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  1. eugie's Avatar
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       #1  
    Windows 8 on smartphone, tablet ,pc, apps run in all hardware ...
  2. z33dev33l's Avatar
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    #2  
    Yeah, we've known of this for months
  3. eugie's Avatar
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       #3  
    I think it's great that Microsoft wants to be able to run any app in all three ecosystems....i don't give up my wp...😊😊😊
  4. crash1989's Avatar
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    #4  
    As a developer I want that more than anything. It will change the experience a lot since I could basically develop one app (with tweaks for diff OSes) for Win Phone, Win 8 , XBox and any devices that support Modern UI. Exciting times. I also want MSFT to develop Office touch which seems to be in development as the rumors suggest. Seems that they want to get rid of the desktop
    Laura Knotek and xandros9 like this.
  5. Pacus1x's Avatar
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    #5  
    A more tight ecosystem is more than required, maybe is one of the reasons that stop people buying RT tablets because investing so much on your Windows Phone and none of that you see on your RT tablet, no good that's for sure. And the app count would go up in an unique system than a separate ecosystem, so finally will stop people saying WP o RT "no appzzz no gamezzz"
  6. anony_mouse's Avatar
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by crash1989 View Post
    Seems that they want to get rid of the desktop
    I think that could be the worst business decision of all time (worse even than IBM circa 1982).
    MS marketshare in smart phones: <5%
    MS marketshare in tablets: <5%
    MS marketshare in laptops/desktops: >90%

    I think I can say with some confidence that Microsoft will not get rid of the desktop.
    a5cent and Cleavitt76 like this.
  7. fwaits's Avatar
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    #7  
    MS wants to get it down to Windows (WP/RT/Xbox) and Windows Pro (Full Win w/Desktop + Modern UI) that way you have 1 store to rule them all, develop once, access all (With exception of traditional Desktop apps), and maximize service ambiguity across all devices so they work as seamless as possible. At least that's what I hope.
    "Bro, you know I lift cause I use a Lumia 920..."
    a5cent likes this.
  8. dznk's Avatar
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    #8  
    Unifying them would be great. It would boost the number of apps and in the process the number of people using WP. The sooner they do it the better.
    As for the Desktop going, yes it will at some point, but I hope not for many years. Microsoft would be shooting themselves in the foot if they tried to do it within the next few years, as too many people are still used to using it (me included).
  9. gsquared's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by anony_mouse View Post
    I think that could be the worst business decision of all time (worse even than IBM circa 1982).
    MS marketshare in smart phones: <5%
    MS marketshare in tablets: <5%
    MS marketshare in laptops/desktops: >90%

    I think I can say with some confidence that Microsoft will not get rid of the desktop.
    They don't have to get rid of it. All they need to do restrict the necessary tools to develop for it. The desktop will disappear on its own.
    Support your third-party developers. There just about all we have...
  10. marcomura's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsquared View Post
    They don't have to get rid of it. All they need to do restrict the necessary tools to develop for it. The desktop will disappear on its own.
    Yeah, who uses the desktop afterall...
  11. Laura Knotek's Avatar

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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsquared View Post
    They don't have to get rid of it. All they need to do restrict the necessary tools to develop for it. The desktop will disappear on its own.
    It will be a gradual process. Enterprises are not going to be able to get rid of legacy software and retrain all their employees at once.
    snowmutt and xandros9 like this.
  12. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
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    #12  
    I say go for it with removing the desktop from RT... after you move a few more things over to the Modern UI.
  13. anony_mouse's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by gsquared View Post
    They don't have to get rid of it. All they need to do restrict the necessary tools to develop for it. The desktop will disappear on its own.
    Time to buy Apple shares.
  14. BitPusher2600's Avatar
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    #14  
    I would've liked to have seen Windows Phone OS used in place of RT. Weren't they at one point considering scrapping RT or am I mistaken?
  15. dkediger's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Laura Knotek View Post
    It will be a gradual process. Enterprises are not going to be able to get rid of legacy software and retrain all their employees at once.
    If only they would free up Terminal Server/RDP/Hyper-V licensing.....And make a WinRT RDP client. That would make it possible on 8.x Pro/RT/WP devices. I would really, really consider rolling a bunch of desktop PC's over to a Surface 2/Nokia 2520, etc.
  16. anony_mouse's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkediger View Post
    If only they would free up Terminal Server/RDP/Hyper-V licensing.....And make a WinRT RDP client. That would make it possible on 8.x Pro/RT/WP devices. I would really, really consider rolling a bunch of desktop PC's over to a Surface 2/Nokia 2520, etc.
    How would you deploy those tablets? I could see them being used in a dock, with a keyboard, mouse and monitor (as with a laptop), and the user extracting them when they need portability. Is that what you are thinking of?

    Personally, I think I would stick with a laptop for work. A bigger screen and better keyboard is better for work, even with the extra weight. But I'd be interested to hear people's experiences of this kind of set up.
    marcomura likes this.
  17. dkediger's Avatar
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    #17  
    Its a good thought process. I work for a car dealership group. We have A LOT of legacy Win32 apps that aren't getting updated very rapidly. Its becoming a real pain from a hardware/software driver standpoint, as well as an OS/software layer standpoint to support those apps. There is unfortunately a lot of Java in those apps, and a lot of those utilize external access. If MS went "back to the future" and included a TS license with Windows RT devices I could cost justify kicking those apps into a TS desktop to isolate them a little. In the process, they can sell a bunch of SurfaceRT's as well as maybe a server or 2.

    Yeah - with a keyboard, mouse, monitor when needed. Would be perfect for sales portability, yet plug into a bigger presentation screen for use with a customer. We have very few traditional physical workspaces - except for that PC sitting there. And the phone. Most people have their desk extensions forwarded to a cell anyway - I would really like to get away from desk phone sets at some point.

    Service write up has to do a walk around courtesy inspection now. Most of those are iPad based, some can use a web browser. But then they still have to return to PC to perform the actual repair order entry. Two devices needed for essentially one job function. And one of those devices - the iPad - is really useful to us for just that inspection component. A $400 device that sits unused for 97% of the work day.

    We have a number of "group" employees that move from location to location. Most do have notebooks, but then we're still bit with the compatibility bug.

    I could do all that today, but the cost of having to acquire another full license for that TS/RDP instance is what holds me back
    Last edited by dkediger; 09-26-2013 at 04:00 PM. Reason: Added Content
  18. juanitoriv's Avatar
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    #18  
    With RT, you can do remote desktop, I think may be wrong though, natively. I'm in need of a new machine, and I'm tired of the PC only setup. Don't want a laptop, but a tablet/convertible is very appealing.
    From the CO and my 8X
  19. anony_mouse's Avatar
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    #19  
    Very interesting... I can see that tablets could work well for you. I think Microsoft really need to be flexible and to address this kind of situation. I'm not convinced about Windows RT for consumer use, but done properly, it could be great for enterprises (which iOS and Android don't really address in a serious way). To be honest, I see Microsoft as primarily an enterprise-facing company, not a consumer-facing one.

    I remember about ten years ago when Linux became a significant force in IT - the fact it was free made it cheap and easy to try out new ideas. It was a revelation at the lab I worked in at the time. Of course, Microsoft will want to protect their revenue streams, but they need to be careful that licensing conditions don't prevent people from experimenting, or force them towards other more open systems.
  20. dkediger's Avatar
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    #20  
    Yeah - There is a Modern RDP client. It has to be installed though - no biggie. What would be absolutely awesome would be a Parallels-style "Coherency" mode.

    The real big gotcha though is - to run virtual machines in TS/Hyper-V, you have to legally have a license for that virtual machine instance as well. Which is just as much as a regular desktop license. Way back with Windows 2000/NT, that virtual machine license was included with your desktop license.

    It would seem to me that including that virtual machine license with the physical machine license again could increase the pace of adoption of Windows RT devices, and prune the traditional desktop back even more on Windows 8.x.
  21. juanitoriv's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkediger View Post
    Yeah - There is a Modern RDP client. It has to be installed though - no biggie. What would be absolutely awesome would be a Parallels-style "Coherency" mode.

    The real big gotcha though is - to run virtual machines in TS/Hyper-V, you have to legally have a license for that virtual machine instance as well. Which is just as much as a regular desktop license. Way back with Windows 2000/NT, that virtual machine license was included with your desktop license.

    It would seem to me that including that virtual machine license with the physical machine license again could increase the pace of adoption of Windows RT devices, and prune the traditional desktop back even more on Windows 8.x.
    Ah ha. Gotcha.. I can understand that concern with a virtual machine such as a "slim client" type set up. But, isn't accessing a desktop remotely a different animal? From what I understand, remote access essentially just transfers output and input signals to the remote machine via LAN or via web. This wouldn't be a virtual machine type scenario, but instead and simply remote access to a fully licensed unit. For example, I have Cool Remote, PC Remote and Splashtop on my WP and W7 devices. I can control my PC, utilizing FULL functionality including mouse cursor, keyboard while having full view of the actual PC screen in real time, using these apps and companion server programs over my home network. I include AutoCAD in the list of such. Now, no files are stored on my WP, but If I am incorrect, please tell me. However I'm thinking that all you would need is an RDP client on W8, WP & RT to allow this "cross communication". All of the pertinent info would already be on the PC, as the RDP setup would just be a "mobile gateway"..
    From the CO and my 8X
  22. dkediger's Avatar
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    #22  
    We've kind of veered off the OT, but my discussion, and I feel a few others on here, is: what to do about the Desktop mode in Windows 8.x.

    There are kind of 2 functions that require it at the moment - legacy Windows management functions, and legacy desktop applications. Microsoft is doing what they can to move Windows management functions over to the Modern mode, but legacy desktop apps are a whole different ball of wax with countless 3rd parties - some no longer existing - involved.

    In my enterprise, I can't reasonably move forward from Windows 7 to Windows 8 on a broad scale with so much still living in the desktop mode. To borrow a phrase - "low information" users simply can't grasp it and I don't have the time to work that issue on an enterprise scale when I can simply stick with Windows 7. Boot to Desktop will alleviate a good portion of that issue, but it just kicks the can down the road.

    I've been in IT and around computers for, sheesh, 30 years now, and have been through several periods of truly fundamental change to the overall concept of how it works and is applied to everyday life and work. This is the cusp of another of those changes - this time its form factor and ubiquitous mobility in place of the traditional "desktop." Most of us "see" the other side of this change, which makes it frustrating waiting for all the pieces to come into place. I'm really hating to invest in rolling a new round of desktops because I can actually "touch" that different mode of use. All the pieces are essentially here to use a touch tablet, albeit still docked at times, and be work productive. I can make it work on a case by case basis.

    Two things would dramatically accelerate that change for me - and I would bet a lot of others: An awesome RDP client experience, and getting rid of the cost of that virtual machine license I would use to support the legacy desktop apps I still need to support. I think Microsoft would win as well - they accelerate adoption of Windows 8.x, and likely WinRT development and Modern programs. They could keep a large portion of those enterprises that would utilize a bundled VM license within Microsoft's camp. Which would sell some more Server product for Microsoft running those VM's.

    Maybe I'm missing something here - but the long and short of all of this is: I have capital budget to spend and I'm willing to spend it (hello, economic activity), but I'm really hating to do so on another round of traditional desktops that essentially shut off upgrades for 3-4 years.
    a5cent likes this.
  23. marcomura's Avatar
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    #23  
    I cannot believe of what I'm reading.
    Do you really think that the desktop environment is something "legacy" that, in a future, can be completely replaced by the new metro design?
    Don't you think that maybe there are other people, who use the computer for something other then browsing web sites and watching/listening to media and who need all the flexibility and the powerful (yes, metro IS LIMITED) of the desktop environment?

    How can you think that applications like Photoshop, AutoCAD, MatLab, Visual Studio can be made and used on the metro environment?
    To not mention other more specialized applications like Ansys Fluent, SoundPLAN, Autodesk Maya...
    Not everything can be implemented with tiles, stuff you touch and drag and other simple input interactions.

    You may want Windows RT and Windows Phone unified, and maybe the metro environment of Windows too, but the desktop environment will be unreplaceable for a long long time.
    Thanked by:
    sueha likes this.
  24. sumothong01's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcomura View Post
    You may want Windows RT and Windows Phone unified, and maybe the metro environment of Windows too, but the desktop environment will be unreplaceable for a long long time.
    This^ There will always be programs that will have to be run on the desktop. I do video editing and I don't even want to think about trying to do that in a metro UI. This is really the only reason I have a Desktop. I needed high computing power with lots of storage. While some laptops can do the high computing powers, very few are going to have 3-4TB of storage.
  25. rodan01's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcomura View Post
    I cannot believe of what I'm reading.
    Do you really think that the desktop environment is something "legacy" that, in a future, can be completely replaced by the new metro design?
    Don't you think that maybe there are other people, who use the computer for something other then browsing web sites and watching/listening to media and who need all the flexibility and the powerful (yes, metro IS LIMITED) of the desktop environment?

    How can you think that applications like Photoshop, AutoCAD, MatLab, Visual Studio can be made and used on the metro environment?
    To not mention other more specialized applications like Ansys Fluent, SoundPLAN, Autodesk Maya...
    Not everything can be implemented with tiles, stuff you touch and drag and other simple input interactions.

    You may want Windows RT and Windows Phone unified, and maybe the metro environment of Windows too, but the desktop environment will be unreplaceable for a long long time.
    You can add toolbars, menus and build a mouse/keyboard optimized app in metro. It doesn't make sense now because the market share of Windows 8 is small and traditional desktop is in 95% of the PCs, but in a couple of years this will happen. Probably Microsoft will find a solution to run legacy apps as metro apps.
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