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  1. Isror's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by zhelfrich View Post
    i agree with you on how the reaction will be but i think the adoption to wp8 will be bigger with the metro theme carried across with windows 8 and windows 8 rt and i think it will start to really entice people as a viable option.

    the biggest fear most regular consumers have is the investment most people who buy apps and other things on their phone want to be able to keep it like if i spend $200 on ios apps then switch to android you lose that investment so most people dont want to jump into windows phone and watch it go the way of WebOS and have nothing to show for it so it makes most people skiddish but now seeing the cross platform unifying of metro i think it will make it firmiliar and give people some security in windows phone 8 that it will stick around and i think it has the potential to really be a rival force for apple and the android platforms
    I know a lot of people who complain about the "lack of apps" and when I ask them "Give me 10 apps you NEED on a daily basis that DON'T include a talking hippo" their reaction is one of being stunned, and they can't/won't answer.
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  2. Daniel0418's Avatar
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    #27  
    Maybe HTC could have done something to help this a long, but this is the same story with Verizon every time. HTC Thunderbolt delayed, Droid Bionic delayed, Galaxy Nexus delayed. This is the same thing I have been dealing with for years and it is Verizon every time. This is ridiculous that they botched another launch. It is really frustrating and despite their great LTE network, I am just about ready to leave Verizon in March. Verizon's decision making and silly games are precisely the reason the Nexus 4 doesn't have LTE. They botched Windows Phone before, and they are botching it again. I really can't stand it.
  3. tomatoes11's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnailUK View Post
    A non-removable battery never holds the iPhone back, and i bet the iPhone with the lowest storage sells far far more units than the higher storage versions.

    Just look at the drop tests of the Galaxy S3. The cost of removable storage and removable battery, is a flimsy phone.

    To be honest, i think HTC did a brilliant job. Its a beautiful phone, at a reasonable price, with a very hand friendly shape, and stuff like the Beats amp and super fast camera will appeal to a large number of people.
    You mean that video where they were dragging a GS3 along the road going pretty fast and there was hardly any damage on the phone?
  4. tomatoes11's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lean4838 View Post
    I like Samsung (my first smartphone was a Galaxy Mini :D ). But I'm not really sure if they would are a good example of a company with good "R&D". I maybe wrong, can you care to elaborate more on what good R&D Samsung has done?

    On topic, I agree with spiff_p239 that to the tech geek, the HTC 8X is underwhelming. However, to the average consumer I also think that this phone looks great (with the correct pricing of course)! I showed the HTC phones to my cousin and he likes them better than the Lumia actually. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder :D

    Also I'm really confused about the pricing of the 8X in the US. It's more expensive than the 920, which actually has a LOT more to offer!

    BTW, I'm not biased to the 920, I'm getting an 8X :D
    Just off the top of my head.

    First to release super powerful A15 chip sets or chip sets in general

    Super efficient manufacturing processes with great yields like their 32nm high k metal gate process for mobile devices.

    Highest resolution 10 inch display. One AMOLED and one IPS LCD(the one in the Nexus 10)

    flexible displays

    A lot of stuff like this. At least twice a year
    Samsung's new storage chip will bring thinner, faster smartphones | News | TechRadar

    Super thin phones(something Nokia and HTC struggle to do with good battery life, although the HTC One X is okay at 8.9mm)

    Great optics with APS-C sensors. They make some pretty advanced focal length lenses for their mirrorless cameras. Sony NEX lenses are not nearly as sharp or compact. Sony has way better sensors though so that evens it out or puts them slightly ahead.

    Heck, they even made tanks at one point.
    Lean4838 likes this.
  5. 1414H77's Avatar
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    #30  
    Yes, they dropped the ball, but not as to design, but as to being able actually get inventory in the stores to actually sell. It is their launch day at Verizon and the stores have not even gotten shipments.
    jasqid and cp2_4eva like this.
  6. zhelfrich's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Isror View Post
    I know a lot of people who complain about the "lack of apps" and when I ask them "Give me 10 apps you NEED on a daily basis that DON'T include a talking hippo" their reaction is one of being stunned, and they can't/won't answer.
    o i agree with you that most people use these apps out of novelty ill admit even some of my banking apps can just be replaced by a mobile website but im just saying even if they dont need it they are thinking i spent money already why do i have to spend it again i was commenting more on having to invest in a new ecosystem and less on the fact of the amount of apps because i think the amount of apps isnt as big of an impact to most people i mean yea ios has the biggest app store but does anyone take the time to actually browse it or do you just search for what you need or browse the front page of featured because i know thats what i do.

    my point was really just a lot of people are scared to start investing in a new platform and risk it going down the drain when they could just choose from ios or android but microsoft has really made the core os so functional it differentiates itself and makes it worth it at least in my opionion especially when you toss on bonuses of office its a big plus for me the only draw back is no file system access that is really disappointing
  7. spiff_p239's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze04 View Post
    Maybe HTC could have done something to help this a long, but this is the same story with Verizon every time. HTC Thunderbolt delayed, Droid Bionic delayed, Galaxy Nexus delayed. This is the same thing I have been dealing with for years and it is Verizon every time. This is ridiculous that they botched another launch. It is really frustrating and despite their great LTE network, I am just about ready to leave Verizon in March. Verizon's decision making and silly games are precisely the reason the Nexus 4 doesn't have LTE. They botched Windows Phone before, and they are botching it again. I really can't stand it.
    Ever stop to think that maybe new technology issues played a small part in the rolling out of those devices? There were numerous reports that Thunderbolts were blowing through batteries in 5-6 hours and my Droid Bionic wasted 75% of its battery in 3 hours while sitting in my pocket on a few occasions.

    With regards to the Nexus 4, AT&T and Verizon use different frequencies for their LTE and most of Europe doesn't even have it yet. They did the smartest thing they could and produced a quality handset at a VERY attractive price that will run on the vast majority of networks. While Verizon may be the largest carrier in the United States, and yes it's disappointing that we'll likely never see the Nexus 4 on it, the rest of the world has a much larger number of subscribers.

    Go ahead and leave Verizon if you want to, nobody's stopping you. As long as the company you go to has reliable service in your area, you can get exactly what you want.
  8. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lean4838 View Post
    I like Samsung (my first smartphone was a Galaxy Mini :D ). But I'm not really sure if they would are a good example of a company with good "R&D". I maybe wrong, can you care to elaborate more on what good R&D Samsung has done?
    Samsung did not invent OLED technology, but they perfected it and are the only ones currently capable of mass producing displays using that technology. Samsung invests more into improving OLED technology than any other company. That involves a lot of basic physics and materials research. If a device has an AMOLED screen, chances are very high it's from Samsung.

    Tomatoes11 suggested being first to market with an A15 core is a result of Samsung's R&D efforts, but I disagree (I would credit ARM technologies instead). However, I would say their Exynos SoCs represent an in-house engineering and development effort worth mentioning. Their SoC's are usually better than the competitions. Somewhat more research related is Samsung's semiconductor manufacturing capability, particularly the improvement of process technology. Samsung isn't the only player in that field, but they are doing very well. They are currently the second largest semiconductor manufacturer in the world (after Intel). I believe they are also the leading developer of NAND chips (used in flash memory and SSD's).

    They also invented things like the transparent LCD.

    I'll concede that Samsung's research efforts are more about evolving technology than revolutionizing it, but just developing the technology required to produce everything they make necessitates a larger research budget than most other companies have in total.
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  9. cp2_4eva's Avatar
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       #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    Samsung did not invent OLED technology, but they perfected it and are the only ones currently capable of mass producing displays using that technology. Samsung invests more into improving OLED technology than any other company. That involves a lot of basic physics and materials research. If a device has an AMOLED screen, chances are very high it's from Samsung.

    Tomatoes11 suggested being first to market with an A15 core is a result of Samsung's R&D efforts, but I disagree (I would credit ARM technologies instead). However, I would say their Exynos SoCs represent an in-house engineering and development effort worth mentioning. Their SoC's are usually better than the competitions. Somewhat more research related is Samsung's semiconductor manufacturing capability, particularly the improvement of process technology. Samsung isn't the only player in that field, but they are doing very well. They are currently the second largest semiconductor manufacturer in the world (after Intel). I believe they are also the leading developer of NAND chips (used in flash memory and SSD's).

    They also invented things like the transparent LCD.

    I'll concede that Samsung's research efforts are more about evolving technology than revolutionizing it, but just developing the technology required to produce everything they make necessitates a larger research budget than most other companies have in total.
    I can always count on you to educate people here and kick some knowledge. Good post. As if I didn't have respect for Samsung, I have a tad bit more now taking it that your post is in fact true.

    Too bad they passed ATT up on this round of WP8 devices. They still have the ATIV S on their site. Is that thing even coming out? Not the Odyssey.
  10. nicooke's Avatar
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    #35  
    8X owner here.

    I agree with the point a few of you have made - it is a gorgeous phone. It isn't top spec but all the quad core in my One X did was make ithot and drain the battery - they aren't reeally needed until people right apps to take advantageof them.

    What is really getting my proverbial goat is WP8 - I love it and hate it at the same time in a way. It is fluid, well thought out, and integrates web services nicely....

    ... apart form Skype that is a preview. And Nokia Drive which was coming to all phones - no wait, just the maps. Then there are the random reboots, the email bugs and so forth.

    MS, not HTC, are going to need to acknowledge the problems and announce their plans to deal with them rather than just saying "wait, it'll come". HTC did a fine job with the 8X, and I want to love it I really do, but time will tell if the OS doesn't just evolve too slowly.
  11. Smg-Uk's Avatar
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    #36  
    The main faults for the 8x, not enough storage, not en expandable storage slot, and no removable battery
    Same with the lumia's / Nexus 4 / iPhone etc but look at how popular they are. HTC are just following the trend and despite what a lot of people on forums like this might think about the 8X it doesn't really matter as long as the general public like it as that is where the money is.

    It might not be a big hit in America but over here in the UK etc its selling out its a lot cheaper than the Lumia and its widely available.

    I don't see where the ball has been dropped ?

    +It has probably the best audio of any WP device maybe of most phones out at the moment.

    +It has a camera which is around the best camera's on any mainstream device at the moment.

    +Best FFC on any phone.

    +It has one of the best screens and certainly the highest screen in terms of PPI (not including the new 1080p phones).

    +It has one of the best designs I have ever seen.

    +It has fantastic signal & call quality.

    The only area I think HTC could have done better is battery but then the Lumia 920 doesn't seem to do any better so its probably more a WP8 issue at the moment.
  12. romeze's Avatar
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    #37  
    I just got my black 8x this morning and I have to say I am amazed. Build quality, sound and call quality alongside overall looks. I do not think by any means HTC dropped the ball. I have to say my friend brought over his l920 and I was jealous until... My 8x came in. I was pretty bummed I could not get the 920 on Verizon, but after testing out the both of them I surprisingly prefer the 8x. That being said, 920 does have better built in apps and better camera (slightly) in our comparison photos, but if both were made available to me on Verizon I would still go with the 8x. Black slick case with stand, high contrast mode look like Darth Vader had a love child with a Ferrari.
  13. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by cp2_4eva View Post
    Your thoughts? Is this an HTC FailX or is there still some saving grace in the 8x? And how soon do you think HTC releases an improved version of the 8x?
    I think the 8X will find more than enough buyers to earn HTC a profit, and I think that would justify calling it a success. I find that the "launch debacle" comments are completely blown out of proportion, for Nokia as well as HTC. Two months from now nobody will remember all the "hubub" this caused. In my view the launch related issues are irrelevant.

    The 8X has its place in the market. It certainly has a few unique selling points (particularly its design). It will find enough buyers to make HTC's efforts worthwhile.

    Long term however, I don't see a lot of good things coming HTC's way.

    All the big players (Apple, Microsoft, Nokia) will squeeze whatever licensing royalties they can out of HTC, further eroding HTC's ever shrinking margins.

    HTC also lacks the ability to negotiate better deals with their suppliers like Apple or Nokia can, which puts even more pressure on their margins. When it comes to supply chain management Samsung is the undisputed leader, as they can source almost every single component in-house. This issue is already seriously hurting HTC's margins and it will get worse going forward.

    Smartphone hardware will get increasingly commoditized. At some point competition will mainly come down to price. I don't see how HTC can compete once the industry reaches that point. They just aren't set up as a company to survive in that type of environment, and I expect them to fade into obscurity around then. Apple will also be in for a world of hurt (for Apple it's a "the higher they climb the harder they fall" kind of thing).
    Last edited by a5cent; 11-15-2012 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Spelling
    Lean4838 likes this.
  14. romeze's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by romeze View Post
    I just got my black 8x this morning and I have to say I am amazed. Build quality, sound and call quality alongside overall looks. I do not think by any means HTC dropped the ball. I have to say my friend brought over his l920 and I was jealous until... My 8x came in. I was pretty bummed I could not get the 920 on Verizon, but after testing out the both of them I surprisingly prefer the 8x. That being said, 920 does have better built in apps and better camera (slightly) in our comparison photos, but if both were made available to me on Verizon I would still go with the 8x. Black slick case with stand, high contrast mode look like Darth Vader had a love child with a Ferrari.
    Just a quick follow up, music sounds incredible! thought beats audio was a gimmick, really is not, built in speaker and headphones are phenomenal. Only negative thing I have experienced is lousy 4 apps HTC provides, wish there was a way to download Nokia's.
  15. jdballard's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by romeze View Post
    Black slick case with stand, high contrast mode look like Darth Vader had a love child with a Ferrari.
    Awesome description.
  16. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by cp2_4eva View Post
    As if I didn't have respect for Samsung, I have a tad bit more now taking it that your post is in fact true.
    I think you can look up almost all of what I've mentioned on the internet. It's just a matter of putting in the time. ;)
  17. cp2_4eva's Avatar
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       #42  
    I think my initial thoughts about 8x being looked over probably stems from the lack of airplay that wpcentral is giving it. It would seem that everywhere I turned, the 920, 820, and 822 was being mentioned. I'm glad that you guys enjoy your 8x phones.

    a5cent you seem to have some pretty good insight to the direction of HTC, but do you really think they will fall into obscurity like that? I don't think a company like HTC will fall of the map like that though.

    Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
  18. cp2_4eva's Avatar
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       #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by romeze View Post
    I just got my black 8x this morning and I have to say I am amazed. Build quality, sound and call quality alongside overall looks. I do not think by any means HTC dropped the ball. I have to say my friend brought over his l920 and I was jealous until... My 8x came in. I was pretty bummed I could not get the 920 on Verizon, but after testing out the both of them I surprisingly prefer the 8x. That being said, 920 does have better built in apps and better camera (slightly) in our comparison photos, but if both were made available to me on Verizon I would still go with the 8x. Black slick case with stand, high contrast mode look like Darth Vader had a love child with a Ferrari.
    pics! Wanna see pics

    Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
  19. Smg-Uk's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by cp2_4eva View Post
    I think my initial thoughts about 8x being looked over probably stems from the lack of airplay that wpcentral is giving it. It would seem that everywhere I turned, the 920, 820, and 822 was being mentioned.
    I have already suggested that they change the name to Nokia Central.

    Daniel Rubino the "Editor-in-chief" replied with:

    How about you go to ****? Worthless commentor...
    So much for professionalism.
  20. Daniel0418's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by spiff_p239 View Post
    Ever stop to think that maybe new technology issues played a small part in the rolling out of those devices? There were numerous reports that Thunderbolts were blowing through batteries in 5-6 hours and my Droid Bionic wasted 75% of its battery in 3 hours while sitting in my pocket on a few occasions.

    With regards to the Nexus 4, AT&T and Verizon use different frequencies for their LTE and most of Europe doesn't even have it yet. They did the smartest thing they could and produced a quality handset at a VERY attractive price that will run on the vast majority of networks. While Verizon may be the largest carrier in the United States, and yes it's disappointing that we'll likely never see the Nexus 4 on it, the rest of the world has a much larger number of subscribers.

    Go ahead and leave Verizon if you want to, nobody's stopping you. As long as the company you go to has reliable service in your area, you can get exactly what you want.
    The Nexus line will never be on Verizon again. Google won't play the game again because of Verizon. Unless Verizon opens up LTE, there is no benefit in Google creating a 3G only Nexus device. So mark my words, Verizon will NEVER see Nexus phone again. On top of that, no it is not hardware issues, because these devices are coming out on other carriers just fine. 8X is on multiple carriers in multiple countries, the Thunderbolt was an EVO 4G with an LTE radio, it got messed up because of Verizon. The Galaxy Nexus was released unlocked and buyable more than a month before Verizon, the phone worked fine, but Verizon wasn't done "testing" AKA ruining it. Verizon is late with the 8X, they are late with the 822, they were late with announcing both phones, they ruined the HTC One S on Verizon, they never came out with the Galaxy S 2, the Galaxy S 3 was extremely late compared to other carriers. The Galaxy Note never came to Verizon, the Nexus One never made it to Verizon when it was supposed to, the Galaxy Note II was super late to Verizon and they put that horrid logo on the home button. The Ativ will be for sale and available on multiple carriers long before Verizon. Everything Verizon dips their fingers into gets ruined, delayed, or buggy. All of these devices work perfectly on other carriers, then they come out on Verizon much later and are MORE buggy or have WORSE battery life. It just doesn't make sense. You can defend them all you want but they are the ones making the mistakes.
  21. romeze's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by cp2_4eva View Post
    pics! Wanna see pics

    Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
    Sorry for the quality, taken from old Trophy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails wp_002379.jpg  
  22. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by cp2_4eva View Post
    a5cent you seem to have some pretty good insight to the direction of HTC, but do you really think they will fall into obscurity like that? I don't think a company like HTC will fall of the map like that though.
    I still haven't found my crystal ball, so take that prediction, like all predictions, with a grain of salt ;) I can give you this to consider though:

    1)
    The fact that HTC is big doesn't protect them from failure. In fact, many companies that were much larger than HTC just a decade ago have become almost irrelevant or disappeared completely since then (Eastman Kodak, Sun Microsystems, Yahoo and many more).

    2)
    Even if size did protect HTC from failure, it wouldn't be of much help as HTC is actually rather small. With a market capitalization of only $7 billion, HTC is still worth $3 billion less than Nokia... even though Nokia's stock value was pummeled and shriveled to almost nothing during the last two years (a twentieth of what they once were). Both HTC and Nokia are tiny compared to the towering giants Samsung and Apple.

    3)
    HTC has been in steady decline for a long time now, but as far as I can tell, HTC still doesn't have any turnaround strategy. They've traditionally attempted to compete on specs and that is what they continue to do. They continue to release new devices and hope one of them becomes a hit. Unfortunately, that approach hasn't served them well as of late (they have no chance of out-marketing Apple or Samsung), and the time in which competing primarily on hardware specs has any chance of working is coming to an end. Smartphone commoditization is approaching fast. Anyone can buy the same parts HTC does and assemble them... most manufacturers can get the same parts cheaper than HTC can... you tell me what HTC's sales proposition might be at that point, when competition starts to revolve mainly around price. What will it be?

    I'm not predicting HTC will disappear completely, but if they don't drastically shift strategies soon I doubt they will be relevant five years from now.

    Of course, none of that has anything to do with the 8X which remains a good device regardless.
  23. cgk
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smg-Uk View Post
    Same with the lumia's / Nexus 4 / iPhone etc but look at how popular they are.
    Of course there are over 200 reasons (all marked with the queen's head) why someone might buy the Nexus and be happy with the compromise - I'm sitting here looking at my other half's new nexus and it is a beast of a phone for the money.
  24. Davidkoh's Avatar
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    #49  
    For me the 8X was disqualified since they:

    - HTC, like Apple, didn't care to include proper support for LTE (meaning they support too few frequencies so it cannot be used in Sweden)
    - The camera performs worse in low light conditions, if I ever take a picture 9 out of 10 will be at a restaurant with friends/family or outside somewhere (but since I work during the day it will be evening when that happen)

    Then there were the benefit of the Nokia Maps/Nokia Drive. The one thing that the 8X had going for it was the amplifier, but since I heard nothing about the DACs in any of the units I suspect they are both built in with the Snapdragon S4 which means crap, so the amp won't add much.
  25. TaliZorah's Avatar
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    #50  
    Personally I was all about the 8X when I first started to decide what WP8 on Verizon to get. The 822? What that inferior phone? I thought. I just blindly went with 8X love for a few days and then I decided to check out the 822 specs.

    The screen has less ppi and is AMOLED. I am more a fan of LCD2 than AMOLED so I am still thinking 8X.

    Then I noticed the battery is the same size (1800mAh) and I thought well, AMOLED and less ppi means it will use less juce to run the screen so now I am thinking thats a point for the 822.

    I went on to check out processor, ram, wireless charging... etc. and they were identical. Both have the same processor and ram. So that was a tie.

    Then I dug deeper and found that the 822 had expandable memory and of course gets Nokia apps. Now I am starting to lean 822.

    Then I look at pictures of the phone. The 822 looks ugly and the 8X looks sexy! Also the 8X has a larger HD resolution!. Back leaning towards the 8X.

    Then I starting thinking about what was more practical and the 822 just wins this category.

    Now that I have an 822 in my hand, the pictures do NOT do it justice, its a very solid, good looking phone - even the branding isnt as ugly as it looks in pictures. Completely happy with my choice. I don't think I will miss out on the 8X.
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