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  1. cgk
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       #1  
    Some of the world's largest internet brands are claimed to be part of the information-sharing program since its introduction in 2007. Microsoft which is currently running an advertising campaign with the slogan "Your privacy is our priority" was the first, with collection beginning in December 2007.


    It was followed by Yahoo in 2008; Google, Facebook and PalTalk in 2009; YouTube in 2010; Skype and AOL in 2011; and finally Apple, which joined the program in 2012. The program is continuing to expand, with other providers due to come online.
    Just as 'evil' as google, this is why cheer-leading one mega-corporation over another is pretty silly - none of them actually care about you.



    NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secret files reveal | World news | guardian.co.uk
  2. crash1989's Avatar
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    #2  
    true, neither do we . But it is fun to argue who is the least evil among all :D ...

    people have too much time on their hands to waste ..
  3. blehblehbleh's Avatar
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    #3  
    I think the blame really should lie with the governmental agencies not so much with the corporations that comply with the law in this instance. Don't go twisting the scenario to flame bait.
    willied and Nabkawe5 like this.
  4. spaulagain's Avatar
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    The difference is in government privacy versus commercial privacy. Google does both the governmental and commercial disclosure of your information.

    I guarantee you that as long as you operate in the digital world, your privacy from the government is gone, no matter what company's products you use. You should assume that from day one. Whether or not that is a wrong or "evil" is quite subjective and certainly not black and white. Either way, that is the fault of the government, not the companies. Those companies may not have a choice if they wish to operate in the US.

    Where Google takes it a step further is with its commercial efforts and targeting using your personal information.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by spaulagain View Post
    The difference is in government privacy versus commercial privacy. Google does both the governmental and commercial disclosure of your information.

    I guarantee you that as long as you operate in the digital world, your privacy from the government is gone, no matter what company's products you use. You should assume that from day one. Whether or not that is a wrong or "evil" is quite subjective and certainly not black and white. Either way, that is the fault of the government, not the companies. Those companies may not have a choice if they wish to operate in the US.

    Where Google takes it a step further is with its commercial efforts and targeting using your personal information.
    I second that. At least with the government, if you're playing by the rules, you're not a target. Companies on the other hand, target everyone using their services.

    Oddly enough, I read this after watching Enemy of the State.
    I don't have a phone right now. At least, a working one.
  6. Newfangled's Avatar
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    #6  
    Obviously, these companies are disclosing this information under duress.

    It is those requesting the information and their motives that should be scrutinized, here.
  7. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #7  
    These companies haven't volunteered any data.

    It appears that the government is pretty much hacking.

    http://www.zdnet.com/fbi-nsa-said-to...e539&ttag=e539
    Laura Knotek likes this.
  8. spaulagain's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingTraveler View Post
    I second that. At least with the government, if you're playing by the rules, you're not a target. Companies on the other hand, target everyone using their services.

    Oddly enough, I read this after watching Enemy of the State.
    Ya, although I don't necessarily condone the government's access to this information, I simply acknowledge the truth regardless of any specific company.

    However, just because it's the government doesn't mean the innocent are not targets. The recent profiling and targeting by the IRS is a perfect example.
  9. Reflexx's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by spaulagain View Post
    Ya, although I don't necessarily condone the government's access to this information, I simply acknowledge the truth regardless of any specific company.

    However, just because it's the government doesn't mean the innocent are not targets. The recent profiling and targeting by the IRS is a perfect example.
    It's actually worse when it's the government. If they decide they don't like you, they answer to nobody. Absolute power.
  10. WasteSomeTime's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by crash1989 View Post
    true, neither do we . But it is fun to argue who is the least evil among all :D ...

    people have too much time on their hands to waste ..
    maybe for you.
  11. spaulagain's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Winning Guy View Post
    These companies haven't volunteered any data.

    It appears that the government is pretty much hacking.

    http://www.zdnet.com/fbi-nsa-said-to...e539&ttag=e539
    On top of that, it appears these allegations by the Post are false...

    http://www.zdnet.com/the-real-story-...sm-7000016570/
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    Laura Knotek likes this.
  12. smoledman's Avatar
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    #12  
    Apple was the last to join...
  13. spaulagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoledman View Post
    Apple was the last to join...
    Join what? Read the article above. There was nothing to "join."
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  14. fatpigeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoledman View Post
    Apple was the last to join...
    It's not so much that they're more principled, it's just that Apple only recently had a cloud that works worth a damn.

    But you can definitely say that Microsoft has been the first to inadvertently put foot in mouth this time around.

    Oops


    (Though it's definitely not the first time "Microsoft" and "foot in mouth" has been mentioned together. You could say the two go together like a taco and a warm fart...)
  15. spaulagain's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by fatpigeon View Post
    It's not so much that they're more principled, it's just that Apple only recently had a cloud that works worth a damn.

    But you can definitely say that Microsoft has been the first to inadvertently put foot in mouth this time around.

    Oops
    http://www.microsoft.com/global/secu...aign-hero2.jpg

    (Though it's definitely not the first time "Microsoft" and "foot in mouth" has been mentioned together. You could say the two go together like a taco and a warm fart...)
    What are you talking about? Like noted earlier, Microsoft boasts its respect for your privacy relative to commercial practices. However, privacy from the government is not controlled by them. They can't deny something the government requests if there is a law backing the request. So your statement/accusation is completely flawed.

    And its also been noted that the details of the allegations against the program were incorrect.
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  16. TripsG's Avatar
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    #16  
    The hardest part of governing is trying to be everything to everyone. While the idea that the government actually gives a rip about what you're doing online daily is humorous at first blush, the reality is, as American's, we demand this kind of thing, even when we don't consciously acknowledge that fact.

    A man walks into a bar and begins to drink too much. He leaves, gets into his car, and proceeds to kill a family of 5 coming home from getting ice cream. One third of the community is outraged that the man didn't take personal responsibility but doesn't want government to tell him what to do. One third is angry that the bartender, the manager and the owner (who wasn't even there) didn't have a process in place to cut him off and thinks they should be held personally responsible. And the last third are angry that the police didn't do enough to catch him while he was driving drunk and want more cops on the street and more legislation to stop it from happening in the first place. What does government do? They do whatever gives them the best outcome while trying to manage all three expectations.

    There are roughly 350,000,000 people in the US alone. Government has a hard enough time dealing with the hundreds of instances of road rage, murders, rapes, burglaries, domestic violence, kids lunch programs, testing, FEMA, floods, tornadoes...this list just goes on and on. Imagine just for a moment the things that they know that you don't...and probably are glad to keep it that way.

    To think that we are at the point of being 1984 is borderline hysteria. To think we aren't headed that way is foolish. But, more importantly, to think what might happen to you, your children, your family or your friends, not to mention the average person on the street, if programs like this didn't exist? It makes absolutely no sense to me why you wouldn't want someone watching your back. That's what programs like this do. They ultimately protect you.

    If you honestly didn't think something like this was already happening every time you swiped your credit card, tapped out a text, made a call or sent dear old Mum an email, then you've been living in a hole...and it's time to come up for air.

    Not sure why I'm going on a rant here. I guess it's the disgustingly duplicitous manner in which we manage our lives. We get angry when our guys lose and their guys win and they get angry when their guys lose and our guys win. Then everyone complains all while doing little or nothing to change the culture.

    But I digress...
  17. fatpigeon's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by spaulagain View Post
    What are you talking about? Like noted earlier, Microsoft boasts its respect for your privacy relative to commercial practices. However, privacy from the government is not controlled by them. They can't deny something the government requests if there is a law backing the request. So your statement/accusation is completely flawed.

    And its also been noted that the details of the allegations against the program were incorrect.
    Privacy is privacy - and other companies (twitter for one - freakin' twitter) have resisted similar attempts, if we're talking 'pure legal' demands. Don't let that overactive knee hit you on the chin.
    Last edited by fatpigeon; 06-11-2013 at 06:48 PM.
  18. spaulagain's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by fatpigeon View Post
    Privacy is privacy - and other companies (twitter for one - freakin' twitter) have resisted similar attempts, if we're talking 'pure legal' demands. Don't let that overactive knee hit you on the chin.
    And you think Microsoft or any of the other companies didn't resist this?

    Not to mention this accusation is all incorrect. Read Ed Botts article about this story.

    You are the one with the knee jerk reaction. Let me guess, you think we didn't go to the moon, JFKs death was a government plot along with 911?
    Laura Knotek likes this.

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