[stmav]

We are going with the spirit defense now? Nice.

[Ordeith]

Skype Premium - $9 a month. Hangouts - $0 a month. Hangouts wins. The latter is also much smoother on lower bandwidth connections. Hangouts is usable over 3G for me, Skype can barely maintain audio clarity, never mind keep up with video.

Also, $9 may not seem like much to most people, but here in India where I pay $20 for 10 Mbps unlimited broadband, it's quite a bit.

Google also comes with free wiretapping and call recording with government reporting features. Who wouldn't want that?

Oh, and to use it on a mobile device you also need to have one that is infested with Google's invasive spyware.

Google's current business model is based on the realization that people don't really mind spyware as long as it comes with services. 96% of their revenue is in jeopardy if that ever changes.

[Nataku4ca]

what i read a week or two ago was that a Google representative came out and said that they have no plans to make apps for WindowsPhone and Windows 8 because of it's low market share, so I side with the OP, god damn double standard... not sure how BB10 will do, but I sure as **** don't see it making any significant impact initially, may be end of the year it might?

[dba415]

face it though, Windows Phone will never take off without Google support. Google is the most used internet company if you talk about everything that they offer. Google is trying to kill Windows Phone and I am believing that it's working and Microsoft can't do anything to stop it.

[Cleveland2k]

We have Skype, which imo is more mainstream anyways. Why does anyone care about Google talk.

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

The funny thing is, I'm willing to pay for Skype Premium. I don't mind. If people will only use Google+ Hangouts to video call me, I just won't video call them period. I have zero interest in Google+ as a whole. I use Facebook for my main social network, and Twitter as a secondary.

[koolkid09]

Google also comes with free wiretapping and call recording with government reporting features. Who wouldn't want that?

Oh, and to use it on a mobile device you also need to have one that is infested with Google's invasive spyware.

Google's current business model is based on the realization that people don't really mind spyware as long as it comes with services. 96% of their revenue is in jeopardy if that ever changes.

Lol

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

[ohgood]

Google also comes with free wiretapping and call recording with government reporting features. Who wouldn't want that?

Oh, and to use it on a mobile device you also need to have one that is infested with Google's invasive spyware.

Google's current business model is based on the realization that people don't really mind spyware as long as it comes with services. 96% of their revenue is in jeopardy if that ever changes.

Ok, I'm calling you out, that's just plain lying. Prove me wrong.

No, quoting 500 page conspiracy blogs about random mumblings does not count. Proooooove it.

[ohgood]

So, I found this article about Google integrating Google Talk into BB10 at launch: BB 10 Twitter and Google Talk app integration leaks ahead of launch

If I remember correctly, doesn't RIM have lower market numbers than WP8? I feel like there's a double standard being played here from Google. Thoughts from anyone else?

Microsoft: android SUCKS !
Google: bwuuuuh ? Blinks
Microsoft: give us free apps for our mobile platform !
Google: lol
Microsoft: not fair !!!
...
RIM: heeeeeeeeeey guuuuuys, I'm baaaaaaack !
Microsoft: there's only one turd and its all for me !!!
RIM: Spell check ftw, I just stole third AND your lunch.

Coming to a theatre near you in summer 2013.

[ImmortalWarrior]

Serious question... Who the **** uses Google+?

I'm just thankful I had an older YouTube account before they forced you to integrate with that spyware service.

[Ordeith]

Ok, I'm calling you out, that's just plain lying. Prove me wrong.

No, quoting 500 page conspiracy blogs about random mumblings does not count. Proooooove it.

LOL. You think Google gives out services for free out of Kindness?

You think they paid for Obama's inauguration with user goodwill?

I would call some Chinese bloggers in as witnesses but they are unfortunately deceased after Google turned their identities over to their government.

Not wanting to believe in Google's business model and government ties doesn't make them nonexistant.

[ohgood]

LOL. You think Google gives out services for free out of Kindness?

You think they paid for Obama's inauguration with user goodwill?

I would call some Chinese bloggers in as witnesses but they are unfortunately deceased after Google turned their identities over to their government.

Not wanting to believe in Google's business model and government ties doesn't make them nonexistant.

So, no proof ?

[bawboh86]

Serious question... Who the **** uses Google+?

I'm just thankful I had an older YouTube account before they forced you to integrate with that spyware service.

I use Google+. I honestly believe it's better than Facebook, although, since picking up a WP8 device I've been on Facebook A LOT more (the FB app for Android SUCKS). Anywho, I'm also a software dev and photographer, and Google+ is apparently a haven for both, so go figure.

[Dave Blake]

So, no proof ?

Your Proof,

https://sites.google.com/site/net205...business-model

I will quote 3 parts to shorten the read.

"Google generated about $21 billion in revenue last year. The vast majority of that revenue, well over 95%, comes from advertising via its search engine and its AdSense program, which places ads on millions of websites" (Parr, n.d.).

Google AdSense

"Google believes relevant advertising can be as useful as search results or other forms of content" (Google Business Overview, n.d.). To this end, Google has developed the AdSense program to enhance the user's experience to a website. While utilising the technologies behind Google Search, AdSense uses keywords to precisely target results so advertising content is delivered based on page content. Google believes "advertisers, publishers, and information seekers all profit as a result (Google Business Overview, n.d.).

Google AdWords

In combination with AdSense Google developed the "AdWords [program] for advertisers who want to reach a qualified audience as efficiently as possible" (Google Business Overview, n.d.).

Customers have needs, wants and nice-to-haves and traditional business models fulfil these for their customers. Google offers its customers needs, wants, and nice-to-haves for free (Pollard, n.d.). In return, whether knowingly or not, users create data whilst using Google services and products which creates information that is listed in the Google Search Engine; advertisement is then tailored based on the content delivered.

Key phrase "whether knowingly or not, users create data whilst using Google services and products"

That's just a nice way of saying they are tracking and compiling data based on your use of there services and products. All of them, nothing is free, you use Google services in exchange for your right to privacy.

[arrowrand]

I would call some Chinese bloggers in as witnesses but they are unfortunately deceased after Google turned their identities over to their government.

That was Yahoo.

[arrowrand]

]
Key phrase "whether knowingly or not, users create data whilst using Google

Whether you know it or not (and I'll allow that you probably do know) Microsoft does the exact same thing.

Go to advertising.Microsoft.com and read all about it.

Yes, Google knows lots and lots of stuff about me. Not everything, but lots. The more I use my Lumia and Bing with it, the more Microsoft knows about me for targeting their ads.

Microsoft is a software company that also has their own fledgling ad network. An ad network that can't target ads to users is worthless.

[arrowrand]

If I remember correctly, doesn't RIM have lower market numbers than WP8? I feel like there's a double standard being played here from Google. Thoughts from anyone else?

Sadly, I used to have a Blackberry. All of the instant messaging apps for BB are developed by RIM. They have gTalk, Yahoo IM, MSN and AIM.

Google discontinued all of their apps for BlackBerry while I still had it. Gmail, Gmail for Apps, Google Voice and Google Sync were all put to death before I moved to Android.

[Morq]

Some people mentioned that ms should implement google talk support for their phone themselves.
That'll not happen, first of all just look and see at what google does all the time now. I'm pretty sure that as soon as app would hit market Google would "do some required software upgrade" that would **** windows phone over because "something's not good enough in the phone".
Another problem is that unlike RIM Microsoft does have its own searching engine which they constantly developing and using competition's solution would be clear admittance of defeat.

Also, who the **** uses googletalk anyway?
Also2, third party devs can always make googletalk app, so one will be released one day or another
Also3, seeing how MS is implementing Skype on w8 it might be a good thing they won't be doing gTalk lol
Also4, since when **** is a swear word that it needs filtered out? :D

[ohgood]

Whether you know it or not (and I'll allow that you probably do know) Microsoft does the exact same thing.

Go to advertising.Microsoft.com and read all about it.

Yes, Google knows lots and lots of stuff about me. Not everything, but lots. The more I use my Lumia and Bing with it, the more Microsoft knows about me for targeting their ads.

Microsoft is a software company that also has their own fledgling ad network. An ad network that can't target ads to users is worthless.

Bingo!

[Dave Blake]

Whether you know it or not (and I'll allow that you probably do know) Microsoft does the exact same thing.

Go to advertising.Microsoft.com and read all about it.

Yes, Google knows lots and lots of stuff about me. Not everything, but lots. The more I use my Lumia and Bing with it, the more Microsoft knows about me for targeting their ads.

Microsoft is a software company that also has their own fledgling ad network. An ad network that can't target ads to users is worthless.

Bingo!

No Microsoft does not you are wrong. That is not the question that was asked but I will address it anyways.

"Would you like to help Microsoft improve its services"

Have you ever seen this before? It us always fallowed by a "Yes or No" if you haven't seen this then you don't use Microsoft services. This is where you make the choice to allow that program to use your data. Here is the difference between Microsoft selling software and Google selling advertising. Each service on Microsoft collects its own data to be used to improve that application only. Your data is not shared across the services its not needed. Microsoft touch keyboard program collects your data to help you type better. Bing collects your data to make your Bing searches more accurate. Every bit of data Google collects is shared across all the Google services so that they can advertise to you more directly. They do this by monitoring every word you type in your email. They collect and monitor every word you type on Google+. Google never gives you any way to opt out. I pay $15 a year to have the adds removed from my Outlook account and I chose "NO" that means no one is monitoring my emails at all. Lets see you do that on Gmail.


We have this same conversation over and over with the same people. Google and Microsoft have 2 different business models. Google sells adds to do that they tracks everything you do on all their services and will not give you the option. Microsoft will track you using your data to improve services if you allow it but Microsoft sells software. You can subscribe to almost every service Microsoft offers. You can also opt out of data collection. HERE is the big one Microsoft services don't share data. <That's a period right there.


Its time to stop the bate and switch or maybe you need to do a little research so you know what you are talking about.

What Microsoft does is not "the exact same thing" if you don't know that you better do some research for your own good.

[arrowrand]

"Would you like to help Microsoft improve its services"

I use Bing, Bing Maps, SkyDrive, Outlook and Office Web Apps on my Chromebook and MacBook nearly every day. If I saw that, I don't recall it. I would have said yes.

Each service on Microsoft collects its own data to be used to improve that application only. Your data is not shared across the services its not needed.

Google is one company, I have no problem being one profile to them. I know what they're doing, how many buckets they keep data in doesn't concern me.

But that data, if you say yes, is used by MS to build an ad profile. Display ads are in the privacy policy section of every single Bing service.

Regardless how many buckets your data is stored in, you are one single uniquely identified ad target on every service on the Internet that shows MS ads. Deny it, but advertising.Microsoft.com lays it all out for you.

Microsoft touch keyboard program collects your data to help you type better. Bing collects your data to make your Bing searches more accurate. Every bit of data Google collects is shared across all the Google services so that they can advertise to you more directly. They do this by monitoring every word you type in your email. They collect and monitor every word you type on Google+.

Microsoft has every word that I type in Outlook. They have access to everything I do on Facebook. They have every site that I go to thanks to Suggested Sites. They have every letter that I type into the address bar thanks to Instant Search Suggestions, even if I don't complete the search.

You've got a problem with the fact that Google keeps one profile on users while MS breaks that up across services. I get that, but it's a personal choice issue for me. I choose to do things the way that I do.

But I'll give you an example of how this containerized approach doesn't work for me. Enable search history on your desktop in Bing. Now, enable search history in Bing on your phone. Do a search on your phone. Look for that history on your desktop.

It's not there, and as someone that uses 7 total devices on a daily basis, that's not helpful for MS to segregate data that way.

Google never gives you any way to opt out. I pay $15 a year to have the adds removed from my Outlook account and I chose "NO" that means no one is monitoring my emails at all. Lets see you do that on Gmail.

Your email is monitored, or using more accurate terminology, machine indexed on Outlook just Like Gmail. Outlook has a slightly less effective search feature, so all of that data IS machine indexed.

And it's true, MS does say that the contents of your mail will not be used to show ads against in Outlook, but they don't say that the contents of your email won't be used to show you ads anywhere. In legal agreements, words are always chosen very carefully by the lawyers that write them.

Google sells adds to do that they tracks everything you do on all their services and will not give you the option. Microsoft will track you using your data to improve services if you allow it but Microsoft sells software. You can subscribe to almost every service Microsoft offers. You can also opt out of data collection.

Microsoft also sells ads. MS will even match your profile with information from Experian and Nielsen to better target ads that you see online and in your Xbox console. Experian is also a Target partner, and Target is world renowned for the work that they do profiling their customers.

I don't really see how A is better or more wholesome than B.

HERE is the big one Microsoft services don't share data. <That's a period right there.

Clearly, this is a huge deal for you, and I get that. For me, it's a distinction without a difference. MS creates different pools of data about me and stores it all separately. Google has one pool of data.

I don't have a problem with it. I don't.

[Ordeith]

So far, Microsoft hasn't claimed copyright of work you produce with their software like Google does.

Microsoft hasn't hacked their way around user privacy settings like Google does.

Microsoft actually honors do not track from their own products where setting do not track in Chrome only applies to non-google sites and services.

Microsoft isn't trying to get invasive hardware and software installed in ISP NOCs so they can track activity regardless of the client.

Today, Given Google or Microsoft, Microsoft is actually the lesser evil.

[ag1986]

No Microsoft does not you are wrong. That is not the question that was asked but I will address it anyways.

"Would you like to help Microsoft improve its services"

Have you ever seen this before? It us always fallowed by a "Yes or No" if you haven't seen this then you don't use Microsoft services. This is where you make the choice to allow that program to use your data. Here is the difference between Microsoft selling software and Google selling advertising. Each service on Microsoft collects its own data to be used to improve that application only. Your data is not shared across the services its not needed. Microsoft touch keyboard program collects your data to help you type better. Bing collects your data to make your Bing searches more accurate. Every bit of data Google collects is shared across all the Google services so that they can advertise to you more directly. They do this by monitoring every word you type in your email. They collect and monitor every word you type on Google+. Google never gives you any way to opt out. I pay $15 a year to have the adds removed from my Outlook account and I chose "NO" that means no one is monitoring my emails at all. Lets see you do that on Gmail.


We have this same conversation over and over with the same people. Google and Microsoft have 2 different business models. Google sells adds to do that they tracks everything you do on all their services and will not give you the option. Microsoft will track you using your data to improve services if you allow it but Microsoft sells software. You can subscribe to almost every service Microsoft offers. You can also opt out of data collection. HERE is the big one Microsoft services don't share data. <That's a period right there.


Its time to stop the bate and switch or maybe you need to do a little research so you know what you are talking about.

What Microsoft does is not "the exact same thing" if you don't know that you better do some research for your own good.

Going by your logic, MS is far worse; they have access to everything you do on any Windows PC, yes?

And you CAN pay for Gmail, just it's a little more complex - set up a Google Apps account, no ads plus you get email on your own domain.

[Nataku4ca]

But I'll give you an example of how this containerized approach doesn't work for me. Enable search history on your desktop in Bing. Now, enable search history in Bing on your phone. Do a search on your phone. Look for that history on your desktop.

IE Win8 seems to sync favorites together, im not sure if history is the same, but tbh this part has nothing to do with what you are arguing with him about is there? i mean syncing history together is one thing, but pulling that data for the company's own use is a different thing...

what Dave is saying is personal info not shared across the entities for selling, not that you shouldn't be able to to sync stuff with other services, heck PeopleHub came right down to my tablet when I got it (had the L800 first) and I didn't have to do anything extra, so that's syncing for sure.... oh and if u have multiple win8 computer and all use the same account to log in, wall paper and some of the settings get synced across too (with the option to turn them off of course) so they are making changes in that front for sure

[Nataku4ca]

Going by your logic, MS is far worse; they have access to everything you do on any Windows PC, yes?

And you CAN pay for Gmail, just it's a little more complex - set up a Google Apps account, no ads plus you get email on your own domain.

dude... please read their privacy statement and the link to what data are collected if you click yes... even "we" in the corporate IT can not handle the amount of data, that would generate oceans of data just for PCs on our internal network, I know for a fact that the most any company would keep track of is messaging/email, anything else would be overwhelming not just for storage but the network(not that some won't pick and choose things such as keeping a history of what's copied on to an USB drive... usually only companies that have highly confidential data does that though)