Welcome to the WPCentral Forums Create Your Account or Ask a Question Answers in 5 minutes - no registration required!
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 76
Like Tree67Likes
  1. bilzkh's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    670 Posts
    Global Posts
    672 Global Posts
       #1  
    If you watched the BB10 launch event you can tell that BlackBerry - regardless of what divisions, groups, teams, etc - are fully behind BlackBerry 10. Heck, they even had a roving app hit-squad in each of their key markets to find out that region's top apps, and they made a commitment in securing those apps for BB10. Also, BlackBerry seems to have a clear idea or belief as to where the smartphone market is heading, and are willing to push towards that route through their own products and services. Heck, their messaging around "mobile computing" was easily something Microsoft could have pushed with WP8, but it didn't.

    The point I want to draw on is how it's clear that BlackBerry backs BB10, yet it makes it even clearer that Microsoft doesn't back WP8 to that extent. In relative terms, MS is putting in less into WP8 that BlackBerry is into BB10, and the reality reflects it. Look at how BlackBerry managed to secure (at least for Canada) most if not all of the top media/news apps, or key banking apps (e.g. RBC), or partnerships with carriers and banks to proliferate NFC payments, etc. This is the commitment one needs to show in order to fight in the smartphone market.

    Now look at WP8. At its heart it is a superb OS with the social network integration, lenses integration, augmented reality apps, NFC and Wallet, etc. Then why, why in the name of all that is rational and sensible is MS not pushing each of these elements to the end-user in meaningful ways? Or rather, simply put, why isn't MS putting in the money and commitment behind such an effort? Why is it that we have to put up with a certain business division 'evaluating' Xbox's value on Windows Phone? Someone at the top needs to put Windows Phone front and center as a key pillar of Microsoft's future in an increasingly 'mobile computing' world, but clearly that isn't happening.
  2. philpeeps's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    487 Posts
    Global Posts
    657 Global Posts
    #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by bilzkh View Post
    If you watched the BB10 launch event you can tell that BlackBerry - regardless of what divisions, groups, teams, etc - are fully behind BlackBerry 10. Heck, they even had a roving app hit-squad in each of their key markets to find out that region's top apps, and they made a commitment in securing those apps for BB10. Also, BlackBerry seems to have a clear idea or belief as to where the smartphone market is heading, and are willing to push towards that route through their own products and services. Heck, their messaging around "mobile computing" was easily something Microsoft could have pushed with WP8, but it didn't.

    The point I want to draw on is how it's clear that BlackBerry backs BB10, yet it makes it even clearer that Microsoft doesn't back WP8 to that extent. In relative terms, MS is putting in less into WP8 that BlackBerry is into BB10, and the reality reflects it. Look at how BlackBerry managed to secure (at least for Canada) most if not all of the top media/news apps, or key banking apps (e.g. RBC), or partnerships with carriers and banks to proliferate NFC payments, etc. This is the commitment one needs to show in order to fight in the smartphone market.

    Now look at WP8. At its heart it is a superb OS with the social network integration, lenses integration, augmented reality apps, NFC and Wallet, etc. Then why, why in the name of all that is rational and sensible is MS not pushing each of these elements to the end-user in meaningful ways? Or rather, simply put, why isn't MS putting in the money and commitment behind such an effort? Why is it that we have to put up with a certain business division 'evaluating' Xbox's value on Windows Phone? Someone at the top needs to put Windows Phone front and center as a key pillar of Microsoft's future in an increasingly 'mobile computing' world, but clearly that isn't happening.
    Microsoft is more than WP8. RIM is not more than Blackberry.
  3. JamesDax3's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    331 Posts
    Global Posts
    855 Global Posts
    #3  
    MS has NOTHING to learn from Blackberry.
    Thanked by:
    WinFan1, sejgiul and bawboh86 like this.
  4. stmav's Avatar
    Retired Moderator

    Posts
    3,685 Posts
    Global Posts
    3,767 Global Posts
    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by philpeeps View Post
    Microsoft is more than WP8. RIM is not more than Blackberry.
    +1
    Thanked by:
    WinFan1 and Raghu Gundlapalli like this.
  5. tissotti's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,106 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,107 Global Posts
    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by philpeeps View Post
    Microsoft is more than WP8. RIM is not more than Blackberry.
    So is that the message us WP users should take then? Not too encouraging going forward.
    Ranak Mann likes this.
  6. ohgood's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    840 Posts
    Global Posts
    843 Global Posts
    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesDax3 View Post
    MS has NOTHING to learn from Blackberry.
    Any company that can't learn from others will make the same mistakes.

    Substitute people, animals, markets, history...
    awwwww how sweeeeeet. thanks !
  7. philpeeps's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    487 Posts
    Global Posts
    657 Global Posts
    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by tissotti View Post
    So is that the message us WP users should take then? Not too encouraging going forward.
    Take it as you will but to compare a company's efforts whose livelihood DEPENDS on the success of BB10 to a company whose livelihood does NOT depend on WP8 is pretty non-sensical to me...
    Gergolos and Steephill like this.
  8. ImAdrian23's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    269 Posts
    #8  
    WRONG WRONG WRONG.
    Microsoft has to learn from BlackBerry that copying the crap out of all OSes will get you to the top.
    /s.
  9. Lucky7Phone's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    34 Posts
    Global Posts
    42 Global Posts
    #9  
    Copy what?

    Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk 2
  10. bilzkh's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    670 Posts
    Global Posts
    672 Global Posts
       #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by philpeeps View Post
    Take it as you will but to compare a company's efforts whose livelihood DEPENDS on the success of BB10 to a company whose livelihood does NOT depend on WP8 is pretty non-sensical to me...
    Sure, Microsoft's immediate livelihood might not depend on WP, but a limb or two might.

    Smartphones are becoming one of the most common - if not the most common - form of computing sold and used by people worldwide. At some point, smartphone users may become the greatest proportion of users for online services, among which services that Microsoft is trying to push as alternatives to Google i.e. Bing, Maps, Outlook, Office Web Apps, etc. Windows Phone is Microsoft's best OS to deliver Microsoft services in the best possible manner, if that falls to the wayside in terms of smartphone adoption, then it will block Microsoft's online services from succeeding as well as they should. Sure, they might keep on living, but they will not succeed and beat the competition - which is the real standard we need to use here (being around isn't good enough).

    Besides, should these services thrive, then some flexibility is afforded to Microsoft in terms of lightening up on OS licensing fees, which in turn can result in cheaper Windows Phones offered in the market. It also helps mitigate Google's reach where it hurts them most (i.e. their services).
  11. tissotti's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,106 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,107 Global Posts
    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky7Phone View Post
    Copy what?

    Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk 2
    Nokia's Harmattan and Swipe UI. It's build around Qt that Nokia developed to mobile space back from 2007-2011 spending billions of euros doing that.

    Though i don't really believe they "copied". They are using some assets Nokia did on their brute force on their hey days and using those, plus bringing a lot of their own. Same goes for pretty much any OS and UI there is.
  12. squire777's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,198 Posts
    #12  
    Reading reactions to BB10 on tech sites and the CB forum it looks like Blackberry should have learned from Microsoft. I see a lot of fans upset over the delayed launch in the US, a lackluster launch event, and devices that didn't have killer features or design that would generate some buzz. I think BB fans hyped up BB10 too much and it failed to live up to it. RIM shares are dropping considerably too.

    Looking at the big tech sites I see a lot of negative or mediocre reviews for BB10 and the Z10. IIRC WP8 and the launch devices like the 920 and the 8X had reviews that were better and there was more buzz behind those products.

    The funniest has to be those fans that think there is some conspiracy by Apple, Google, and MS to keep Blackberry out of the US.
    Ranak Mann likes this.
  13. philpeeps's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    487 Posts
    Global Posts
    657 Global Posts
    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by bilzkh View Post
    Sure, Microsoft's immediate livelihood might not depend on WP, but a limb or two might.

    Smartphones are becoming one of the most common - if not the most common - form of computing sold and used by people worldwide. At some point, smartphone users may become the greatest proportion of users for online services, among which services that Microsoft is trying to push as alternatives to Google i.e. Bing, Maps, Outlook, Office Web Apps, etc. Windows Phone is Microsoft's best OS to deliver Microsoft services in the best possible manner, if that falls to the wayside in terms of smartphone adoption, then it will block Microsoft's online services from succeeding as well as they should. Sure, they might keep on living, but they will not succeed and beat the competition - which is the real standard we need to use here (being around isn't good enough).
    Microsoft's products are almost all cross-platform so a phone OS is not required to push those products. I can get Bing Maps, Exchange Mail, Office web apps on most any modern computing platform.
  14. theefman's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    2,751 Posts
    Global Posts
    2,752 Global Posts
    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by philpeeps View Post
    Microsoft is more than WP8. RIM is not more than Blackberry.

    Thats the point, the whole of BB is focused behind their mobile effort with BB10, while with Microsoft WP is more like a hobby and gets the crumbs from other big divisions like Windows, Office and Xbox. Yes, BB has no choice as its their core business but WP is floundering because Microsoft is too busy bickering internally to properly get behind WP.
  15. tissotti's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,106 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,107 Global Posts
    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by squire777 View Post
    Reading reactions to BB10 on tech sites and the CB forum it looks like Blackberry should have learned from Microsoft. I see a lot of fans upset over the delayed launch in the US, a lackluster launch event, and devices that didn't have killer features or design that would generate some buzz. I think BB fans hyped up BB10 too much and it failed to live up to it. RIM shares are dropping considerably too.

    Looking at the big tech sites I see a lot of negative or mediocre reviews for BB10 and the Z10. IIRC WP8 and the launch devices like the 920 and the 8X had reviews that were better and there was more buzz behind those products.

    The funniest has to be those fans that think there is some conspiracy by Apple, Google, and MS to keep Blackberry out of the US.
    I think some are getting the topic wrong here. Nobody here is expecting them to take over the world.

    Only thing we wanna see is for WP to move faster. With the lead time WP has had and the money behind it, there should not even be discussion of somebody going to BB10 over WP.

    Quote Originally Posted by theefman View Post
    Thats the point, the whole of BB is focused behind their mobile effort with BB10, while with Microsoft WP is more like a hobby and gets the crumbs from other big divisions like Windows, Office and Xbox. Yes, BB has no choice as its their core business but WP is floundering because Microsoft is too busy bickering internally to properly get behind WP.
    Exactly. Unfortunately reminds me so much of Nokia back in 2007.
  16. bilzkh's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    670 Posts
    Global Posts
    672 Global Posts
       #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by philpeeps View Post
    Microsoft's products are almost all cross-platform so a phone OS is not required to push those products. I can get Bing Maps, Exchange Mail, Office web apps on most any modern computing platform.
    Availability is not the point, it is whether that OS best delivers the service and puts it front and center to the end-user (i.e. encouraging adoption). On Android one is prompted to sign-in using a Gmail address, on Windows Phone one is prompted to sign-in using Windows Live, and Live becomes integral to best utilizing the OS (thereby pushing a user to buy into the ecosystem).

    The fact that the Entertainment and Services Division would have the audacity to review Xbox's value on Windows Phone when Xbox itself was a loss-maker not too-too long ago is remarkable. I understand these divisions operate on a budget and expectations, but these expectations need to reflect the necessity of Windows Phone in keeping Microsoft relevant in the mobile market.

    It's also ridiculous that Photosynth isn't on WP8 yet. Unacceptable.
  17. gsquared's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    1,375 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,376 Global Posts
    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by theefman View Post
    Thats the point, the whole of BB is focused behind their mobile effort with BB10, while with Microsoft WP is more like a hobby and gets the crumbs from other big divisions like Windows, Office and Xbox. Yes, BB has no choice as its their core business but WP is floundering because Microsoft is too busy bickering internally to properly get behind WP.
    I think you are arguing here just for arguments sake. Honestly, this is one of the weakest arguments I've seen on this board.

    BB is fully behind BB10 because its the only product offering they have!

    Have you ever heard the saying "don't put all of your eggs in one basket"? BB is breaking that time proven rule. If it doesn't work out for them they are done as an independent company.
    Support your third-party developers. There just about all we have...
    JerseySal likes this.
  18. bawboh86's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    571 Posts
    Global Posts
    792 Global Posts
    #18  
    Microsoft is also putting their efforts into how fluidly everything works between WP8 and Win8/RT. I have 2 Win8 devices at home (desktop and laptop) and my WP8 device (Lumia 920). The syncing between just the Contacts beats out anything I dealt with with say Google contacts. Everytime I got a new Android device, I'd have to go through and re-link all duplicate contacts, but I haven't had the issue ONCE with anything MS has cranked out.

    My point here is, MS is pushing to get new things to WP just as much as they are pushing to make a seamless experience between on devices running Windows. BB can't say that. They're all behind making BB10 successful, even if it sucks trying to use it with your desktop.

    I personally think a lot of companies could learn from MS about how they're making an entire experience between more than just tablets and phones, but with your computer and game consoles as well. They're really pushing to get everything working together, not just 2 devices. That's A LOT of work, and it's going to take some time and internal rearranging in the company to get it right (which they're in that transition phase right now).
    Thanked by:
    SOMEnameItried likes this.
  19. bilzkh's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    670 Posts
    Global Posts
    672 Global Posts
       #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by bawboh86 View Post
    Microsoft is also putting their efforts into how fluidly everything works between WP8 and Win8/RT. I have 2 Win8 devices at home (desktop and laptop) and my WP8 device (Lumia 920). The syncing between just the Contacts beats out anything I dealt with with say Google contacts. Everytime I got a new Android device, I'd have to go through and re-link all duplicate contacts, but I haven't had the issue ONCE with anything MS has cranked out.

    My point here is, MS is pushing to get new things to WP just as much as they are pushing to make a seamless experience between on devices running Windows. BB can't say that. They're all behind making BB10 successful, even if it sucks trying to use it with your desktop.

    I personally think a lot of companies could learn from MS about how they're making an entire experience between more than just tablets and phones, but with your computer and game consoles as well. They're really pushing to get everything working together, not just 2 devices. That's A LOT of work, and it's going to take some time and internal rearranging in the company to get it right (which they're in that transition phase right now).
    That's all great, and I agree with you, but in my view it only speaks to how well Microsoft can integrate different products and services of its eco-system. That's great when comparing how its competitors go about doing the same, and I think Microsoft excels within that single market. However, the way I see it, if one has a product in a major/vitally important market, that product needs to take center-stage in one's company when it comes to that specific market.

    For example, when attempting to succeed in the smartphone market, Windows Phone should be Microsoft's core priority when it comes to that market. What this means is that all other products/services need to be subordinated to Windows Phone when it comes to all things mobile phone. For example, Xbox can't screw around by releasing iconic games such as Kinectimals on rival platforms, and it must aggressively produce quality Halo and Forza games for WP (exclusively). Alternatively, having teams (and money) to study and determine what are the top 100 or even 200 phone apps within each regional-market, and bring those top apps to WP (I'm sure the money/time spent for Kinectimals on iOS could've been put to good use here). Or that cross-platform work is geared to ensure that services from Amazon, Nokia, Google, etc are put onto Windows Phone in a manner that is more value-added and attractive than the competition, and that Mac users have a good WP client. My point is simple, in its words and actions, Microsoft needs to demonstrate that when it comes to smartphones, Windows Phone is priority one by a long shot.
    bawboh86 and web99 like this.
  20. cgk
    cgk is offline
    cgk's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    566 Posts
    Global Posts
    7,828 Global Posts
    #20  
    To be blunt, I thought that the BB10 launch event was similar to the WP8 one in that both failed to sell the technical merits of their platforms - both featured stiff un-interesting grey men who could have be explaining their latest prostate exam for all the interest they could work up.
    Thanked by:
  21. cgk
    cgk is offline
    cgk's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    566 Posts
    Global Posts
    7,828 Global Posts
    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
    Any company that can't learn from others will make the same mistakes.

    Substitute people, animals, markets, history...
    That is true but unless Blackberry actually manage to achieve decent sales with BB10 how can we actually assess that they have something worth saying? The launch event and all the surrounding hype is not the time to assess that, it is in two quarters when we see if BB10 actually manages to make a splash in the market. What if it bombs? Are we going to say "wow that is the lesson to follow?" I doubt it.
    bawboh86 likes this.
  22. ny_yankees's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    227 Posts
    Global Posts
    231 Global Posts
    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by cgk View Post
    To be blunt, I thought that the BB10 launch event was similar to the WP8 one in that both failed to sell the technical merits of their platforms - both featured stiff un-interesting grey men who could have be explaining their latest prostate exam for all the interest they could work up.
    But grey men who need prostate exams aren't really the generation Microsoft is really targeting though
    bawboh86 likes this.
  23. cgk
    cgk is offline
    cgk's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    566 Posts
    Global Posts
    7,828 Global Posts
    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by ny_yankees View Post
    But grey men who need prostate exams aren't really the generation Microsoft is really targeting though
    Maybe they should start, as Android/IOS seem to have the rest of the market covered.
    bawboh86 likes this.
  24. ny_yankees's Avatar
    Member

    Posts
    227 Posts
    Global Posts
    231 Global Posts
    #24  


    I believe this is who Microsoft is targeting. Because Microsoft knows in about another 10 years, it will be Generation Y who will be taking over the Office world and our generation, Generation Y will be the key to keeping Microsoft alive in the future. We grew up with Microsoft but then deviated later on when Apple and Google came into play. Once the older generation is gone, if Microsoft loses Generation Y as a customer, it's future will not looks so bright then
  25. #25  
    I think one main issue is that in order for windows phone 8 to gain more traction, windows 8 needs to first, and it is, but it had a bumpy launch...Sure it sold well, but people have a negative perception of it. (Even though its a fantastic OS). I understand people not liking it on a desktop or a laptop but on a touchscreen I feel that it is easily the most productive, fluid, and best layout of any touch-based OS. Its funny because as much complaints as you will hear with people with windows 8, I have yet to hear one when it comes to a touchscreen because it rocks on one...I have one...I should know.

    So back to the point...Windows 8 needs to catch on and then Microsoft will get the magical mystical apple halo effect where people will be like "I use win8, and office, and I have an xbox, so why don't I buy a windows phone and have them all sync together...?" The smart thing about Microsoft is that even though they are growing slowly, they are trending upward, the same can't be said for RIM and probably soon to be iOS. It seems apple has peaked and they won't go any higher than they are now. Google is the main competitor Microsoft and Apple need to worry about most.
    Thanked by:
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-22-2012, 07:56 AM
  2. What cues should WP8 take from Windows 8?
    By IAmVortigaunt in forum Windows Phone 7
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-04-2012, 08:49 PM
  3. What MSFT can learn from HP...
    By simonnyc in forum Windows Phone 7
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-24-2011, 08:27 PM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-25-2011, 07:04 PM
  5. You know what I miss from Blackberry-land?
    By cdub66 in forum Windows Phone Apps
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-06-2011, 09:07 AM

Posting Permissions