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  1. stephen_az's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    Yes. The thing is, Android and iOS have been around long enough for their update procedures to be fairly well understood. This is what people base their expectations on. However, although everyone realizes iOS has a completely different approach to updates than Android, and visa versa, few can imagine that WP too might have it's own and entirely unique approach to major version updates. It does.

    Microsoft, Apple and Google have different ideas about how an ecosystem is best maintained and what types of fragmentation are tolerable. These differing views are what each OS developer's unique approach to major version updates can be traced back to.

    WP devices won't update to major new versions like iOS does.

    What complicates matters somewhat, is that version numbers are nothing more than arbitrary labels. Microsoft can decide to call WP8.1 WP2013. Instead if WP8.5 they can call it WP-Blue, or instead of WP9 they can call it WP8.9. Version numbers don't really mean anything. My point is, there will be a cutoff point that coincides with the introduction of new hardware, and that point will come far earlier than it does on iOS.
    To quote your own prior post:

    "Based on what do you believe that to be true?"

    You have said absolutely nothing that demonstrates you have any genuine inside information to speak so directly about the WP8 update trajectory. .
  2. stephen_az's Avatar
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    lol, and how do you know?

    BTW: was talking only about major version updates, not 8.x

    I had to deal with comments like yours back before WP8 was released as well. Most expected WP7 to update too.

    If you don't like it, fine. Just consider it food for thought.
    If you try using the phrase "I think" or any typical variant, it is food for thought. To state absolutely that it will not update implies some inside knowledge you obvious do not possess.
  3. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by stephen_az View Post
    "Based on what do you believe that to be true?"

    You have said absolutely nothing that demonstrates you have any genuine inside information to speak so directly about the WP8 update.
    So what do you want me to say? If I said I was Joe Bellfiore, would that add any credibility? Of course not. I don't think I can prove anything sitting behind a keyboard.

    I think my past posts have shown I know at least a little bit about what is going on. Make of it what you will.
  4. nube_android's Avatar
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       #54  
    Well, basically you guys are saying I wont get all of the WP9 features. Kind of disappointing. I think I may go for an iPhone 5 knowing I'll get updates for like 4 years.
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  5. travisel's Avatar
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    I thought you were previously talking about apps. Sorry. Windows store apps run on both x86 and ARMv7. That is what I meant was solved.

    What you are referring to, is that ability of the OS itself to run on different CPU architectures. However, that too is solved, thanks to the shared and portable Windows kernel that's been discussed in the media this last while. The whole point of a kernel is to abstract away the differences in CPU architectures, so the software layers above it can ignore those differences. As it turns out, W8RT is just a subset of W8. That subset is already installed as part of every single W8 installation, so technically, we already have W8RT running on x86.



    What I find on the web doesn't agree with you. That might have been true at one point, but Intel is speeding things up on the low-power side to defend better against ARM. Intel is delivering 14nm based parts for testing in less than four months. 14nm production will ramp up this year. Parts will be launched in 2014, possibly even early 2014.

    Just as Merrifield is part of the Silvermont family, the successor to Merrififled will be part of the Airmont family, but it won't ship under that name. That SoC hasn't yet been announced and doesn't have a publicly disclosed codename.
    Again the only 14nm Intel will have available for consumers in 2014 in Intel Broadwell microarchitecture! (5th generation) at the same time as Intel Atom 22nm Silvermont "Bay Trail".

    14nm Airmont Atom & Intel Skylake microarchitecture (6th generation) is set for 2015!

    I only wish you were right but unfortunately we wait!
    ATIV S is LIFE
  6. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by travisel View Post
    Again the only 14nm Intel will have available for consumers in 2014 in Intel Broadwell microarchitecture! (5th generation) at the same time as Intel Atom 22nm Silvermont "Bay Trail"!
    It was back in 2011, at an investors meeting, when Intel released their first roadmap showing a planned Airmont release for 2014 (bottom right):

    atomroadmap.jpg

    This has been repeated all over the web ever since, including on Wikipedia:

    "In May 2011, Intel has announced an accelerated roadmap for Atom SoC, with 22 nm Silvermont core scheduled in 2013, and 14 nm Airmont core scheduled in 2014"

    I don't work at Intel, but to the best of my knowledge, that roadmap hasn't changed.
  7. sentimentGX4's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    1)The x86 / ARMv7 incompatibilities aren't the problem you think they are. Microsoft has already solved this for W8RT. The same app runs on both CPU architectures. That will work for WP8 apps too.
    I don't even believe the same app actually runs on both Windows 8 and Windows RT. Windows 8 is likely using a virtual machine or emulator to run RT apps except we don't notice much impact in speed since x86 is so much faster than ARM. RT doesn't have the processing power to handle a virtual machine running x86 programs and its unlikely any virtual machine will make programs like Photoshop run smoothly in the foreseeable future.
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  8. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by sentimentGX4 View Post
    I don't even believe the same app actually runs on both Windows 8 and Windows RT.
    The whole process is too complicated to discuss here, but in the simplest scenario, yes, the exact same app runs unmodified on both W8 and W8RT. I'm omitting a million little details of course, but that gets the gist of it. You don't have to believe me. Just do some research. It is all publicly available information, like on this blog from a Microsoft employee. Quote:

    "developing an app for Windows on ARM is the same as developing a Metro style app for x86/64 PCs; that is, the same Metro style app will run on either hardware."

    Of course I'm not talking about traditional desktop software like Photoshop. I'm talking only about Windows Store apps. Finally, both W8 and W8RT run Windows Store apps in a VM. It's called the .NET runtime environment.
  9. travisel's Avatar
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by nube_android View Post
    Well, basically you guys are saying I wont get all of the WP9 features. Kind of disappointing. I think I may go for an iPhone 5 knowing I'll get updates for like 4 years.
    You right! Just like WM6.5 can't use WP7 software and WP7.8 can't use WP8 software!

    WP8 won't use WP9 especially if it's ARMv8 or Intel 64 hardware used for next generation platform. Just the way it goes!

    Can you play PS3 games on PS2? Same thing here.

    The best you could hope for is WP9 uses ARMv8 hardware technology that can still use all old ARMv7 WP8 software! I personally don't care about backwards compatibility because I want new apps with my new Phone. 😁
    ATIV S is LIFE
  10. jhoff80's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by sentimentGX4 View Post
    I don't even believe the same app actually runs on both Windows 8 and Windows RT. Windows 8 is likely using a virtual machine or emulator to run RT apps except we don't notice much impact in speed since x86 is so much faster than ARM.
    This is just entirely wrong.
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  11. travisel's Avatar
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    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    This is just entirely wrong.
    You can't run apps cross platform because of hardware differences between Intel x86 & ARM ARMv7 technology. This is why Microsoft made 3 versions of Windows! ...Windows 8 for x86/x86-64 Intel technology and Windows RT for ARMv7 32-bit ARM technology.

    In the future there be Windows RT64 for ARMv8 64-bit technology.
    ATIV S is LIFE
  12. derDaniel's Avatar
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    #62  
    Yes, they will.

    This is the only logic thing MS could do.
  13. jhoff80's Avatar
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    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by travisel View Post
    You can't run apps cross platform because of hardware differences between Intel x86 & ARM ARMv7 technology.
    And yet, Visual Studio compiles applications (natively, I might add) for all three architectures. Sorry, but you don't have any idea what you're talking about here.
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  14. travisel's Avatar
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    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    And yet, Visual Studio compiles applications (natively, I might add) for all three architectures. Sorry, but you don't have any idea what you're talking about here.
    So your telling me that you can run all x86 Windows 8 software on your Windows RT device? Or run all Windows RT Apps on Windows 8 PC?

    If this were true there would be no need for Windows RT (R-RISC T-Technology)

    I'm not saying that software can't work together but the programming language is very different from RISC to CISC in how it's processed.

    To say ARMv7 is the same as x86 architecture is wrong.

    Now can use tricks to emulate apps and software under Visual Studio. Yes your right about this part!
    ATIV S is LIFE
  15. #65  
    i am hoping that WP8 will not be ditched like they did with WP7.5, there was good justification from MS about why they had to ditch WP 7.5. WP8 customers will be ditched again IF MS decided to use X86 processor, it might be a while before Intel can compete with ARM on power consumption, if MS decides to change architecture again in couple of years then WP platform is screwed, we can forget about Windows Mobile Platform. Even if X86 is better than ARM it is major inconvenience for booth customers & app developers.
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  16. travisel's Avatar
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    #66  
    I own a WP8 ATIV S smartphone based on ARMv7 32-bit technology and knowing the future is ARMv8 64-bit technology, the future of Windows Phone is clear!

    Good thing the move from ARMv7 to ARMv8 starting in 2015. Ill almost get 3 years out of my ATIV S?

    The sad thing I here is there might be a Windows 8 Phone or call it Windows Phone 8 Pro? That right x86 Windows Phone!

    Now I don't know if it is x86 or x86-64 hardware depends on the Atom they use.

    The upcoming Intel Atom "Bay Trail" is a ARMv7 killer SoC Intel Processor with less power than ARMv7 Snapdragon 800 series. We will see? 😎
    ATIV S is LIFE
  17. travisel's Avatar
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    #67  
    The weird part about the upcoming "Blue" is I believe it's a SP1 (Service Pack 1) for unifying Windows 8, Windows RT, WP8. But then found some saying it's a new NT 6.3 kernel? That would mean all new Windows altogether?

    Would Microsoft kill off Windows 8 in the first year?
    ATIV S is LIFE
  18. jhoff80's Avatar
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    #68  
    It's not emulated. It's native (managed) code. You write the application once and it compiles to run on all architectures. That's why 99% of all the WinRT applications run on ARM, x86, and x64. No, you can't run desktop software on Windows RT, but in many cases, that's more of a matter of it being locked down. Pure .NET applications will run perfectly on a jailbroken device.
  19. ImAdrian23's Avatar
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    #69  
    Are we still doing this? Microsoft themselves said they are going to support for AT LEAST 1.5 years a platform.
  20. #70  
    I need to ask Steve when he comes around for some fish and chips. Will it be okay if I let you know close to time?
    Patient Windows Phone User since October 2010 till cores and apps do us apart.


  21. travisel's Avatar
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    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by ImAdrian23 View Post
    Are we still doing this? Microsoft themselves said they are going to support for AT LEAST 1.5 years a platform.
    I think it's only a rumor that there is a new NT 6.3 Kernel but if true 9 months after Windows 8 on market now there's a new Windows? And the 18 months guaranty isn't much considered that we already used 4 months! What 14 to go?

    So much hate for Windows 8 I don't get it? I just hope BLUE update is only a unified service pack 1 for Windows 8, Windows RT, WP8 only we hope to fix our eco platform we already have and not start a new one!
    ATIV S is LIFE
  22. sparksy's Avatar
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    #72  
    after getting 7.8 update think im going to upgrade to android
  23. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by sparksy View Post
    after getting 7.8 update think im going to upgrade to android
    Beautiful idea, move to an OS where 90% of devices get no updates of note whatsoever.

    I'll admit MS must do a better job, but at least they have an update policy. Android represents the lawless hinterlands in comparison, you just buy a device and hope for the best.
  24. sparksy's Avatar
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    #74  
    Least they might do updates that actually make your phone work better not worse!!!!!!!!
  25. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by sparksy View Post
    Least they might do updates that actually make your phone work better not worse!!!!!!!!
    Yep, they might do one, or they might not. It might work better, or it might not... I've never noticed problems with the bits from Google. It the OEM's that stink.
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