- 11-19-2012, 10:53 AM #53
And regarding Windows phone 8... all they do is point out what WP8 can't do that Android and iOS can do.--Laura Knotek (formerly known as lak611)
- 11-19-2012, 04:18 PM #54
It's just that IMHO, many people still think Vista was a terrible OS, nobody but Microsoft was to blame, and Windows 7 was infinitely superior. I'm just trying to change that sentiment, which is why I tend to stand on the other side of the argument.
I place most of the blame for the Vista debacle on a failed business model... a PC OS business model that requires Microsoft, hundreds of PC makers, and thousands of hardware developers across the globe to work together, flawlessly, and on time. It has never worked. It never will work. It has repeatedly prevented Microsoft from innovating in the OS space, at least on anything that goes beyond desktop background colors and icon images, as Microsoft knows full well they will take the blame, should any on of those thousands of participants not be involving themselves to the degree consumers expect. The Vista debacle was the result of Microsoft realizing that many low-level changes could be postponed no longer, if Microsoft was to stick around for the long haul.
BTW: Interestingly, Android has a very similar OS business model (although on a smaller scale), while Windows RT is Microsoft's first step in attempt to free themselves from those shackles.
- Windows 8 and Windows RT were primarily Sinofsky's vision, not Ballmer's.
- Ballmer wasn't a fan of the metro UI and initially campaigned against it.
- the biggest innovations at Microsoft were developed entirely from the bottom-up (by individual engineers, creative-directors and lead-designers).
All of that is hearsay, but I'm hearing a lot of it and little to the contrary. I have yet to hear of anything visionary directly attributed to Mr. Ballmer himself. That is why I don't feel it is a huge stretch to claim Ballmer doesn't have a vision, but lets face it, most people (including managers) aren't visionaries. I suspect Ballmer has a vision that relates to corporate structure and management styles, but I doubt he has a vision that relates directly to their products and ecosystem. I suspect Ballmer is perfectly fine letting others develop that vision for him. Despite this, I still feel Ballmer has done rather well.
Either way, you really need to stop interpreting my challenges to your "facts" as personal attacks on you. You can say whatever you want, but when you are wrong, your statements aren't worth two cents, they are worth nothing, and you should rejoice in standing corrected. Apparently my writing style doesn't suite everyone, but it isn't my intent to offend. All in all, the community is better off when inaccuracies are challenged, right?
- 11-19-2012, 04:58 PM #56
When I make a thread it's not to be harsh on anyone, but I am pointing out things that I have read, heard or seen. Every OS has flaws, but really when every journal has articles on major problems with Windows powered devices... you can't say that it's a successful launch...
- 11-19-2012, 05:16 PM #57
When Apple announced that it had sold 4.5 million Macs in a quarter (a new record), the tech press hailed the announcement as "the beginning of the end for Windows," which sold about 120 million PCs in the same quarter.
When Microsoft sells 5 million Windows 8 upgrades and new licenses in a single weekend, the tech press declares that Microsoft is dead and Apple is destined to rule.
It's all rather silly. Outside of the Bay Area and New York enclaves, Macintosh is insignificant. And iOS is merely one of several players. People need to step outside of the Apple bubble and think carefully about what makes sense for the majority of users.
Users in a terrible economy aren't going to spend thousands of dollars to switch to an incompatible, more expensive Apple product. That alone means that Microsoft will continue to dominate. And as new Metro apps come online for Windows 8, the pressure to upgrade will grow more significant.
Windows 8 (and Phone 8) is a paradigm shift, which is why most of the industry doesn't get it. It's as big and bold a change in UI as Apple's move to switch from CLIs to GUIs was in the early 1980s. And the industry's reaction to W8 today is identical to the reaction to the Mac and "that weird mouse thingy and toy-like interface not made for real work." In fact, John C. Dvorak is still around to explain to us why a touch-friendly, information-centric UI is vastly inferior to the obsolete WIMP paradigm... just as he said "The Macintosh uses an experimental pointing device called a 'mouse'. There is no evidence that people want to use these things" back in January of 1984.
- 11-19-2012, 05:27 PM #58--Laura Knotek (formerly known as lak611)
- 11-19-2012, 06:54 PM #60
> "The company is slowly losing profits year after year"
I think the financials show this isn't true. You ignore it.
> "IE 10, which is supposed to be awesome since it's brand new, is still behind Google Chrome for the HTML5"
None of the sites you listed go beyond comparing the simple numbers spit out by HTML5 compatibility-test-sites which are, by themselves, completely meaningless. What truly would be unacceptable is if IE10 failed to support the overwhelming majority of what is considered the "stable" HTML5 spec. But that isn't the case. Attempting to explain why it makes sense for IE10 not to support all of the incomplete HTML5 spec goes far beyond what the average consumer is willing to pay attention to. That is why you will never read anything of the sort on consumer oriented website. It is with good reason IE10 is the way it is, and it has been explained to a large degree. Yet you ignore it.
> "Really I don't know why so many people are behind that guy who just keeps dragging the company down..."
Yes, Ballmer isn't perfect, but he certainly deserves the chance he is getting now and people have explained why they think so. You seem to happily ignore every point brought to your attention.
Why should anyone converse with you, if you don't intend to engage in any real discussion? It makes the impression you are all about the negativity and not interested in learning.
The people who work at theverge, cnet, etc aren't experts in any sense of the word. Anyone with some enthusiasm for technology could get a job there. They have a very one sided and shallow consumer oriented view of the world, which isn't a view Microsoft can afford to share. In contrast to Apple, Microsoft (and the Linux community) isn't exclusively in the business of developing toys (okay, that is somewhat overstated for effect). As a result, Microsoft must cater to two markets simultaneously. So, if someone isn't telling you the entire truth, are they lying? That is basically what all of those sites you listed are doing. You only get the consumer perspective. Even if that is the only perspective you care about, I still think it isn't correct to criticized someone before walking a mile in their shoes. Understanding Microsoft obviously takes a lot more effort than ridiculing them, and it will get those sites less page hits, so why bother?
- 11-19-2012, 08:36 PM #61
I understand all that, but I truly believe that Steve Ballmer is not the guy that Microsoft needs and if he has to stay... then find someone else to promote the products and put Steve Ballmer in charge of the rest....
I'd be a thousand times happier to see a guy like Ben Rudolf go on stage than Steve Ballmer... Ben Rudolf has manners and he is convincing, while Steve Ballmer is like a raging pitbull (nothing against those dogs), you want to switch to another channel when he's given an interview. (They got rid of Sinofsky which was a smart move IMO)
- 11-20-2012, 06:55 AM #62My next phone...
- 11-20-2012, 07:10 AM #63My next phone...
- 11-20-2012, 03:46 PM #65
Apple leveraged its digital music distribution monopoly to take over the MP3 player market and lock out most competing smart devices from mainstream digital music for YEARS. Not a peep -- in fact, people defended Apple when it caused iTunes to break integration with Palm devices. (Imagine if Microsoft had updated Windows specifically to break iTunes or iPod syncing or to kick Macs off the corporate network... the screams of rage would have been deafening).
Microsoft has been held to different standards than everyone else, holding back its ability to innovate for years (for fear of a successful product that would further marginalize less effective competitors). It took ten years of straightjacketing Microsoft, beating the crap out of it and locking it in the basement to even allow the Apples and Googles of the world to catch up. The question is whether the old, innovative and aggressive Microsoft can compete with all the stumbling blocks thrown in its way by "anti-monopolists" who simultaneously sing the praises of Google and Apple's monopolies.
- 11-20-2012, 05:26 PM #66
Microsoft needs to go premium.
11-20-2012, 05:38 PM #67
- 443 Posts
- 11-20-2012, 06:00 PM #68
- 11-20-2012, 06:02 PM #70
Those reviews you refer to were written before the first wave of o/s updates were released. Do you mean to say when the very first iPad was released it was in its polished form we see today? Even now some of your beloved Apple products are plagued with bugs - just look at the laundry list of complaints from the iPhone 5. And they've had four generations to get it perfect - and they're the only vendor that makes the bloody product. ****, an entire line of MacBook pro was recalled because of defective retinal displays.
Try to remove your lips from Cook's hiney for a while.My next phone...
- 11-20-2012, 06:14 PM #71
Keep 'em coming. This is fun.My next phone...
- 11-20-2012, 06:20 PM #72
Apple makes high quality products, while Microsoft makes low budget products...
Have you used one of the "retina" MacBook "Pro" units with the high-res displays powered by the Intel HD4000 integrated graphics?
Who, other than Apple, would dare to release a high-res "pro" machine running with a netbook graphics chipset?
Worst of all, the Apple guys will use the "quality" argument and then convince themselves that they don't need adequate speed/performance for the machine they just dropped $3K for. While the "budget" Dell or Vizio or HP machine that is 1/3 the price has a decent chipset connected to a high-res display and outperforms the Apple machine in, frankly, every way.
for resolution, speakers volume and lag free OS, Apple won again
Now, grab any old Dell or HP laptop for $1,000 with an ATI or Nvidia card and run the same title in "maximum settings." It will crank by at 30 FPS or better.
Then we can discuss "lag" and "resolution."
How many times have we seen reviews saying that the surface kept crashing when launching apps or that the Keyboard was poor quality.
Microsoft needs to go premium.
I have a MacBook Pro... a "premium Apple laptop." It's crap. Overpriced crap. It's pretty when running the few apps that OS X supports, but once you start to do anything even remotely demanding -- like light gaming or video editing -- the fan kicks in and the OS slows down. It's got a slow graphics chipset, a slow hard drive, and cost way, way too much. I don't see how that's a "premium" product (other than the Apple people constantly insisting that it is, and that I "don't need" to edit video or play games).
- 11-20-2012, 06:30 PM #73
Microsoft does not make its own laptops...
Also, the Retina does not have a HD4000 in it.... it has a NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M which can run StarCraft 2, Max Payne 3, Dragon Age II, Darkside, F.E.A.R 3 and many more games...
Last edited by Simon Tupper; 11-20-2012 at 06:59 PM.
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