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  1. alpinestars1z's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by zack251 View Post
    I don't understand why most manufacturers except Samsung opted for nonremovable batteries for their flagship products. The only reason I think is to force everyone to buy a new phone once the battery unable to hold charge anymore. I hope Lumia 1020 successor will have a removable battery.
    I think it's easier to make the phone thinner.
    Phone History (hopefully in order): Samsung SGH-D407 > AT&T (HTC) Tilt > Sony Ericsson W580 > Blackberry Curve 8900 > Sony Ericsson C901 > HTC Touch Pro 2 > Blackberry 9700 > iPhone 3GS > Motorola Defy > Blackberry 9650 > iPhone 4 > Nokia E71 > Dell Venue Pro > HTC Titan > HTC Titan II > Lumia 900 + Samsung Galaxy Exhibit > Nokia Lumia 920 + Nokia Lumia 521 + Motorola RAZR V3xx
    Last updated: 05/13/2013
  2. ejb222's Avatar
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    #27  
    Dont think we will see a 1020 successor until 2015 if at all. But I would fully expect that camera to be head and shoulders beyond the 1020...even the 808. The 1020 successor better destroy all doubt that it is the best camera in the industry. I don't want to see any comparisons to legacy hardware.

    I'm on a 920 and want to wait until April to upgrade. I secretly hope there is a revision to the 1020...maybe quad core and sd card slot. But I doubt it will happen. the phone was released in June/July right?

    The other question that has yet to be answered is how will WP8.1 play with legacy hardware? Will improve performance or require faster hardware and more ram? If WP8.1 bogs down legacy hardware, I dont know that I would opt to buy a 1020. This is the reason I'm waiting until April.
    -Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die.

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  3. Chris_Kez's Avatar
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    #28  
    I don't see a true successor coming any time soon, let alone for MWC. The 1020 (like the 808 before it) is a niche device. That is even more obvious now that the 1520 is here and they've dialed back the capabilities. The 1020 should hold up well for quite some time to come (just as the 808 has- there are lots of people still using these), but sure- it would be nice to see the whole package updated. An improved lens/sensor stack that was even more accurate, yet somehow thinner and lighter; improved hardware and software that allowed for more impressive image processing, faster capture and reduced battery consumption. I don't know how anyone can watch a demonstration of the iPhone 5S burst mode (more like continuous capture) and not be impressed by that software and that processor: 10 images per second, full resolution, for as long as you hold the button. I don't care if WP8 is optimized and doesn't "need" cutting edge hardware to run perfectly well; you cannot tell me that the 1020 would not benefit from cutting-edge hardware. Sadly, I don't see it happening for a long time, if at all.
  4. buxz777's Avatar
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    #29  
    can you please explain to me why the 1020 is a niche device?? if you had said the s4 zoom was a niche device then I could understand but the 1020 is a normal smartphone with a great camera , its light , has a lovely design , the camera has a hump but its not intrusive jeese even the 925 has a slight camera hump , I just don't get why people call the 1020 a niche device??

    I wouldn't expect too see a 1020 upgrade soon it will have about a year cycle maybe a bit more , the ''black'' update will help improve the 1020 more and other manufactuers of phones are still way of matching the 1020 camera hardware we have seen sonys efforts with the z1 , samsungs efforts with the s4 zoom , iphones efforts for this year , lg's new flagship with ois , I cant see any other phones coming out to push the 1020 so nokia have some time to go back to the drawing board and improve an already great phone

    I would expect the 920 successor to sport the same 20mp camera as the 1520 with slight zoom and oversampling and then the 1020 upgrade about this time next year with updated specs like

    snapdragon 800 cpu and supporting gpu
    bigger sensor and improved lens system
    improved ois
    same screen tech as from 1520 (improved sunlight readability)
    1080p screen with all nokia goodies
    micro sd card with 32gb and 64gb editions for certain markets
    micro usb in / mhl connection
    slightly bigger battery / removable battery
    improved rich recording
    4k video recording

    to be honest apart from upping the sensor size and improving the lens system , putting a better cpu/gpu in , adding a micro sd support is there really much they can do to improve the nokia 1020 it really is an awesome device and I think apart from software side of things like separate volume controls and other things Microsoft should be improving then surely nokia can only make it a better camera phone ;-)
    Last edited by buxz777; 11-04-2013 at 01:10 PM.
  5. Moiz Mian's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by buxz777 View Post
    can you please explain to me why the 1020 is a niche device?? if you had said the s4 zoom was a niche device then I could understand but the 1020 is a normal smartphone with a great camera , its light , has a lovely design , the camera has a hump but its not intrusive jeese even the 925 has a slight camera hump , I just don't get why people call the 1020 a niche device??

    I wouldn't expect too see a 1020 upgrade soon it will have about a year cycle maybe a bit more , the ''black'' update will help improve the 1020 more and other manufactuers of phones are still way of matching the 1020 camera hardware we have seen sonys efforts with the z1 , samsungs efforts with the s4 zoom , iphones efforts for this year , lg's new flagship with ois , I cant see any other phones coming out to push the 1020 so nokia have some time to go back to the drawing board and improve an already great phone

    I would expect the 920 successor to sport the same 20mp camera as the 1520 with slight zoom and oversampling and then the 1020 upgrade about this time next year with updated specs like

    snapdragon 800 cpu and supporting gpu
    bigger sensor and improved lens system
    improved ois
    same screen tech as from 1520 (improved sunlight readability)
    1080p screen with all nokia goodies
    micro sd card with 32gb and 64gb editions for certain markets
    micro usb in / mhl connection
    slightly bigger battery / removable battery
    improved rich recording
    4k video recording

    to be honest apart from upping the sensor size and improving the lens system , putting a better cpu/gpu in , adding a micro sd support is there really much they can do to improve the nokia 1020 it really is an awesome device and I think apart from software side of things like separate volume controls and other things Microsoft should be improving then surely nokia can only make it a better camera phone ;-)
    This all looks fine considering the 929 leaked with all the same specs. Except for 4k video recording. The 1520 does not include 4K recording, so I doubt any Nokia flagship will have this until either 8.1 or next generation :(
  6. vlad0's Avatar
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    #31  
    Its not about the OS... WP runs fine on dual core/1gb ram

    In this case its all about the camera, and a Snap 800 SoC would help the camera performance greatly.

    The 1020 is a good test bed for the next phone, by the time we get to it the software optimization would be much, much better + stronger hardware .. I am looking forward to it.

    By then my 808 will be ready for a replacement :)
    snowmutt likes this.
  7. zack251's Avatar
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    #32  
    It is good to have a removable battery if your phone hangs or freezes. Also if you don't use the phone for quite sometime, it is a good practice to pull out the battery so that the battery will not be swollen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma Rio View Post
    I don't have a L1020, but I do have an N8 (which also has an unremovable battery). I have never had problems with the battery or ever had any reasons to remove/change it.
    BUT.. just by removing a few screws you can easily pull it out, it's not a big deal you know. At the end you can just go to a service center and get it replaced.
  8. x7sage7x's Avatar
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    #33  
    The build of the 1020 is perfect. A dual core running at 1.5, with 2 gig of ram is more than enough. Unless you are a lazy user, and never restart your phone or press the back button to the home screen, you will have no problem. If you choose to be a poor operator, and leave 500 apps open, and try taking a picture on top of that in pro cam, you are just asking for it. WP8 doesn't need a quad core like garbage android phones. Just be a smart user, restart your phone when you need, and try to run one app at a time.
  9. vlad0's Avatar
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    #34  
    This Lag when taking photos is the main issue.. I am sure that they can speed things up on the software side, but a faster SoC would be much better to begin with.
  10. Moiz Mian's Avatar
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    #35  
    You guys talking up the 2GB of ram realize that 1GB is dedicated to the camera right? The phone is using only 1GB for normal OS use, just like the rest of the 8xx/9xx series IN FACT, the 1020 actually performs worse on benchmarks than the 920 or the 820. The processor is not designed for a 41mp camera, and as a matter of fact, neither is the snapdragon 800. It only supports 20mp. The fact is that the 1020 can easily use upgraded specs. There is a lot of untapped potential and I hope the 1030 can deliever :D
  11. Tech friend's Avatar
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    #36  
    Reportedly Nokia invested in a company some month ago that develops array cameras for smartphones.

    As I see it, this will be the next big step in smartphone photography - and a worthy 808 and 1020 successor technology.


    Read also: Pelican Imaging's 16-lens array camera coming to smartphones next year
    Thanked by:
  12. lippidp's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Moiz Mian View Post
    You guys talking up the 2GB of ram realize that 1GB is dedicated to the camera right? The phone is using only 1GB for normal OS use, just like the rest of the 8xx/9xx series IN FACT, the 1020 actually performs worse on benchmarks than the 920 or the 820. The processor is not designed for a 41mp camera, and as a matter of fact, neither is the snapdragon 800. It only supports 20mp. The fact is that the 1020 can easily use upgraded specs. There is a lot of untapped potential and I hope the 1030 can deliever :D
    Are you sure about the RAM or just guessing? No version of Windows to date dedicates RAM to a specific function, but you want me to believe that this is the case in a minor update to a consumer OS? Unlikely.
  13. chmun77's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech friend View Post
    I do hope that you are wrong, chmun77.

    I still want a phone with a larger sensor.
    Well, if you don't mind a thicker and larger phone, why not? However, look at the latest 1520. With such big size of a phone, it can easily fit a big sensor just like 1020. But instead, they are going for the middle class Pureview like 925. This trend tells us that Nokia will not be investing so much time with a niche sensor like 1020 anymore. From what I see, Windows Phone is very hard to pick itself up against other much more matured OSes out there. Hence, it will need another platform or different device form factors to bring Windows Phone to a higher level. And that will be tablets. MS and Nokia will focus more on their integration and apps between the devices, along with the back end ecosystem.

    Frankly speaking, we already know how good Pureview is with all the non-stop promotions and adverts from Nokia. Is getting stale already. Is time for MS - Nokia to pick up some steam and push the products to a highly level, but not via the camera way.

    Just my 2cents.
  14. vlad0's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech friend View Post
    Reportedly Nokia invested in a company some month ago that develops array cameras for smartphones.

    As I see it, this will be the next big step in smartphone photography - and a worthy 808 and 1020 successor technology.


    Read also: Pelican Imaging's 16-lens array camera coming to smartphones next year
    I think they are still kind of far off mass production, but yes... along with their work on this

    Nokia patent shows “Graphene” based imaging sensor already being worked on!!

    it might be the next "leap" in imaging :)

    I am just talking about what they can do with what's currently available.. they can improve on the 1020 for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moiz Mian View Post
    The processor is not designed for a 41mp camera, and as a matter of fact, neither is the snapdragon 800. It only supports 20mp.
    True, but the overhead won't be as much and that can help with the speed of the camera. I am guessing that having better video processing might be able to help with the oversampling.. as it stands its not as good as the original pureview device.

    Obviously they worked closely with Qualcomm to make that old s4 deal with the demands of the 41mpix sensor and oversampling, which means that they can do the same with the 800 and achieve better results.

    I still don't know why they didn't use the system from the 808 which incorporates a separate imaging chip inside the sensor which deals with most of the processing. I mean.. the 808 runs on some sort of ancient 512 RAM and operating the camera feels faster than the 1020 for the most part.. it makes absolutely no sense.

    I think both of their previous cameraphones used Broadcom chips. I just feel that this camera kind of requires its own custom hardware to fully exploit the capabilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by lippidp View Post
    Are you sure about the RAM or just guessing? No version of Windows to date dedicates RAM to a specific function, but you want me to believe that this is the case in a minor update to a consumer OS? Unlikely.
    I've seen that being said around the web and I am really not sure where it started.. yes, the camera might need more RAM to run, but non of it specifically relocated for that one single purpose, at all times. I don't even know if that is possible..
  15. Moiz Mian's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by lippidp View Post
    Are you sure about the RAM or just guessing? No version of Windows to date dedicates RAM to a specific function, but you want me to believe that this is the case in a minor update to a consumer OS? Unlikely.
    Haha ok thanks for bringing that up. It's probably just rumor, but the 1020 does run the OS slower than the 9xx and 8xx. Just try the sunspider browser test. The 9xx/8xx score about 900ms. The 1020 scores about 1100ms. The only difference is the camera and the ram. Soo I dunno.
  16. Moiz Mian's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by vlad0 View Post
    I think they are still kind of far off mass production, but yes... along with their work on this

    Nokia patent shows “Graphene” based imaging sensor already being worked on!!

    it might be the next "leap" in imaging :)

    I am just talking about what they can do with what's currently available.. they can improve on the 1020 for sure.



    True, but the overhead won't be as much and that can help with the speed of the camera. I am guessing that having better video processing might be able to help with the oversampling.. as it stands its not as good as the original pureview device.

    Obviously they worked closely with Qualcomm to make that old s4 deal with the demands of the 41mpix sensor and oversampling, which means that they can do the same with the 800 and achieve better results.

    I still don't know why they didn't use the system from the 808 which incorporates a separate imaging chip inside the sensor which deals with most of the processing. I mean.. the 808 runs on some sort of ancient 512 RAM and operating the camera feels faster than the 1020 for the most part.. it makes absolutely no sense.

    I think both of their previous cameraphones used Broadcom chips. I just feel that this camera kind of requires its own custom hardware to fully exploit the capabilities.


    I've seen that being said around the web and I am really not sure where it started.. yes, the camera might need more RAM to run, but non of it specifically relocated for that one single purpose, at all times. I don't even know if that is possible..
    I agree, I think a dedicated imaging processor would be the best solution. My theory is that windows phone doesn't support that, which is why it wasn't used. But yea, using a snapdragon 800 will definitely work better than the S4. Any idea what the max camera capability is with the Tegra 4? They are getting LTE soon, and I remember they had a roadmap and were planning on working with windows phone at some point.
  17. AngryNil's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Muessig View Post
    No lags here. It might take longer to take a picture than the Z1 but that's not taking 2 pictures and using oversampling.
    So, you're admitting it's slower and could do with better internals, which is what the OP is asking for. I agree with Moiz above, I don't see why Nokia didn't go for a DSP.
  18. maverick786us's Avatar
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       #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by alpinestars1z View Post
    I think it's easier to make the phone thinner.
    I think 9 inch is enough. Thinner devices don't have a good speaker quality. I am still waiting for Nokia to deliver a device that will have dual speakers, and the speakers as loud as Nokia N95
    (Gaming Rig)
    CPU............................Intel E8400 @ 3.6Ghz
    Mobo....................................ASUS P5Q Pro
    RAM.............................4GB G.Skill DDR2 800
    HDD................................WD 6400AAKS HDD
    GPU............................MSI Cyclone GTX 460
    PSU..............................Corsair 650TX 650W
    Case..............................................CM 690
    Display...................Dell SP2208WFP (22 inch)
    O.S.........................Windows 7 Ultimatum 64
  19. maverick786us's Avatar
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       #44  
    Is 1020 an 808 successor? There is a lot of debate on that. Some people say it is an 808 successor, some people say, its not. Its just an enhancement over 808 by making it thinner, implementing it in windows and implementing OIS. We can't forget the fact that 808 has a bigger sensor than 1020.

    Similarly if Nokia releases a device which has the same camera capabilities as 1020, but upgraded hardware like
    1) Quad Core Snapdragon 800 processor
    2) Bigger 5-6 inch screen with 1080P display

    I am lest bothered about thickness. 9 inch is sufficient, as I don't want the speaker / music quality to be compromised because of thickness, just like the way iPhone 5 has compromised music quality over iPhone 4s by making it thin.
    (Gaming Rig)
    CPU............................Intel E8400 @ 3.6Ghz
    Mobo....................................ASUS P5Q Pro
    RAM.............................4GB G.Skill DDR2 800
    HDD................................WD 6400AAKS HDD
    GPU............................MSI Cyclone GTX 460
    PSU..............................Corsair 650TX 650W
    Case..............................................CM 690
    Display...................Dell SP2208WFP (22 inch)
    O.S.........................Windows 7 Ultimatum 64
  20. Huime's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by snowmutt View Post
    A removable battery is one of those "Better to have it and not need it rather then need it and not have it" features. All it takes is for a battery to go bad 2 weeks after the warrenty expires for consumers to realize how important that little tid-bit is....
    Dude, 2 weeks is your return period. Nokia standard warranty last for 6-12mo depending on where it is sold. And if it needs a fix, it is certainly replaceable. What you are asking is a hot swap, which by today's standard, a lightweight power bank is way more practical.
  21. lippidp's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Huime View Post
    Dude, 2 weeks is your return period. Nokia standard warranty last for 6-12mo depending on where it is sold. And if it needs a fix, it is certainly replaceable. What you are asking is a hot swap, which by today's standard, a lightweight power bank is way more practical.
    This is just FYI. "Hot swap" means replacing the battery while the computer remains powered on with no interruption whatsoever. In this case we would call it a "user-replaceable battery."
  22. vlad0's Avatar
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    #47  
    I blame the carriers for the smaller sensor in the 1020.. they are the ones who pushed Nokia to make the 41Mpix deal thinner, which is why we have a weaker xenon flash, a smaller senor, and compromised optics.. by that I mean there is more softness towards the edge of the frame compared to the 808. With the current imaging tech, you simply need more room for better imaging.

    I am really hoping that Microsoft can take a different approach to this and not care what the carriers want. Just go Nexus on them and release the camera flagship unlocked/no subsidies .. I will buy it directly from the Microsoft Store.

    Just give me

    1" sensor (don't care about the mpix count, but I have to admit that they've done a brilliant job with that massive pixel density in the 808/1020)
    a fat xenon flash
    good optics
    3000 mah user replaceable battery
    4.5 incher with very thin bazel
    SD card slot


    I really don't care about the size of the phone.. it would be a device for true enthusiasts, kind of like 808.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moiz Mian View Post
    I agree, I think a dedicated imaging processor would be the best solution. My theory is that windows phone doesn't support that, which is why it wasn't used. But yea, using a snapdragon 800 will definitely work better than the S4. Any idea what the max camera capability is with the Tegra 4? They are getting LTE soon, and I remember they had a roadmap and were planning on working with windows phone at some point.
    Like most things in the software realm.. its not that it doesn't support it, its the fact that someone needs to write the code needed for that support. So, I doubt that windows NT can't support a dedicated DSP, there might be some latency issues, but again.. given enough time they are very likely to make it work.

    In this case I think it was all about "time to market" so they went with a modified S4 instead of what they did with the 808.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huime View Post
    a lightweight power bank is way more practical.
    I disagree. I've tried both and I have to say that being able to swap batteries on the go is much better.. especially if you are out for a photo shoot. I tried the external battery thing once .. its really awkward to take pictures with a cable hanging of the phone.

    Here is my mini photo kit .. plenty of batteries to play with. And overall I think I am ready to wait this one out and see what's next :)

    1X Nokia 808 PureView
    3X original back covers, all colors. Good change of pace when you get bored.
    3X original BV-4D batteries. Very good for camping, traveling, or emergency power needs.
    2X original BL-4D batteries. These are from the N8 but they work fine. Total.. that's about a week worth of shooting
    1X aftermarket battery charger
    1X Jobi tripod
    1X Nokia tripod mount
    1X Nokia case
    1X Canon neck strap, tied to the case so that I can carry it around my neck.
    3X original Nokia wrist straps
    3X 67mm filters (UV, PL, FLD) I usually just hold them in front of the lens.



    Quote Originally Posted by maverick786us View Post
    Is 1020 an 808 successor?
    Its all relative, but in terms of imaging.. I don't see it as such. Things are looking better with the expected Lumia Black algorithms and RAW support, but even then I am still not sold on it. The smaller sensor and the edge softness bug me..
    MAERSK likes this.
  23. #48  
    Given that the 1020 was going to be called the 909 pretty much right until launch, we can safely call the 1020 the successor. Whether you deem its internals to be good enough or needing updating is an entirely different matter.
    John20212 likes this.
  24. chobits's Avatar
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by maverick786us View Post
    Its the same generation. the screen size is same, the resolution is same. The same boring dual core processor, which within an year or 2 will start showing its age. I would rather consider 1520 an upgrade over 920.
    Actually it's pretty simple
    If you love photography, you'll get 1020 no matter how old ... wait ... i don't see why 1020 needs quadcore
    Just like the iphone, does it need quadcore?
    Nope, the OS is already splendid.

    Reasons to upgrade to 1020:
    1. camera
    2. camera
    3. the camera again
    4. omg it's the camera
    5. 41mp vs 9mp
    6. Optical image stabilizer, you'll come to appreciate this technology

    So yeah, the only reason people want 1020 is the camera
    End of story
  25. sdc1's Avatar
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    #50  
    It's interesting to see the Android mindset being dragged in and applied to a Windows Phone. The 1020 works just fine, I don't care if it doesn't have the latest quad core processor or a 1080p display. It runs smoothly and looks great and for me that's enough. The fact that I have a smartphone in my pocket with a 41 megapixel camera is incredible. The people wishing for quad core processors etc will obviously never be happy unless they have the best specced phone available. It's all nonsense.
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