest study shows that Windows Phone is hold a pathetic 3.5% market share.
    -- As soon as HTC announce 8x and 8s, they become "THE" windows phone 8 on MS WP page.
    -- rumor says that MS is building their own windows phone and I suspect it is very likely. Look at the interview with Elop he sounds bitter (May I quote what Elop's response? "even if it is true, we have contractual rights to unique technology", what technology you are talking about?)
    -- latest rumor is that Nokia is going to sell their HQ building...


    I like Nokia, my first dummy phone is Nokia and it was very nice and cool. But all the negative news/rumors make me wonder if I should jump onto a sinking ship, maybe I should get a 8x instead?
    Last edited by diaspar; 10-03-2012 at 02:39 AM.
  2. #2  
    Im the other way to you, as I went and bought some Nokia shares as I think the 920/820 will be a success, well I think that they will shift more of them than the previous generation.
    You only have to look at the online polls that are running, far more people want a 920 than a 8X
  3. diaspar's Avatar
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       #3  
    I bought some Nokia stock myself as well a while ago and I was hoping that they can do a great turnaround.

    No doubt that 820/920 are good devices but good device may not be good enough to save the whole mess. Lack of execution can still ruin it. Do you think Elop is a good leader, no, I don't thinks so... The bet on WP is a mistake in my opinion. They will be in a much better position if they support both WP and Android. They get nothing from MS being exclusively on WP.
  4. SnailUK's Avatar
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    #4  
    I can't believe any of this comes as a supprise.

    Nokia has been in trouble for ages, the non-upgrading of WP7 devices to WP8 $%^&ed them right over, at a point where they were starting to gain traction in the mobile sales market.

    The first month or 2 of WP8 sales will really dictate the future of Nokia. If sales are epic, things look good. If not, either Microsoft will buy Nokia, or Nokia will move to Android, and probably become an also-ran there too.

    The HTC move was clever on Microsofts part. It will hopefully show the Microsoft isn't just dedicated to WP8 & Nokia. If they didn't do something like that soon, Microsoft & Nokia would be pushed too close together, and WP8 will just become a one make race.

    Personally, i think the initial device line up is good, 3 very good OEMs, the WP8 feature set looks like it cures a lot of the issues with WP7, so really its down to the next few weeks. I expect Microsoft to go mad marketing WP8, same for Nokia. It'll be interesting to see just how commited HTC & Samsung are. HTC seem commited, not seen much from Samsung yet.
  5. Coreldan's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by diaspar View Post
    They get nothing from MS being exclusively on WP.
    I believe they did, which was a large sum of money for going exclusively WP.
  6. paulheu's Avatar
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    #6  
    • 920/820 were announced, not released.
    • While WP share is low, it's grown significantly and Nokia holds well over half of that.
    • iPhone will sell millions even if it's a tin of spam
    • Rumours are just that, I highly doubt this to be true, at least in any direct competitive way and even if true it's more than likely MSFT will sell these through their stores only (like surface) which would mean US only for now.
    • Selling a building is a rather normal practice for huge companies like Nokia, it costs a lot of money to maintain and manage and it's cheaper to rent.


    I do not see Nokia go anywhere any time soon. They have a healthy technology, services and patent portfolio, WP is still a minor part of heir revenue and they still sell devices like hotcakes on a daily basis which cost hem peanuts to make and bring in a decent margin.

    If you feel you should go with HTC be my guest, but be prepared to be disappointed. HTC is nowhere near as dedicated to either the WP platform or their user base and you'll miss out on a lot of Nokia goodies in he mean time. I'll happily get myself an 820 next month, skip the 920 and then switch to the Lumia monster phone which I expect will come next year.
  7. diaspar's Avatar
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       #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Coreldan View Post
    I believe they did, which was a large sum of money for going exclusively WP.
    True, but that money is not enough to save Nokia from the mess. Lumia 800/900 will be a much bigger success if they are on Android as well. Look at how much GS II and GS III are sold by Samsung.
  8. WasteSomeTime's Avatar
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    #8  
    Why are people so concerned about saving Nokia? There are other companies out there.
    Just about every thread has someone concerned about how Nokia is going to survive.

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  9. SnailUK's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by diaspar View Post
    The bet on WP is a mistake in my opinion. They will be in a much better position if they support both WP and Android. They get nothing from MS being exclusively on WP.
    Nothing? They've already (alledgedly) had more than a billion dollars from Microsoft, and they are the premier WP8 OEM, with access to the WP source which HTC, Samsung, etc al don't have.

    Nokia have already started plugging holes in WP7 (Bluetooth, contact sharing, Backup, etc), in a way no other OEM could. I can't imagine WP8 will be any different.

    Put Nokia on Android, and whats soo special about them? Other than pureview nothing, they'll be another HTC, struggling to find a niche.
  10. VagrantWade's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by diaspar View Post
    A series of events about Nokia indicating that this company may be in serious trouble and I am picturing myself one day in not so far future bragging about how great the Lumia 920 was and how sad it was still not enough to save the company.

    Think about the recent Nokia related news, none of them pretty.

    -- 920/820 were released but so long they still can't announce the pricing and availability and can't seem to line up the major carriers in major countries. Even if this is their last battle worth fighting but they don't show the eagerness and energy. With Iphone 5 releasing and sold 5M in 3 days and a big success for the GS3, I would price my best devices competitive and push them to every single carrier I can find in every country on this planet.
    -- latest study shows that Windows Phone is hold a pathetic 3.5% market share.
    -- As soon as HTC announce 8x and 8s, they become "THE" windows phone 8 on MS WP page.
    -- rumor says that MS is building their own windows phone and I suspect it is very likely. Look at the interview with Elop he sounds bitter (May I quote what Elop's response? "even if it is true, we have contractual rights to unique technology", what technology you are talking about?)
    -- latest rumor is that Nokia is going to sell their HQ building...


    I like Nokia, my first dummy phone is Nokia and it was very nice and cool. But all the negative news/rumors make me wonder if I should jump onto a sinking ship, maybe I should get a 8x instead?

    You have a bad feeling because you read too many rumor sites where 80% of the stuff is bull****. HTC announced their devices the week after Nokia. I have yet to hear any pricing or release date for the US. They gave a month. An obvious month.

    Nokia will dominate HTC in the WP8 realm. Anyone with half a brain realizes this. If some rumor about them selling their HQ building for reasons not even given has swayed you, then I have a hard time believing you aren't just some HTC troll.
  11. diaspar's Avatar
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       #11  
    I don't think HTC is the concern here. NoKia needs to aim big to ios and android here. If they can't grab substaintial market share with their 920/820, they are done
  12. maverick786us's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by paulheu View Post
    • 920/820 were announced, not released.
    • While WP share is low, it's grown significantly and Nokia holds well over half of that.
    • iPhone will sell millions even if it's a tin of spam
    • Rumours are just that, I highly doubt this to be true, at least in any direct competitive way and even if true it's more than likely MSFT will sell these through their stores only (like surface) which would mean US only for now.
    • Selling a building is a rather normal practice for huge companies like Nokia, it costs a lot of money to maintain and manage and it's cheaper to rent.


    I do not see Nokia go anywhere any time soon. They have a healthy technology, services and patent portfolio, WP is still a minor part of heir revenue and they still sell devices like hotcakes on a daily basis which cost hem peanuts to make and bring in a decent margin.

    If you feel you should go with HTC be my guest, but be prepared to be disappointed. HTC is nowhere near as dedicated to either the WP platform or their user base and you'll miss out on a lot of Nokia goodies in he mean time. I'll happily get myself an 820 next month, skip the 920 and then switch to the Lumia monster phone which I expect will come next year.
    What is that Nokia monstor you are talking about?
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  13. cgk
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    #13  
    The big concern is actually Samsung, if the wp8 market expands significantly, they will ramp up their activities and use their size and economies of scale to steamroll both companies.

    Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
  14. VagrantWade's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by diaspar View Post
    I don't think HTC is the concern here. NoKia needs to aim big to ios and android here. If they can't grab substaintial market share with their 920/820, they are done
    Define substantial. Because if they do a bit better than they do now, they aren't going anywhere. They are big overseas.
  15. jabtano's Avatar
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    #15  
    First off , it does not take nor will it take a few months for Nokia to get it's legs back. The New lumia line has done very well with the new devices coming out as well. Now the Lumia line alone is not going to save Nokia. it's going to be a whole number of things how well the devices sell. how well they can offer there other products and Nokia getting rid of dead cash suckers such as taxes and insurance on a mammoth building so selling it and then renting is an option that I would look at if it was my Company. Nokia will be fine long term yes, and if MS does there own phone so what? it's not going to hurt Nokia you turn around and make something better =)
    paulheu likes this.
  16. diaspar's Avatar
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       #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by vagrantwade View Post
    Define substantial. Because if they do a bit better than they do now, they aren't going anywhere. They are big overseas.
    Exactly, they are big, and I can't imagine how desperate they are right now if they have to sell their HQ building (I would understand if it's some random building, but hey, HQ ...) BTW, the story about Nokia is selling their HQ building is on the front page of wpcentral, and if it's pure bull****, I guess we could all pack up and go somewhere else.

    I don't know how big the market share they have to grab, but beating HTC is not even close.
  17. paulheu's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by maverick786us View Post
    What is that Nokia monstor you are talking about?
    I expect Nokia to bring a device to the top end which will use all of the WP8 hardware options to the max. That would include a 20Mpix PureView camera, quadcore CPU, more memory and RAM and possibly a 5inch screen.

    For now the 820 will suite me just fine and I can always jump to the 920 if I'm wrong later.
  18. paulheu's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by diaspar View Post
    Exactly, they are big, and I can't imagine how desperate they are right now if they have to sell their HQ building (I would understand if it's some random building, but hey, HQ ...)
    The option to sell HQ was in the Q2 report, it's not news, nor is it an unexpected move for them. From your comments you show you do not really have an understanding of how these big companies operate in this respect.

    They will sell and then lease back as that will be much more cost effective. This is actually good news as it frees up a large amount of cash to be put to good use.

    Nokia is still the #1 phone seller shipping more devices than anyone else. That said they need to cut cost and this is an obvious and logical choice.
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  19. Ebaneeezor's Avatar
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    #19  
    dont forget that Nokia just broke into the China market on the biggest carrier that has 650 Million customers and that WP dominates in China.
  20. maverick786us's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by paulheu View Post
    I expect Nokia to bring a device to the top end which will use all of the WP8 hardware options to the max. That would include a 20Mpix PureView camera, quadcore CPU, more memory and RAM and possibly a 5inch screen.

    For now the 820 will suite me just fine and I can always jump to the 920 if I'm wrong later.
    Well that is a dream specs for everyone. But I don't hear any rumor on such device and I am not sure if Nokia will make any announcement about such device before Feb 2013. Although once WP8 becomes Active Nokia will release more and more high end devices. But your dream device will cannabailize the sales of their own Lumia 920
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  21. paulheu's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by maverick786us View Post
    Although once WP8 becomes Active Nokia will release more and more high end devices. But your dream device will cannabailize the sales of their own Lumia 920
    Which is why an announcement on such device would not be before March/April next year, maybe MWC 2013 at the earliest. As said, at that time I can always choose to go with the 920 anyway, so the 820 would be a good start for now. Nokia has been clear that the 820/920 are not all there is to come either up or down.
    Last edited by paulheu; 10-03-2012 at 05:18 AM.
  22. paulheu's Avatar
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    #22  
    Here is a good article on the possible sale of the real estate.

    Quote from above article;
    “As we said during Q2 results, Nokia is re-evaluating all non-core operations, including its real estate. However, we do not have any plans to move our headquarters,” a spokesperson said in an email (emphasis Nokia’s). “As with most companies whose core business is not in owning real estate, it makes common business sense not to tie assets in real estate property but rather invest and focus in its core operations.

    “Divesting real estate is an entirely different thing compared to the location of the headquarters. As we have said many times before, we have no plans to move our headquarters.”

    He points out that selling and re-leasing property is “not unusual” in Finland, with Kone doing the same in Keilaniemi in 2007. Similarly, UPM sold their headquarters in 2006 and Stora Enso did the same in 2008.
  23. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #23  
    Nokia has a lot of operating cash. They're fine for at least the next few years.

    Things LOOK bad because they are in a transition. They're not only changing their mobile OS, but they're changing their entire structure and focus as a company.

    Nokia used to go a ton of different things. They are streamlining now and focusing on just a few businesses now, like mobile phones and location services. So they're cutting out a lot of divisions they no longer need, and they're writing them all off as losses tight away instead of spacing those losses out on paper over a few years.

    Also, devices like the 920 are nice, but that isn't where their main growth will come from. It WI be from worldwide sales of the 520,620,720,etc...
  24. Xsever's Avatar
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    #24  
    I will buy the 920 when it comes out, but here are my 2 cents:

    Remember how excited you were the day Nokia announced the 920/820?! Imagine you could have bought the phone 3 days after that compared to your excitement now while awaiting.

    Apple has the marketing aspect of things nailed down, they announce a phone, and tell you when you can pre-order it and when it will launch and to which carriers. Nice and simple. People get very excited (over tin maybe too) and rush into stores to pre-order/buy.

    Nokia on the other hand is not on top of things pertaining to announcing pricing and carrier availability which is eating away from that excitement. One proof to this is some people starting to shift towards the 8X for example which was announced to be coming to AT&T in November.
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  25. Xsever's Avatar
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    #25  
    O2 in the UK just announced they will offer both HTC 8X and 8S.
    Nokia Lumia 920 | Rogers Wireless Canada
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