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  1. dave0538's Avatar
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       #1  
    hello everyone, I've been a long time viewer of wpcentral and a long time user of windows phone since it came out and even before that with the windows mobile platform. And after getting extremely tired of tmobile's bull about the lumia 810 and how they mistreat us 810 owners I've filed a BBB report to help remedy the situation.

    I've filed a complaint on the behalf of T-Mobile stiffing wp8 customers basically the 810 buyers with a phone that was EOL 5 months after its release and not warning the general public about such decision. I've also incorporated the severed updates for the phone, seeing how it has missed numerous nokia updates after the 1250 and we still don't have the Microsoft nokia fix for the storage issue.

    So in short I've come here to urge every 810 owner to go to the Better Business Bureau website United States and Canada BBB Consumer and Business Reviews, Reports, Ratings, Complaints and Accredited Business Listings and file a complaint.

    And in my settlement agreement I've opt for BBB to make T-Mobile either;

    1. Offer owners of the 810 a way to upgrade to a device that is being supported by T-Mobile with current payment made on the phone to be transferred to a new phone and have the 810 returned to them and abolish any remaining debt.

    2. Make it so that they remedy the situation and give us the updates we desperately need, and support the phones cycle of 2 years as Microsoft said.

    3. Make it so that nokia has permission and the right to make and distribute software for the 810 with NO INVOLVEMENT of T-Mobile.

    Thank you for your time. I hope many 810 users who are frustrated and felt robbed by T-Mobile will the right thing by filing a complaint.
  2. waazzupppp's Avatar
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    #2  
    I've written this first paragraph like 4 times now. I'm trying not to be negative about posts like this anymore, but everyone just needs to relax. The 810 may not be for sale at T-Mobile stores anymore, but that doesn't mean that they are dropping support for the device. Lets take a quick look at your points and take them one at a time.

    1) The 810 is still supported by T-Mobile as is the Radar 4G, Lumia 710 and even the HD7... Please don't mistake "not for sale" with "not supported". That said, we will have to see what support is offered going forward. When you look at this in comparison, the AT&T HTC Titan which was replaced by the Titan II in about the same time frame. Nobody sued or threatened to over that one. The Titan received one update from AT&T before it was shelved. We couldn't even edit APN's for use on other networks. The 810 is already light years ahead of that deal.

    2) As far as I have been told by Microsoft, T-Mobile and Nokia, device support will continue through July of 2014 for ALL LUMIA MODELS. Until I hear otherwise, I will put my faith in the companies that have released timely updates so far. Right now my wife has an 8X on 1532.20.20005.502... It works about the same as my 1532.5951.1250.1004 firmware that I am running. There's no storage check feature, there's no SD card to copy app data to. So, to wrap up this point, have you been told that T-Mobile will NOT be issuing an update to the 810? If so, then please file away... If not, please don't make false statements to a very important rating system.

    3) All firmware needs to go through carrier testing to make sure that the software doesn't make the network vulnerable or compromise the functionality of the phone. Can you imagine if T-Mo rolls out an update and the 810 stops having a functioning data connection? People would be stark raving mad! That said, we do have to give T-Mobile time to process the updates that we want. From start to finish, the entire approval process will take 4-6 weeks. Looking at the update schedule, Portico came a month after the 920... 1308 was a failed update due to connectivity problems and 1314 would have been due out this week or next with the same time frame as the 920 getting it. I'm hopeful that T-Mobile doesn't have 1314 in testing and is going straight to 1318 with WiFi calling, like the Lumia 521 has.

    Hopefully we will see the updates in a timely fashion, but complaining to an important government agency will not solve the problem of being upset about purchasing a device that is EOL'd. It's too bad that there isn't better communications about the device from T-Mobile's end, but they are more concerned with new clients and turning a profit than they are about keeping a few thousand 810 users happy.
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  3. dave0538's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waazzupppp View Post
    I've written this first paragraph like 4 times now. I'm trying not to be negative about posts like this anymore, but everyone just needs to relax. The 810 may not be for sale at T-Mobile stores anymore, but that doesn't mean that they are dropping support for the device. Lets take a quick look at your points and take them one at a time.

    1) The 810 is still supported by T-Mobile as is the Radar 4G, Lumia 710 and even the HD7... Please don't mistake "not for sale" with "not supported". That said, we will have to see what support is offered going forward. When you look at this in comparison, the AT&T HTC Titan which was replaced by the Titan II in about the same time frame. Nobody sued or threatened to over that one. The Titan received one update from AT&T before it was shelved. We couldn't even edit APN's for use on other networks. The 810 is already light years ahead of that deal.

    2) As far as I have been told by Microsoft, T-Mobile and Nokia, device support will continue through July of 2014 for ALL LUMIA MODELS. Until I hear otherwise, I will put my faith in the companies that have released timely updates so far. Right now my wife has an 8X on 1532.20.20005.502... It works about the same as my 1532.5951.1250.1004 firmware that I am running. There's no storage check feature, there's no SD card to copy app data to. So, to wrap up this point, have you been told that T-Mobile will NOT be issuing an update to the 810? If so, then please file away... If not, please don't make false statements to a very important rating system.

    3) All firmware needs to go through carrier testing to make sure that the software doesn't make the network vulnerable or compromise the functionality of the phone. Can you imagine if T-Mo rolls out an update and the 810 stops having a functioning data connection? People would be stark raving mad! That said, we do have to give T-Mobile time to process the updates that we want. From start to finish, the entire approval process will take 4-6 weeks. Looking at the update schedule, Portico came a month after the 920... 1308 was a failed update due to connectivity problems and 1314 would have been due out this week or next with the same time frame as the 920 getting it. I'm hopeful that T-Mobile doesn't have 1314 in testing and is going straight to 1318 with WiFi calling, like the Lumia 521 has.

    Hopefully we will see the updates in a timely fashion, but complaining to an important government agency will not solve the problem of being upset about purchasing a device that is EOL'd. It's too bad that there isn't better communications about the device from T-Mobile's end, but they are more concerned with new clients and turning a profit than they are about keeping a few thousand 810 users happy.
    With respects to point 1 and 2 I've contacted nokia and tmobile numerous times and all I've been getting is basically the run around when contacting tmobile. The responses im getting from nokia is that T-Mobile has to put in some kinda of request for the updates and thus so far tmobile hasn't done such. And whenever I talk to tmobile whether its manager supervisors all I am getting is that they can't do anything, or the device is no longer and they try to get me to buy a 521 or some other phone such as an iphone. Also when talking to any T-Mobile personal the basic answer I am getting is that they don't push software or any software updates for our phone, it is up to nokia... which is bull****. thus is why I filed a complaint. I don't know if you like getting screwed over or get the run around but after a month or so of trying and not getting a reasonable response I contacted the BBB, maybe they will find the answer I am looking for that others are looking for as well. So if you want to stand around doing nothing, your welcome too. But if there are others like me who has tried and tried to get answer but is not getting anywhere, it will be in our best interest to file a complaint.

    It's too bad that there isn't better communications about the device from T-Mobile's end, but they are more concerned with new clients and turning a profit than they are about keeping a few thousand 810 users happy.
    And it is this reason why we shouldn't be ignored. Maybe we are a few thousand but we are still customers and we have pay money for there services and I think they need to own up to there bad ways. No matter what number 1 250 3000 5000 we are all customer and we are means for them to make money. They should take everyone serious, especially if they want to continue to make money and remain profitable. I don't know about you but I work hard for my money, and when I go buy a product id hope it would be supported and have answers throughout my term using such product.
  4. waazzupppp's Avatar
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    #4  
    I have no idea who you talked to at Nokia that said that T-Mobile has to put in a request, but the info you received is completely incorrect... As a company, Nokia will develop software for any potential fix that Microsoft issues that is a security patch or enhancement. Usually these are small patches and enable a feature that is coming. That said, Nokia pushes the updates to the devices once they are approved by the carrier. This is the process that you might remember from Nokia stopping the 1308 update on the 920's, not AT&T...

    I've said this in multiple threads already... Be patient and let T-Mobile get a 13xx update through testing. One of the updates will be coming at some point - and according to everyone involved - the 810 will continue to be supported through July 2014. If we make it to July without seeing something, then start the process. Anything before then is just plain too fast.
  5. b3rni3703's Avatar
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    #5  
    ok so this may be a noob question but what happens after July 2014? Do we ditch this device? lol
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  6. ssapre's Avatar
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by waazzupppp View Post
    One of the updates will be coming at some point - and according to everyone involved - the 810 will continue to be supported through July 2014. If we make it to July without seeing something, then start the process. Anything before then is just plain too fast.
    I respect your views, but if we see what they did with WP7 updates for Lumia 710 and HTC / Samsung phones...they are not sure if it can be delivered before Jul-2014. As far as I tried to check with them, they never even said that they would be helping on it, rather they always said that its pending Nokia...Nokia said its pending TMO.

    Additionally.... whether 810 will support WiFi calling, TMO never said that they are even trying to push / check anything on it. All they said is a 'No'.
  7. Angry_Mushroom's Avatar
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    #7  
    That is a pretty drastic step here. There are a couple of posts in the other thread that claim we'll be getting updates soon. Personally I'll will be waiting until after GDR2 before I take up my pitchfork and torch. One step at a time. I'm frustrated as well, but patience is key here.
  8. CyclingNut's Avatar
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    #8  
    I hope this thread is a joke because if you actually submitted a complaint to the BBB than I feel really sorry for you. Grow a pair and move on..IT'S JUST A PHONE. Besides, now you have a good excuse to get the 925 next month.
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  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by CyclingNut View Post
    I hope this thread is a joke because if you actually submitted a complaint to the BBB than I feel really sorry for you. Grow a pair and move on..IT'S JUST A PHONE. Besides, now you have a good excuse to get the 925 next month.
    When someone spends hundreds of dollars on a phone, it is totally reasonable to expect it to work properly. Having to reset a phone every two months because a software glitch fills it with unclearable data is not a "properly working" scenario. When Microsoft, Nokia, and T-Mobile collectively give their hundreds-of-dollars-paying customers the run around and consistently avoid answering the question of whether or not they will fix their product, I believe it is reasonable to get upset. So, maybe you should avoid insulting those people who are trying to get their broken phones fixed. You might have lots of $$$ to just go out and buy a Lumia 925, but I bet most Lumia 810 owners do not.
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  10. Dr_8820's Avatar
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    #10  
    OP, you should tweet them...as you can see, some people are such delusional fans of a company that they will accept anything just to keep telling themselves that the company they chose and blindly support doesn't do no wrong...Apple users post whenever a software update messes up their phone, and Apple promptly fixes them...but Nokia phones work great out the box and us lowly people should just be quiet and wait....
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  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by dave0538 View Post
    hello everyone, I've been a long time viewer of wpcentral and a long time user of windows phone since it came out and even before that with the windows mobile platform. And after getting extremely tired of tmobile's bull about the lumia 810 and how they mistreat us 810 owners I've filed a BBB report to help remedy the situation.

    I've filed a complaint on the behalf of T-Mobile stiffing wp8 customers basically the 810 buyers with a phone that was EOL 5 months after its release and not warning the general public about such decision. I've also incorporated the severed updates for the phone, seeing how it has missed numerous nokia updates after the 1250 and we still don't have the Microsoft nokia fix for the storage issue.

    So in short I've come here to urge every 810 owner to go to the Better Business Bureau website United States and Canada BBB Consumer and Business Reviews, Reports, Ratings, Complaints and Accredited Business Listings and file a complaint.

    And in my settlement agreement I've opt for BBB to make T-Mobile either;

    1. Offer owners of the 810 a way to upgrade to a device that is being supported by T-Mobile with current payment made on the phone to be transferred to a new phone and have the 810 returned to them and abolish any remaining debt.

    2. Make it so that they remedy the situation and give us the updates we desperately need, and support the phones cycle of 2 years as Microsoft said.

    3. Make it so that nokia has permission and the right to make and distribute software for the 810 with NO INVOLVEMENT of T-Mobile.

    Thank you for your time. I hope many 810 users who are frustrated and felt robbed by T-Mobile will the right thing by filing a complaint.
    More power to you! I think this is a great idea. Multiple Lumia 810 users have brought up the storage glitch issue with T-Mobile, but nobody can get a confirmation concerning whether they will fix this, or whether or not they are even considering fixing this. So, while our phones are malfunctioning, we can only HOPE that they will fix it. This is not good business practice. While ATT has updated their Lumia 920 twice since January, T-Mobile has not provided any updates. Just because the Lumia 810 did not sell as well as other phones is not an excuse to provide bad support.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.8820 View Post
    OP, you should tweet them...as you can see, some people are such delusional fans of a company that they will accept anything just to keep telling themselves that the company they chose and blindly support doesn't do no wrong...Apple users post whenever a software update messes up their phone, and Apple promptly fixes them...but Nokia phones work great out the box and us lowly people should just be quiet and wait....
    Mr. 8820, I could not have said it better myself! Apple responds to their users very quickly, and as a friend of mine who owns an iPhone said after he heard about my Lumia 810 woes, "The iPhone just works." iPhone users can say that, because when there's a phone-crippling glitch in iOS, Apple actually fixes it instead of making its customers wait over half a year to get it fixed. I have NEVER been an Apple fan, but to my shock, this customer support debacle that Microsoft, Nokia, and T-Mobile are perpetuating has caused me to actually wish I owned an iPhone. All I want is a phone that works and is fixed in a timely manner!
  13. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by CyclingNut View Post
    I hope this thread is a joke because if you actually submitted a complaint to the BBB than I feel really sorry for you. Grow a pair and move on..IT'S JUST A PHONE. Besides, now you have a good excuse to get the 925 next month.
    See, it is a comment like this that just rubs folks who work hard for their cash the wrong way. FixWindowsPhone addressed it so eloquently that the only other thing I will add to it is that this why OEMs make money off folks who choose to think like this by playing the hardware game...you know, the one where they put out incremental refreshes to fix problems they created and expect users to drop what they're doing to find cash to always buy the latest device.

    OP, I created a thread where 810 users can upload their screenshots of the large "Other" folder as a way to show the need for T-Mobile to put out the firmware that allows us to use the storage check. You should add yours to that thread as well, if you're "Other" folder is really large too.

    OP, also you can add the 8X to that complaint because on T-Mobile it is all but EOL'ed. Maybe the more people you have the more traction you can get.

    My take now is a bit different. It is ultimately a MSFT issue in that the Other storage problem across the OS needs addressing. We are stuck in a holding pattern, fighting for temporary fixes like Storage check. I grabbed a 8X as well yesterday on the cheap and it had 130MB of "Other" at the start of a factory reset. I've barely set it up like my 810 and my "Other" is already 1.60GB. I've heard 8X users complain about the Other was well. If MSFT doesn't address this in an update, it is them we need to go after first. If MSFT does and T-Mobile doesn't put out the firmware to address this because they're not supporting the 810, then we blast them. But until then, pressure by other means may be best...we need to start process for the extreme complaints but no full blast until we have more proof of negligence.

    As for the Apple comments, remember they make 1 phone and have control over hardware and software directly. They negotiated with the carriers directly because of that control. For WP, T-Mobile negotiated with Nokia directly, not with MSFT. Big difference because it is one less bureaucratic step to go through. So of course, turn around bug fixes are quicker.
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  14. robert_in_la's Avatar
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    #14  
    With all respect to the OP views and opinions the BBB doesn't have any power to enforce the business in question to do anything. They simply will try and help consumers resolve situations if they can. Best of luck and I hope you resolve it to your satisfaction.
  15. robert_in_la's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by FixWindowsPhone View Post
    When someone spends hundreds of dollars on a phone, it is totally reasonable to expect it to work properly. Having to reset a phone every two months because a software glitch fills it with unclearable data is not a "properly working" scenario. When Microsoft, Nokia, and T-Mobile collectively give their hundreds-of-dollars-paying customers the run around and consistently avoid answering the question of whether or not they will fix their product, I believe it is reasonable to get upset. So, maybe you should avoid insulting those people who are trying to get their broken phones fixed. You might have lots of $$$ to just go out and buy a Lumia 925, but I bet most Lumia 810 owners do not.
    Point taken however the BBB will more than likely turn out to be a fruitless path if the objective is to get them to help all buyers of the 810 as opposed to the individual filing the complaint with them. The only real course of action with any real teeth would be to file a civil complaint (i.e.: lawsuit or class action suit)... which I personally wouldn't bother with and if anything the OP should just take their business someplace else.
  16. WPenvy's Avatar
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    #16  
    I'm sorry, but when i read the first post in this thread i LOL'd.... Felt like i had to say that. Good luck with your endeavor
  17. CyclingNut's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by msftismia View Post
    see, it is a comment like this that just rubs folks who work hard for their cash the wrong way. Fixwindowsphone addressed it so eloquently that the only other thing i will add to it is that this why oems make money off folks who choose to think like this by playing the hardware game...you know, the one where they put out incremental refreshes to fix problems they created and expect users to drop what they're doing to find cash to always buy the latest device.
    .

    LOL. Again I say, IT'S JUST A PHONE, and a mid tier one at best. It's absolutely mind boggling to see people get this worked up about such minuscule problems. Time to get some perspective in your lives and redirect some of your misguided energy into useful endeavors. I appreciate the sheer ridiculousness of this thread though just for the laughs.
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  18. Dr_8820's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by CyclingNut View Post
    LOL. Again I say, IT'S JUST A PHONE, and a mid tier one at best. It's absolutely mind boggling to see people get this worked up about such minuscule problems. Time to get some perspective in your lives and redirect some of your misguided energy into useful endeavors. I appreciate the sheer ridiculousness of this thread though just for the laughs.
    ....and yet your misguided energy has led you to reply to a ridiculous thread...TWICE!....maybe you should find some useful endeavors to engage in instead of replying to threads that obviously don't concern you. Thank you and have a nice day.
  19. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by CyclingNut View Post
    LOL. Again I say, IT'S JUST A PHONE, and a mid tier one at best. It's absolutely mind boggling to see people get this worked up about such minuscule problems. Time to get some perspective in your lives and redirect some of your misguided energy into useful endeavors. I appreciate the sheer ridiculousness of this thread though just for the laughs.
    Again, spoken like a person who has all the answers but yet knows nothing.

    Yes, great genius, we know it is a mid tier phone, but thanks for reminding us that. The point is the OP felt like he needed to go the BBB route to express displeasure of what has happened. I can understand the frustration because it is the principle of the thing that matters here. While others here may disagree with the tatic, at least we haven't tried to $%&# on the OP. I don't know how the OP paid for that 810, but I can understand the frustration. It is still an OS related issue to me, but that's my take on it.

    Instead of trying to berate people, why don't you put your wallet where your enlightenment is and go buy some 925s for people like the OP who you decided to $%&#! all over with your arrogance?

    Really, your insensitive response was unnecessary.
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  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.8820 View Post
    ....and yet your misguided energy has led you to reply to a ridiculous thread...TWICE!....maybe you should find some useful endeavors to engage in instead of replying to threads that obviously don't concern you. Thank you and have a nice day.
    There's an easy way to deal with arrogant trolls like CyclingNut: Click on his/her name to access his/her profile, and then click on "Add to ignore list", and then POOF!!! PROBLEM SOLVED! No need to waste more time and energy on his/her useless feedback.

    Time to move on and go back to the original discussion in this thread: ways that we can effectively voice our opinion on the need to fix our multi-hundred dollar phone.
  21. b23h's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by waazzupppp View Post
    1) The 810 is still supported by T-Mobile as is the Radar 4G, Lumia 710 and even the HD7... Please don't mistake "not for sale" with "not supported". That said, we will have to see what support is offered going forward. When you look at this in comparison, the AT&T HTC Titan which was replaced by the Titan II in about the same time frame. Nobody sued or threatened to over that one. The Titan received one update from AT&T before it was shelved. We couldn't even edit APN's for use on other networks. The 810 is already light years ahead of that deal.

    2) As far as I have been told by Microsoft, T-Mobile and Nokia, device support will continue through July of 2014 for ALL LUMIA MODELS.

    Hopefully we will see the updates in a timely fashion, but complaining to an important government agency will not solve the problem of being upset about purchasing a device that is EOL'd. It's too bad that there isn't better communications about the device from T-Mobile's end, but they are more concerned with new clients and turning a profit than they are about keeping a few thousand 810 users happy.
    waazzupppp!

    "The 810 is still supported by T-Mobile as is the Radar 4G, Lumia 710 and even the HD7" That's not the strongest argument in the world. From what I can see at the T-Mobile site the last 710 update was 6/22/12 to Mango. Last Radar update was 2/15/13 (but not to 7.8), and the last HTC HD 7 update was 3/19/12 to Mango. I have the HTC HD 7 and as far as APN's are concerned, I do not have access to the MMS settings and therefore so far have been unable to get MMS on net 10.

    If you read the forums you will find all sorts of people still working T-Mobile's nerve on whether or not those phones will get 7.8. Whether or not anybody thinks it's wise or the best course of action, quite a few people seem to be expecting to get firmware and OS updates for their phones. Personally I think a lot of those issues are reasonable and that the phone companies have been exploitive and uncaring in their attitude towards their customers.

    Your second point. I know you've told us that the 810 will get an update soon and while I appreciate what you've said, but at the end of the day you are another anonymous poster. You may have great connections to the cell phone industry and I am not saying that you are incorrect or that I doubt your word. However it is also reasonable to have a "lets wait and see approach" to what you've said. If T-Mobile themselves were to make announcements, that still is no guarantee but it would be at least official.

    "they are more concerned with new clients and turning a profit than they are about keeping a few thousand 810 users happy" In one sense I know that you don't work for T-Mobile or you've gone rouge because no company should ever explicitly say what you've just said there. Those "few thousand 810" owners are T-Mobile customers, or were and at the end of the day that is the issue. You want customers happy because they will stay your customers. You f*ck your customers and they are either bad talking you to their friends, or they leave.

    As far as a BBB complaint I don't know enough about it to say if it is going to work. But if Dave feels like doing that, that is fine and I will defer to the BBB to handle the issue as appropriate. But let me say that I expect that there will be moves to address the problem of carriers not updating phones. I think this is an issue that is not going away and will continue to be a thorn in the carriers side. I expect that there may be a move to legislate a response. Dave is not alone in being upset, not only with the 810 or any other Windows Phones, but also any number of Android phones.

    My 810 is gone, turned back in today. I'm back on my HTC HD 7. Only after owning the 810 a month and a half I was getting close to 500 mb free. Yes, I understand the "need" for patience. I also understand the frustration and anger.
  22. LeLee092's Avatar
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    #22  
    oh great..so my HTC 8x got stolen..and I just finished buying an 810..its in the mail
    was a mistake?
    what the hell is EOL?
    is the other storage issue really that big of an issue? like would it thwart me from being able to use my phone at all? or more of an annoyance and contsantly having to delete app(which i did on my HTC anyways, idk if it had the same other storage issue?
    will the 810 (or the HTC 8x for that matter) be getting the the GRD2,3 and Amber updates?
    now im worried D:
  23. #23  
    The Nokia 710 no longer is getting support. Nokia and T-Mobile both said it. It will not be getting 7.8. This 18 month or two year window is something that should be improved on.

    I think that the OP is in the right and should try to find a remedy to fix the issue with updates by T-Mobile. They are already done this to other devices. Especially now that all Tmobile customers who are not on the Classic Plan have to pay full price for their phones.
  24. Robert Novak1's Avatar
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    #24  
    rdubmu
    use seveneighter to update any wp 7 device to 7.8. I did it for both a LG C900 and a Lumia 900 WP tools and zune are required

    LeLee092
    E.O.L stands for End of Lifecycle
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  25. wiseguywood's Avatar
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    #25  
    LeLee,

    The storage issue does affect some phones, especially earlier made ones. Personally, I haven't had any issues that keep me from ever being able to use my phone. 810 SHOULD get updates, but until I see it, it is subject to debate.

    The 810 is (for me) a great mid range phone. I hope yours will work as well as mine does for me.

    EOL is what they refer to as end of life, i.e. they are no longer ordering them from Nokia, but yes they are for sale from dealers and even T-Mobile stores as long as they have them. It doesn't mean they won't support them.
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    By gasanpride in forum Nokia Lumia 810
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    Last Post: 11-26-2012, 01:17 PM

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