[brmiller1976]

I guess the question for AT&T subscribers now is, "Is the 8gb HTC 8X better than a 32gb Lumia 920+charging pad? Or is the 16gb HTC 8X worth double?"

And the question for Nokia is "can we survive by selling below cost?"

[JayTBennett]

Please stay on topic guys rather than taking cheap shots at each other. brmiller has a high oppinion of the 8X which is a fair one, and the 920 doesn't guarantee blur free shots as anyone who's used it will confirm (the first thing I did with the preview version I got to go hands-on with was see just how good OIS is, and it's a huge improvement but not instantly perfect).

This is an excellent thread so far with valid opinions and I'd hate to have to go all hyper-moderator on it

[ncxcstud]

Did Nokia sell below cost or is AT&T subsidizing the cost of each phone after already purchasing them from Nokia?

[keizka]

And the question for Nokia is "can we survive by selling below cost?"

You may wonder why they have it exclusive only on AT&T though... oh wait, perhaps AT&T is actually paying for them? Just like iPhone some years ago?

Naah, can't be true...

[brmiller1976]

You may wonder why they have it exclusive only on AT&T though... oh wait, perhaps AT&T is actually paying for them? Just like iPhone some years ago?

Naah, can't be true...

Could be. But on the flip side, the reason carriers are pushing WP because of the high cost of subsidizing iPhones (which sell well). I cannot imagine AT&T is willing to subsidize 920s and lots of freebies plus have a big ad campaign, unless Nokia is selling them for well under what Apple charges.

[socialcarpet]

I think the 8x is superior becaaauuussse it is the best I can get on Verizon! Lol

No but seriously, camera isn't a big deal to me as long as it works during the day and is better than my trophy (impossible to be worse). I mean the phones do everything else almost the same. Deciding factor for me is how it feels in the hand.

I'm with ya. Camera isn't that important to be either. No matter what you chose, 8X or 920, you're guaranteed to get a better camera than any of the current WP 7.5 devices. My Lumia 900 camera is average at best so either one would be a nice upgrade to what I'm used to.

[Winterfang]

I disagree SonicCarpet. I believe the Titan 2 camera is superior.

[alpinestars1z]

I disagree SonicCarpet. I believe the Titan 2 camera is superior.

Superior to the 8X and the 920? What?

[Reeves]

I went with the HTC 8X in the end. I'm sure the Lumia 920 is a great phone, it just seems it isn't the phone for me. Why?

1. I listen to music more than I take photos. While I couldn't care less about Beats and it will be switched off as soon as I can turn on the phone (I'd even like to cover up the logo tbh..), I can tell you that the built in amp is a big draw.

2. Size and weight. I have an HTC Titan at the moment and I love it, but one of the places I listen to music is at the gym. To everyone saying that people who think the Lumia 920 is heavy should go to the gym, well I do and I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't ever USE the Lumia 920 while working out. Having that thing in your pocket bouncing around while you run etc, just isn't good. The Titan is about the limit for that and I'm happy that the 8X will be significantly lighter. (No I don't want a separate device.)

3. I don't have a car, so Nokia Drive isn't very useful to me. Nor are many of the other Nokia exlusive apps, including music.

Yes I wish the 8X had more storage, yes I'm sure there will be more Nokia timed exlusive apps that I will want, yes the camera will be better.

The Lumia 920 isn't best in class at everything, and for a lot of people some of the issues (fairly raised in the reviews) are actually quite important. This isn't a paper specs race. You can't yet convince me of the value of Wireless charging no more than you can for 3D screens.

They're both "best" phones, just to different people.

I certainly agree with your last sentence, but I find your rationalization of the 8X choice to be curious.

I go to the gym and use treadmills and such as well. I previously had an HTC Arrive which was the EXACT same weight of the Lumia 920. Having it "bounce around" wasn't a problem because I either wore baggy shorts with thick, loose pockets OR I simply put it in one of the exercise machine shelves/cupholders/whatever have you to sit while I worked out. I wouldn't put ANY phone in my shorts if I were wearing tighter, form-fitting ones.

Plenty of people at my gym use iPhones or iPods in Otterbox or other "heavy" cases. It's never been a problem from what I can see.

I don't get the 'built-in amp" being an advantage either. The effective range on any modern smartphone's audio is more than enough for pretty much any decent pair of headphones. Making it louder doesn't make the music "sound better", but the high-frequency fatigue your ears will experience will most certainly be worse. You're just asking for the onset of tinnitus however many months down the road. Once you get it, there's no getting rid of that low frequency ringing.

This isn't to big up the Lumia 920 and to belittle the 8X. There are certainly use case scenarios where each excels. I just happened to find these two "reasons" a little odd id all.

[Winning Guy]

And the question for Nokia is "can we survive by selling below cost?"

I don't think so.

Their pricing is likely a result of a very sweet deal tied to AT&T exclusivity. It's becoming apparent why it was a smart move, even if it does upset a few customers.

Regardless... the the customer the question isn't about Nokia's financials. It's about what phone should they buy with the money they have.

If you're on AT&T, it's VERY DIFFICULT to not choose the Lumia 920. This is true even if you have a slight preference towards the 8X.

[Winning Guy]

Could be. But on the flip side, the reason carriers are pushing WP because of the high cost of subsidizing iPhones (which sell well). I cannot imagine AT&T is willing to subsidize 920s and lots of freebies plus have a big ad campaign, unless Nokia is selling them for well under what Apple charges.

I don't think this is a long term deal for AT&T with Nokia. I doubt we'll see subsidies like this once WP has a significant enough marketshare.

The subsidy is likely AT&T's power move in order to create enough users for WP, and at the same time weakening Apple's stranglehold on them. They probably figured that the Lumia 920 was the best device to do that with. It also helps that Nokia is a company struggling to get a foothold in the US, so that gives AT&T leverage over them.

[Winning Guy]

I disagree SonicCarpet. I believe the Titan 2 camera is superior.

While I've had bad experiences with HTC, their Titan camera was pretty good. Then when they came out with the update... umm.. .I mean the Titan II, it got even better.

[Winning Guy]

I certainly agree with your last sentence, but I find your rationalization of the 8X choice to be curious.

I go to the gym and use treadmills and such as well. I previously had an HTC Arrive which was the EXACT same weight of the Lumia 920. Having it "bounce around" wasn't a problem because I either wore baggy shorts with thick, loose pockets OR I simply put it in one of the exercise machine shelves/cupholders/whatever have you to sit while I worked out. I wouldn't put ANY phone in my shorts if I were wearing tighter, form-fitting ones.

Plenty of people at my gym use iPhones or iPods in Otterbox or other "heavy" cases. It's never been a problem from what I can see.

I don't get the 'built-in amp" being an advantage either. The effective range on any modern smartphone's audio is more than enough for pretty much any decent pair of headphones. Making it louder doesn't make the music "sound better", but the high-frequency fatigue your ears will experience will most certainly be worse. You're just asking for the onset of tinnitus however many months down the road. Once you get it, there's no getting rid of that low frequency ringing.

This isn't to big up the Lumia 920 and to belittle the 8X. There are certainly use case scenarios where each excels. I just happened to find these two "reasons" a little odd id all.

People who really like to turn up their music probably already know about the damage they're doing to their ears.

So if they're going to damage it, it might as well be with nice clear audio at higher dB instead of a slight distortion when you go high.

[brmiller1976]

Headphones aren't the only way to play music -- there are also speakers and hi-fi systems. Music out of phones on speakers -- bluetooth or hard-wired -- often sounds awful. The 8X is one of the first phones to provide a high-quality high-volume experience.

Music is an everyday part of my life. Photos aren't. Give me a clearer, richer, music experience, please.

Unlimited 4G audio streaming on high-bitrate XBox Music with clear, rich sound > Tinny smartphone music with no bass, no treble, and distortion on a capped data plan

[brmiller1976]

I previously had an HTC Arrive which was the EXACT same weight of the Lumia 920.

Frankly, that says a lot. The Arrive was a brick... the Hummer of smartphones.

[Reeves]

I went with the HTC 8X in the end. I'm sure the Lumia 920 is a great phone, it just seems it isn't the phone for me. Why?

1. I listen to music more than I take photos. While I couldn't care less about Beats and it will be switched off as soon as I can turn on the phone (I'd even like to cover up the logo tbh..), I can tell you that the built in amp is a big draw.

2. Size and weight. I have an HTC Titan at the moment and I love it, but one of the places I listen to music is at the gym. To everyone saying that people who think the Lumia 920 is heavy should go to the gym, well I do and I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't ever USE the Lumia 920 while working out. Having that thing in your pocket bouncing around while you run etc, just isn't good. The Titan is about the limit for that and I'm happy that the 8X will be significantly lighter. (No I don't want a separate device.)

3. I don't have a car, so Nokia Drive isn't very useful to me. Nor are many of the other Nokia exlusive apps, including music.

Yes I wish the 8X had more storage, yes I'm sure there will be more Nokia timed exlusive apps that I will want, yes the camera will be better.

The Lumia 920 isn't best in class at everything, and for a lot of people some of the issues (fairly raised in the reviews) are actually quite important. This isn't a paper specs race. You can't yet convince me of the value of Wireless charging no more than you can for 3D screens.

They're both "best" phones, just to different people.

People who really like to turn up their music probably already know about the damage they're doing to their ears.

So if they're going to damage it, it might as well be with nice clear audio at higher dB instead of a slight distortion when you go high.

Who says the Nokia Lumia line has "tinny" or "unclear" audio. I have a Lumia 900 right now. I'm not finding that to be the case at all. "Beats Audio" is not some audiophile brand. Far from it. Almost the opposite, really.

I remember the Arrive had "SRS sound enhancement" that put a similar-to-Beats Audio EQ curve on music. I turned it off after 30 minutes and never turned it on again.

No disrespect to Dr. Dre. The man can mix a record with the best of them. I'm not a fan.

My wife seems to really like the Beats Audio in her Evo 4G LTE, tho.

[Reeves]

Headphones aren't the only way to play music -- there are also speakers and hi-fi systems. Music out of phones on speakers -- bluetooth or hard-wired -- often sounds awful. The 8X is one of the first phones to provide a high-quality high-volume experience.

Music is an everyday part of my life. Photos aren't. Give me a clearer, richer, music experience, please.

Unlimited 4G audio streaming on high-bitrate XBox Music with clear, rich sound > Tinny smartphone music with no bass, no treble, and distortion on a capped data plan

Aren't you just taking it on faith that "Beats Audio" is somehow "clearer" or "richer" than the Lumia line?

Since you're throwing carrier data plans into the mix, I guess this is a moot point as you cannot have the Lumia 920 anyway. But it's funny that people demand camera demonstrations left and right to prove which device has the best imager, but usually just throw quotes from the marketing sheet back and forth when it comes to audio.

[DungMasterFang]

It does take noisy, blurry photos. I saw them with my own eyes.

Please do me the favor and tell me what your eyes see here and what your ears hear. Tell me what you think about the audio and visual differences. Which is better in each category?

Lumia 920:

[YT]NR=1&v=pHccGqba1_M&feature=endscreen[/YT]

8x:

[YT]v=8LpLI00UFQQ&list=UUzBDWY1snLBV8ykf_3mw8Eg&index=4&feature=plcp[/YT]

[Winterfang]

Video looks better, Audio sounds about the same. Those are video not pictures.

Here's a 920 picture.

http://s1.ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/15212773.html

tell if is not blurry and noisy.

[Reeves]

Video looks better, Audio sounds about the same. Those are video not pictures.

Here's a 920 picture.

http://s1.ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/15212773.html

tell if is not blurry and noisy.

Audio SOUNDS THE SAME? Surely you jest.

The first thing I hear on the Lumia video is ambient street noise, and it's at a low natural level as if you were there.

The first thing I hear on 8X video is HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. It's pervasive, and the ensuing narration is comparatively tinny and compressed.

As for the pictures, there are plenty of good-looking natural light pictures of both cameras. There aren't plenty of good-looking low light pictures of both, however. And I'm not just talking night time either.

[DungMasterFang]

Video looks better, Audio sounds about the same. Those are video not pictures.

Here's a 920 picture.

http://s1.ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/15212773.html

tell if is not blurry and noisy.

It is blurry and noisy like every low light picture taken with even the best DSLR.

It was just a test for your eyes and ears. You didn't specify which video looks better, but I'm going to assume you meant the Lumia 920 so your eyes pass. Your ears on the other hand... if you can't hear the difference in audio I suggest you buy better headphones or go see a doctor.

[Smg-Uk]

Sounds funny actually!! Lumia 920 doesn't beat other in features alone. It is about user experience where it smokes everything else out there.

Hardware front : Awesome Display, PureView Camera with OIS (Has been proven to be better than both OneX and 8X in all conditions), Rich-recoring setup, Supersensitive touchscreen. great built and premium feel, Wireless charging

Software front: Cool lenses, Great Nokia Drive apps, City Lens, Nokia Reading and many more exclusive Nokia Apps, Great customer support (software updates and more)

User experience is better on the Nokia even though its no different because its WP hmmm yeah right....

Where has it been "proven" that the camera is better in all conditions? Oh that's right it hasn't infact the opposite has been proven.

if you can't hear the difference in audio I suggest you buy better headphones or go see a doctor.

I suggest a lot of people here pull their head out of Nokia's arse.

[Winterfang]

bla bla bla if you disagree with me you are wrong!!

That's what your reply sounded like.

[DungMasterFang]

I suggest a lot of people here pull their head out of Nokia's arse.

You seriously can't hear the difference? Those expensive HAAC mics are really going to waste with you guys... Well not really since you aren't going to buy the phone, but atleast admit when something is clearly better.

[DungMasterFang]

That's what your reply sounded like.

"I'm just going to answer your questions by some nonsense to avoid admitting the Lumia is better at something"

That's what your reply sounded like.