[mister2d]

Can we get some developer interest for a VOIP SIP Windows Phone application?

I did some perusing of Microsoft's Windows Phone developer site and it appears Microsoft built a great deal of support for a VOIP client into Windows Phone 8.

In this February 1, 2013 blog entry Microsoft says:

Applies to: Windows Phone 8 only

With Windows Phone 8 you can create apps that implement voice over IP (VoIP), and which gives a user the ability to engage in video or audio calls over the phone’s network connection. When the user installs your VoIP app, the app shows up in the user’s App list like any other app. However, when an incoming call arrives for a VoIP app, the built-in phone experience is shown, and the VoIP app appears integrated into the phone.

VoIP apps for Windows Phone 8


Here is a illustration of the VOIP app architecture:







And here is a link to a sample VOIP app with source code as provided by Microsoft
Windows Phone ChatterBox VoIP sample app in C#, C++ for Visual Studio 2012


It seems Microsoft really did do a lot of leg work already, there just needs to be a developer to dive in! I'll be the first to help test your application. I use a VOIP solution via voip.ms that I would love to try on my Windows Phone.

[cmilian]

Did you get a reply? I need this also :)

[mister2d]

No reply yet! I'm hoping someone creates something.

[cmilian]

I would be so happy with a step by step on implementing VOIP server IP and Port , Account, Pin and Caller ID feature!
That's all i need :)

[mister2d]

Just buy any VoIP service, like. (voip.ms) and buy an Ata, like any of the Obihai devices from Amazon. Use the web portal to configure everything. Real easy.

[cmilian]

I need this for my own server.

[mister2d]

I'm not following. You can use this setup with your own gear.

[PhantomNZ]

Sure you can, but an ATA isn't a VoIP client for a phone now is it. Can't be carrying around an ATA and another phone wherever you go.

I also want this, had a look at making one myself but I couldn't get it to work properly with the available SIP libraries.

[mobiledivide]

I'm really hoping for an app or this service to be built in soon. Coming from Symbian and then iOS, SIP phone calling has been part of my mobile experience for 7 years. The widespread availability of apps like Bria on Android and iOS makes this one of the GLARING shortcomings for WP8 business users.

[tomprofan]

I would immediatly buy 100 licenses to connect to my alcatel pbx if one is usable....

[foxbat121]

The design of this VoIP architecture is modernized to save battery life on smartphones by utilizing push notification mechanism instead of listening to a network socket calls. This is how Skype app implemented today on WP8. However, this also means you need setup your own push notification server to act as a proxy client to SIP server. This is probably where the complication comes. Developers need to develop, setup and maintain their own push notification server. That will be a huge task for individual developers, IMO.

[ChMar]

It's kind of risky to start developing a voip client when mass consumers use whatsapp viber tango google voice or skype for their communications need. You still need to pay the developper acount some phones to test then pay the security certificates to pass the 500 per day push notifications limits then buy you a cloud account for the infrastructure. After all those cost will the app sell in the end? Because most will want a free version (they allready pay their sip charges) so in the end you need to drive it with ads and for this you need large number of users and it's still not worth it(I hate ads supported apps). Since I belive that sip clients demand is not that big to at least recover the costs from the development yet make a small profit. Mind you that is not that is hard but there are costs and the way android users were teach apps should be free so those costs(all are recuring costs: dev accounts, security certificates, cloud subscriptions) are some investement one would not make just to try the waters. Look at vlc player (just a movie player after all) it needed $40,000 on kickstarter to start its development process for wp8 and windows 8. And they don't need security certificates and cloud computing for that. So if you really want those sip clients a different economic model is needed. Just have some donations raised and then take see the development take form. Otherwise there is too much risk and too many costs involved

[andrew120]

Good answer!

Some paragraphs would be handy though :)

It's kind of risky to start developing a voip client when mass consumers use whatsapp viber tango google voice or skype for their communications need. You still need to pay the developper acount some phones to test then pay the security certificates to pass the 500 per day push notifications limits then buy you a cloud account for the infrastructure. After all those cost will the app sell in the end? Because most will want a free version (they allready pay their sip charges) so in the end you need to drive it with ads and for this you need large number of users and it's still not worth it(I hate ads supported apps). Since I belive that sip clients demand is not that big to at least recover the costs from the development yet make a small profit. Mind you that is not that is hard but there are costs and the way android users were teach apps should be free so those costs(all are recuring costs: dev accounts, security certificates, cloud subscriptions) are some investement one would not make just to try the waters. Look at vlc player (just a movie player after all) it needed $40,000 on kickstarter to start its development process for wp8 and windows 8. And they don't need security certificates and cloud computing for that. So if you really want those sip clients a different economic model is needed. Just have some donations raised and then take see the development take form. Otherwise there is too much risk and too many costs involved

[foxbat121]

About VLC player, I tried its Android player on my Android phones. And if that is something to come in WP marketplace, you won't like it at all:

Google blocked VLC player in US market. You have to download it from VLC website and side load it. I fully expect Microsoft will do the same when WP8/W8 versions come out. And there is no easy way to side load them on these platforms. The core issue here, from what I know, is the licensing issue (or lack there of from VLC).

[andrew120]

I am senior developer, I would be interested to develop this but I do not have access to a VOIP service.

[foxbat121]

There are free VOIP services you can sign up as long as you don't plan to call land line. There are also some SIP phone URLs you can call for testing.

[paulheu]

About VLC player, I tried its Android player on my Android phones. And if that is something to come in WP marketplace, you won't like it at all:

Google blocked VLC player in US market. You have to download it from VLC website and side load it. I fully expect Microsoft will do the same when WP8/W8 versions come out. And there is no easy way to side load them on these platforms. The core issue here, from what I know, is the licensing issue (or lack there of from VLC).

There's a pretty good 'throw anything at it' player available for WIN8/RT right now in mobile.HD and it would not surprise me to see them come to WP8 as well. One problem woud be file access I guess which is more or less locked down. Other that that Plex works just fine for me..

[ChMar]

Look also at app campus from nokia. See games made with $20,000 budget. And consider the effort to make a good app(no crashes, good performance, low battery consumtion). Huge effort that requires server infrastructure and phones(plural) to test and make a good app. And in the end while iphone mentality is toward buying apps android is not. And windows phone people are a mix between a low precentage of iphone users and a larger ex-android user base. So I would not even phantom a good app without $50,000 as capital (phones, dev computers, artists, programmers, server infrastructure).
As for vlc player now that they have capital its a different story. They can afford to spend time on app and not stay all day on dashboard to tune ads to get some more money for development.

I belive right now that the best for this platform are new ideeas(more invotaion and less let's copy android or iphone apps) with crowd founding. This way you get needed apps(not brand apps, those are different story) and don't have to resort to ads and small improvements to retain profitability.

And if you trully want a sip client be bold. Form a team apply to nokia app campus get funding for your project and get going. It's a moment when people with entrepenorial spirit have some room to maneuvre. Not all sort of apps are manageable without founding and full work day devotion and with just a person who is both developer and artist.

[foxbat121]

There's a pretty good 'throw anything at it' player available for WIN8/RT right now in mobile.HD and it would not surprise me to see them come to WP8 as well. One problem woud be file access I guess which is more or less locked down. Other that that Plex works just fine for me..

Just tried this mobile.HD app on my Win8 Surface. Other than mkv support, it does not add anything new, codec wise, to RT that other free media players (or the built in media players) can't. It still won't play anything that is MPEG2 which I would like to use for streaming my cable TV video directly from my network tuner. That' why I was interested in VLC player in the first place. VLC player on the Android can play the live streaming of HD MPEG2 stream with some limitations (like audio is 2 seconds behind).

[mister2d]

The design of this VoIP architecture is modernized to save battery life on smartphones by utilizing push notification mechanism instead of listening to a network socket calls. This is how Skype app implemented today on WP8. However, this also means you need setup your own push notification server to act as a proxy client to SIP server. This is probably where the complication comes. Developers need to develop, setup and maintain their own push notification server. That will be a huge task for individual developers, IMO.

It's kind of risky to start developing a voip client when mass consumers use whatsapp viber tango google voice or skype for their communications need. You still need to pay the developper acount some phones to test then pay the security certificates to pass the 500 per day push notifications limits then buy you a cloud account for the infrastructure. After all those cost will the app sell in the end? Because most will want a free version (they allready pay their sip charges) so in the end you need to drive it with ads and for this you need large number of users and it's still not worth it(I hate ads supported apps). Since I belive that sip clients demand is not that big to at least recover the costs from the development yet make a small profit. Mind you that is not that is hard but there are costs and the way android users were teach apps should be free so those costs(all are recuring costs: dev accounts, security certificates, cloud subscriptions) are some investement one would not make just to try the waters. Look at vlc player (just a movie player after all) it needed $40,000 on kickstarter to start its development process for wp8 and windows 8. And they don't need security certificates and cloud computing for that. So if you really want those sip clients a different economic model is needed. Just have some donations raised and then take see the development take form. Otherwise there is too much risk and too many costs involved

So, develop your app so that I can push my own notifications and push the cost off to me as an option. I can use EC2 or my own gear.

I am senior developer, I would be interested to develop this but I do not have access to a VOIP service.

I use voip.ms, which is highly regarded, and very cheap.

[ChMar]

So, develop your app so that I can push my own notifications and push the cost off to me as an option. I can use EC2 or my own gear.

I use voip.ms, which is highly regarded, and very cheap.

Can't be done. App is made at the same time with the server cloud component(I would personaly choose azure platform because of some mobile stuff allready implemented there). It's not something you do 1 hour a day after work. It's a full time project. And the testing involved (multiple phones, combinations of wi-fi or celular data, voip accounts with money on them) after the development is enourmous. 6 month full time job. You must have and risk a lot of money and time (take time off from job etc) just to find people are not buying and demand a free version (which they mostly use with notifications so your app is not viewed and so can't be sustained with adds).

As I stated I see only 2 ways for this to be done. Either crowd funding for development and testing or going for the nokia app campus route and hope they aprove such an project.

[mister2d]

Thanks. I appreciate you explaining it further. Although I am not a developer, I do not subscribe to the "can't be done" mentality. Something creative should be possible to defray development costs.

Also, keep in mind, a full on VOIP client isn't targetted at the whatsapp, viber, tango, crowd. A VOIP client would be more appropriate for business. There is a market out there. I think it just has to be explored and put out there a bit better.

Windows Phone in the business workplace would certainly help. What's interesting is that Symbian phones had a voip client built in.

[mobiledivide]

Thank you ChMar for the clear replies. I am surprised that neither Microsoft nor Nokia have thought of SIP as a must have built in app. I would think there is a business case for this...

[erchiappa]

I'll give it a try

[ChMar]

Thanks. I appreciate you explaining it further. Although I am not a developer, I do not subscribe to the "can't be done" mentality. Something creative should be possible to defray development costs.

Also, keep in mind, a full on VOIP client isn't targetted at the whatsapp, viber, tango, crowd. A VOIP client would be more appropriate for business. There is a market out there. I think it just has to be explored and put out there a bit better.

Windows Phone in the business workplace would certainly help. What's interesting is that Symbian phones had a voip client built in.

It's not about creativity to defrain cost. It's about development budget and risk. A quality app and not a nother flip coin app takes full-time comitment, money and equpiment. And when I said it can't be done I was refering about using a client cloud for push notifications so you get the costs cut down. That is not a solution because of how the platform works, alot of techo bable :)

Microsoft is trying to do less 1st party apps so that 3rd party developers have room to create their solutions. That has allways been their aproach(minus office suite and some CRM attempt) to make the os the development tools and create oportunities for other to win on their platform. Because they can just sell the platform. So I doubt they will ever make a SIP client so it's up to third party developers.

If enough people are interested about this I'll make an app campus application for development budget at nokia. But I must have some ideea first of how big a demand is for such an app.