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  1. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
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    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by arrowrand View Post
    #droidrage doesn't have anything to do with Google ending EAS usage.

    1. It costs money, and that money was going to Microsoft.

    2. EAS has serious compatibility issues with the features available in Google Contacts and Google Calendar.

    Bing vs Google Challenge.

    A worker in the Cincinnati Microsoft Store didn't believe me when I told him that I went 5 for 5 Google in the challenge, so he challenged me to do it again in front of him.

    I did it again, 5 for 5 Google. He first wanted to pick the search terms, which I said no to. He then wanted me to only look at the first few results, which I also refused to do.
    It was the Scroogle campaign. That and the #droidrage campaign. They might not be a direct reason to end EAS support (and dropping app support for Win 8) but you can bet your bottom dollar that it was a big reason, even though both campaigns were childish and proved futile in the end, not to mention the spectacular backfiring of #droidrage. Why would Microsoft expect anything from Google now?
  2. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
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    #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by ammarmalik2011 View Post
    It was the Scroogle campaign. That and the #droidrage campaign. They might not be a direct reason to end EAS support (and dropping app support for Win 8) but you can bet your bottom dollar that it was a big reason, even though both campaigns were childish and proved futile in the end, not to mention the spectacular backfiring of #droidrage. Why would Microsoft expect anything from Google now?
    You know, Google could start permanently banning anyone who uses a WP device and then make it public that anyone who switches to WP will forever be locked out of Google services. That would stop a lot of people migrating to our platform. Oh after they hack MS services and cause them all to stop functioning for good until MS re-codes them. Google aren't being childish in comparison to my ideas. Heck, even Scroogle and droidrage aren't as childish as my ideas would be.

    "Fortune cookie said: 'Outlook not so good'. I said: 'Sure, but Microsoft ships it anyway'."
  3. runam0k's Avatar
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    #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tahiti Bob View Post
    I'm in the UK and have tried to use Bing for search for close to a year and it's not even close to compete with Google. I think Microsoft has the US pretty much sorted but not much beyond that. Trying to leave a life without Google is just silly anyway, you can't replace YouTube and their search is unmatched (outside the US that is).
    Agreed. I'm in the UK and Google search results are just better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tahiti Bob View Post
    Another thing you can't replace is Google Reader. Sure you can use an RSS reader but GR syncs across any device you use. Going full on Google free is just crazy.
    Agree! Love Reader and haven't managed to find an alternative that works with a decent WP8 app.

    So Reader, search and YouTube all still key for me. Outlook is now my first choice for email though!
  4. arrowrand's Avatar
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    #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Paladinleeds View Post
    You know, Google could start permanently banning anyone who uses a WP device and then make it public that anyone who switches to WP will forever be locked out of Google services. That would stop a lot of people migrating to our platform.
    Yes, they certainly could do that, but that would subvert their plans to avoid antitrust issues with the gubment. Not to mention, they'd honk off the largest group of OS users in the world and turn them into perma-Bing users.

    The perfect response would have been "#droidrage, brought to you by the company that took malware mainstream". That would admit that malware on Android is a big issue when it isn't.

    It's huge for the people that experience it, but it's negative campaigning by MS and won't have much affect on Android.
  5. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
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    #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by arrowrand View Post
    Yes, they certainly could do that, but that would subvert their plans to avoid antitrust issues with the gubment. Not to mention, they'd honk off the largest group of OS users in the world and turn them into perma-Bing users.
    Fail to see how it would convert the largest user base into permanent Bing users if only windows phone users get banned and not windows pc users? As I don't see android users converting to Bing en masse.

    "Fortune cookie said: 'Outlook not so good'. I said: 'Sure, but Microsoft ships it anyway'."
  6. dba415's Avatar
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    #106  
    i will never be able to remove google from my life. I'd rather and it is much simpler to just stop using windows phone. Google search is so much better than bing, which is crap. I am unsure at how people think that bing is as good as Google, but for me, it is not even a worthwhile competitor.
  7. arrowrand's Avatar
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    #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by Paladinleeds View Post
    Fail to see how it would convert the largest user base into permanent Bing users if only windows phone users get banned and not windows pc users? As I don't see android users converting to Bing en masse.
    Assume that most people that buy WP devices are also Windows users. If Google blocked their access on WP, how likely are these people to use Google services on their laptop or desktop? Not likely at all.
  8. Napocensis's Avatar
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    #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminatic View Post
    I didn't see a twinkling smilie, but I suppose you meant this as a joke cause I really don't want to go into a discussion about which country has done which bad things in the past and present. We might hide money, but 1) I'm not personally hiding any in my cellar 2) We're not the only ones, even though media are making the world believe this and 3) The rest of the world were and are no angels either. You just need to check some history books or watch some good, well-researched documentaries to find out what I mean. I'm not going to talk about the things former non-Swiss have done and are doing to other people in this thread, because that would be completely off-subject and belongs to another forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    Yeah, right, MS is punishing Switzerland for having stayed neutral, but is rewarding Germany for having ... ehm... what was the role they played in WW2? You seriously need to get your brain fixed.

    And yeah... who would have the nerve to keep a lot of money in banks... outrageous! lol
    My friends, you need to chill! Who in their right mind would belive that Bing is undeveloped in Switzerland because of the wars... Just relax.
    Next time I quote you I will make sure I add a smiley face. I'm not going to add one now as it might just confuse you.
  9. Jalik's Avatar
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    #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminatic View Post
    Interesting. Word correction ion the Germam keyboard s the one thing that is working very well for me on WP. And others better in time as WP learns my specific vocabulary.
    Interesting indeed. What device are you using? I found that typing in landscape improves my German typing (not necessary for my English typing tho). So screen size might be relevant.
  10. Luminatic's Avatar
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       #110  
    An using a Lumia 920. I type a lot (SMS, Whatsapp ...) and I always make sure that my phone learns the words that it doesn't know (red underlined) and are correct in "my world" (e.g. Names or words in my dialect).
    Happy WP user :P
  11. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
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    #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by arrowrand View Post
    Assume that most people that buy WP devices are also Windows users. If Google blocked their access on WP, how likely are these people to use Google services on their laptop or desktop? Not likely at all.
    If Google blocks access to all their services to Windows Phone, that will be effectively the end of Windows Phone as it is. There are nearly a billion Gmail users alone, and probably well over billion who swear by Google search. Good luck trying to get them to switch over to Microsoft, who is synonymous with 'Hotmail'.
  12. Bearach's Avatar
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    #112  
    Deleted.
    Last edited by Bearach; 07-08-2013 at 08:02 PM.
  13. Luminatic's Avatar
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       #113  
    FYI - Curiosity got the best of me and I did a little comparison between bing search and google search, both on the local versions of the search tool (So I used google.ch and bing.ch as I live in Switzerland). I didn't change any options, trying to act like an average user.

    The search terms were: "google maps windows phone" (inspired by maps.google not working on windows phone).

    Outcome of bing.ch
    - Two advertisments on top, one from an U.S. company about shipping spartphones, another one from a mapping company about downloading apps
    - Old article regarding google maps on WP7 (Some articles from 2010, some not dated but oviously old) on page one
    - The same two advertisments on the bottom of the page like on top
    - Same picture on page 2
    - And finally, on page 3, one article regarding the issue of maps.google not working on WP.

    Outcome of google.ch
    - No advertisments (Don't know why? I've heard that some people get lots of advertisments on google pages ... maybe something to do with countries law)
    - A mix of older and very new articles regarding the same issue

    "Aaargh", was my first thought. Then I searched about the possibility of filtering by date in bing. I first found nothing, then I found the following in a forum by a user who had the same issue:


    The only work around I found was clicking on the news link after doing a search. Filter by date will appear. I think this limits the search to news and blogs sites though.
    I clicked on "News" in my bing search result window, and boom: There were all the news regarding "no google maps on windows phones" - only german language news, though (Haven't found out how to search both german and english or english only news). And you know what? I even have the possibility of choosing between "Latest" and "Best match". It doens't show as many results as google when choosing "latest", but I haven't actually checked if all the thousand results in google are relevant at all (too tired to do that now).

    Hey that's at least a workaround even though I think I should be able to filter by date on the main search page. Also, I would like to be able to search german and english news on the news search , and my world would even be a little better.
    Happy WP user :P
  14. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #114  
    To understand Google, you have to understand a couple of things:

    1) Google and its supporters love "tit for tat." They believe they can criticize and attack Microsoft, Apple, RIM or anyone else ceaselessly... but when MS fires back with DroidRage, that justifies the most unbelievable "retaliation."

    2) They overestimate their importance to the overall web. Search engines, e-mail, calendars and contacts are all generic functionality that is easily replaced. Android is a laggy, malware-laden, buggy half-baked clone of iOS that is easily replaced. And so on.

    3) They want to steal property from others, while asserting absolute property rights for themselves. When ISPs said they were considering putting a speed limiter on Google sites on their own private property -- their internet connections -- Google freaked out and screamed for "net neutrality." Yet they themselves are limiting access from OSes that they don't like to Google's own services and claiming "property rights." When Google wanted to use Microsoft, Apple, RIM and other IP, they refused to license it, but simply stole it -- and forced their OEMs who were promised a "free" OS to pay $30 to $50 per phone sold in IP licenses to Apple, Microsoft, RIM, Nokia, etc. Google claims that IP rights of other companies are "anti-competitive," yet they're asserting that APIs for web services designed to lock out competition are "private property." Google takes news articles and even books written by others and copies them -- free of payment -- to host on its own site so that it can profit from ad sales on other people's uncompensated work... yet it also talks about how "Microsoft shouldn't expect a free ride."

    I think Google is going to learn that they're not as irreplaceable as they seem to think. They've certainly twisted themselves up in the pretzel logic that plagues the most arrogant of companies in tech. Even Microsoft, at the height of its power, wasn't this arrogant and tone-deaf.
  15. Luminatic's Avatar
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       #115  
    @brmiller
    Just my opinion ... younger people might not remember internet without google, but it existed. When I first tried out the interent in the nineties, google didn't exist. You used other search tools (I remember searching with yahoo or alta vista, and there were search engines you could install on your computer). Therefore, there was a live before google. Conclusion: There is also a live after google. At the moment, google doesn't seem to remember that fact.

    I just hope googles stunts don't hurt MS or the OEMs too much before google starts crumbling under its own weight ... me and you might not like google, their behaviour or their products, but they're sellling ****loads of android devices right now.
    Happy WP user :P
    a5cent and Laura Knotek like this.
  16. irvin792's Avatar
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    #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    To understand Google, you have to understand a couple of things:

    1) Google and its supporters love "tit for tat." They believe they can criticize and attack Microsoft, Apple, RIM or anyone else ceaselessly... but when MS fires back with DroidRage, that justifies the most unbelievable "retaliation."

    2) They overestimate their importance to the overall web. Search engines, e-mail, calendars and contacts are all generic functionality that is easily replaced. Android is a laggy, malware-laden, buggy half-baked clone of iOS that is easily replaced. And so on.

    3) They want to steal property from others, while asserting absolute property rights for themselves. When ISPs said they were considering putting a speed limiter on Google sites on their own private property -- their internet connections -- Google freaked out and screamed for "net neutrality." Yet they themselves are limiting access from OSes that they don't like to Google's own services and claiming "property rights." When Google wanted to use Microsoft, Apple, RIM and other IP, they refused to license it, but simply stole it -- and forced their OEMs who were promised a "free" OS to pay $30 to $50 per phone sold in IP licenses to Apple, Microsoft, RIM, Nokia, etc. Google claims that IP rights of other companies are "anti-competitive," yet they're asserting that APIs for web services designed to lock out competition are "private property." Google takes news articles and even books written by others and copies them -- free of payment -- to host on its own site so that it can profit from ad sales on other people's uncompensated work... yet it also talks about how "Microsoft shouldn't expect a free ride."

    I think Google is going to learn that they're not as irreplaceable as they seem to think. They've certainly twisted themselves up in the pretzel logic that plagues the most arrogant of companies in tech. Even Microsoft, at the height of its power, wasn't this arrogant and tone-deaf.
    Excellent post
  17. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #117  
    Even Samsung is backing away from Google. They're shipping more WPs this year, for sure, but even more interestingly, they're putting most of their effort behind Tizen and making Tizen their best-selling OS. Google's pissing them off with the Motorola/Google "X Phone," and that's silly, considering that Samsung is the company that made Android a big seller, and Google left them hanging (even testifying against them in Apple's IP case).

    This sort of arrogance adds up fast, and the outcome can be as unexpected and chaotic as anything you can imagine.

    I don't know how Google will get its **** kicked, but it will definitely happen, and in a way that few of us could imagine, at a time that might be surprising.
    cedarlog likes this.
  18. travisel's Avatar
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    #118  
    I tell people all the time just "Bing" it! 😎

    I use Bing more then Google then Yahoo....in fact I use Yahoo more then Google as my search engine! I don't get all these sheep? People rather just fallow each other instead of trying something new and better! 😎
    ATIV S is LIFE
    cedarlog likes this.
  19. TonyDedrick's Avatar
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    #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by travisel View Post
    I tell people all the time just "Bing" it! 😎

    I use Bing more then Google then Yahoo....in fact I use Yahoo more then Google as my search engine! I don't get all these sheep? People rather just fallow each other instead of trying something new and better! 😎
    Or people just use the products they want or feel is best for them. Not sure why anyone has to be a sheep simply because they don't use the same services you do.
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  20. Luminatic's Avatar
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       #120  
    Travisel, have you read this thread? For some of us, google search just deliver better results.

    I don't know why I (and others) have to explain this over and over again and STILL are being asked why we don't use an alternative to google. Aaaargh!

    .
    P.S. I've just checked this http://www.microsoft.com/athome/orga...id=tngF-RM2RuW and saw what bing could be like .... if MS would act like a global company should and TRY THEIR BEST TO MAKE THOSE GREAT FEATURES available to the rest of the world.

    Sheesh, I think I REALLY need to mail MS about this. I just hope that my effort is being appreciated.
    Last edited by Luminatic; 01-05-2013 at 01:46 AM.
    Happy WP user :P
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    Chregu 
  21. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
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    #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by travisel View Post
    I tell people all the time just "Bing" it! 
    I bet they look at you with blank faces after that
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  22. irvin792's Avatar
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    #122  
    I find Bing to be much better than google.
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  23. Chregu's Avatar
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    #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by irvin792 View Post
    I find Bing to be much better than google.
    I'm certain you live in an area with a lot of mountains or hills, judging from you're horizon. I'm also pretty sure these hills or mountains are located in the USA, as Bing is pretty good there.

    Sadly, billions of other people are not in the USA, and Microsoft is still selling its phone OS there.
  24. irvin792's Avatar
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    #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chregu View Post
    I'm certain you live in an area with a lot of mountains or hills, judging from you're horizon. I'm also pretty sure these hills or mountains are located in the USA, as Bing is pretty good there.

    Sadly, billions of other people are not in the USA, and Microsoft is still selling its phone OS there.
    guilty as charged :(
  25. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    #125  
    Bing is competitive, and getting better by the day.

    With Google deliberately crippling and blocking competing operating systems as of late, who is to say that Google search won't do the same thing (or isn't doing it already)?

    That search for an article criticizing Google might show... nothing at all. That search for "crashing Android" might return results that point to fan sites that insist that Android doesn't crash, rather than to pages that could help someone with a crashed/bricked Android phone.

    And so on.

    Once Google crossed the rubicon of "close off, lock out and exclude," they called everything they do and present into question. If they're willing to block devices that are inconvenient or that they don't like, they're also more than likely willing to block or exclude search results that they also don't like.

    Make sure you keep those links to Bing, Yandex, etc. handy.
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