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  1. ohgood's Avatar
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    #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by sdrawkcabII View Post
    @ohgood
    You can't Windows Phone 8 has stagnated, not yet. It's way too early to say that. The OS is barely two months old, and as you've said already, sales reports have not been released yet. Just as you say it's too early to call it a success, it's also too early to call it stagnated. Yes, there is a shortage of Lumias, but Lumias aren't the only Windows 8 Phones out there.

    @the poster above you
    The virtual keyboard in WP8 also adjusts itself in its digital space to compensate for errors in typing.
    Sorry, my point was more for wp sales, not wp7 vs wp8 sales. They are -flat-, otherwise microsoft would be beating its chest like apple/google does. WP is stagnated, not just wp7 or 8. There is no measurable developer uptake, and no metrics to measure growth. The "shortage" of lumias would mean something if the sales numbers were released.
    awwwww how sweeeeeet. thanks !
  2. thyttel's Avatar
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    #77  
    I don't see that happening. First of, BlackBerry its only popular in the states. I've never ever seen a blackberry in Europe so if your world is not bigger than the US then sure it might kill Windows phone.
    But I hate to be the one to bring you the news, but the US is NOT the world and the US is just a tiny player in the phone market.
  3. ohgood's Avatar
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    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by thyttel View Post
    I don't see that happening. First of, BlackBerry its only popular in the states. I've never ever seen a blackberry in Europe so if your world is not bigger than the US then sure it might kill Windows phone.
    But I hate to be the one to bring you the news, but the US is NOT the world and the US is just a tiny player in the phone market.
    Your part of the world is small, just as mine. Each person has a very small cross section of the daily usage view of mobiles by the people around them. Its easy to become locally centric in ones views, and acceptable. That being said, I've seen very few blackberry devices lately, and no windows devices in months. It is either android, or ios, or occasionally, a flip phone.

    If you are seeing a very different cross section, by all means post em up :)
    awwwww how sweeeeeet. thanks !
  4. BellaRed's Avatar
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    #79  
    The Blackberry is very popular with kids here in the UK. I see folk with Blackberries' on the train still but its mainly iPhone and android. Lots of SGS3"s starting to appear.

    Interestingly I read a tweet today that said Nokia's no2 selling phone in China is the N9..... BB10 has copied a lot of the Meego Harmattan UI.
  5. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    #80  
    I am a BlackBerry guy, though I will more align to being a gadget guy. My GF's dad just got a Nokia Lumia and it's awesome. I prefer BB10 and Windows Phone 8 to Android personally and I'm starting to find my iOS devices are having tons of glitches.

    Quote Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
    It does not appear that BlackBerry will get Netflix.
    If you believe BlackBerry Scoops, it suggests that Netflix is working on it.

    and smartphone sales are definitely made up mostly by consumers not enterprise users.
    True, though most of RIM's sales are to consumers as well. It's a complete misnomer that "only business types use BlackBerry. It's been that way for years.

    RIM lost 1 million subscribers in the last quarter. It had 80 million subscribers previously, but is now down to 79 million subscribers. This was the first time in RIM's history that it ever reported a decline in subscribers. That's what caused the stock to tank the day after the earnings report.
    True, they declined from approximately 80 to 79 million. I think they actually did one other minor decline during the patent dispute with NNTP years ago, but yes. Let's be honest though, this was a rotten quarter and I'm surprised they held on as well as they did.

    If you aren't a BlackBerry user, why buy what they have on market now. If you are, why would you buy this, knowing BlackBerry 10 is coming?

    That said, 79 million active customers is a LOT more than Windows Phone has. Unless someone is willing to prove me wrong ...?

    And yes, I know that - in some markets - when consumer device sales in the past quarter to new users are measured - Windows Phone has actually pulled ahead (see my earlier point). But this is not the same thing as "more Windows Phone users than BlackBerry users". This trend could quite easily reverse quickly. It's like the iPhone sagging in "marketshare" the quarter before a new iPhone and then exploding in "marketshare".

    Know what's being measured.


    since it is going to lose money on its BIS fees too. The carriers will no longer be providing a flat subsidy fee for each subscriber as has always been the case. So RIM will lose its service revenues.
    No. Some carriers on some BlackBerry devices will pay less or not pay. It's not black or white. And those are high margin fees, not "money losing services".

    First of, BlackBerry its only popular in the states. I've never ever seen a blackberry in Europe so if your world is not bigger than the US then sure it might kill Windows phone.
    This is one of the most ill-informed comments I've ever seen on any forum.

    I'm pretty confident BB10 will at least dent WP8 mindshare and gobble up some marketshare no doubt about that but its going to be a back and forth battle between RIM and MS.
    As it should be! In the end, the consumer wins.

    Here's a thought? Why isn't there room for both?

    When I look at the mobile market right now, I see:

    - A big base of iOS
    - A big base of Android
    - 79 million BlackBerry users (seems big to me)
    - A huge, international Symbian market
    - Windows Phone emerging and growing

    I think the press is silly to that there's only room for two (or maybe three) ecosystems.

    Most of the world isn't even on a smartphone yet, hence why the Smartphone market is still exploding. Windows Phone is a pretty ballsy and awesome product and RIM is following suit by releasing an also cool product. If the market is still growing rapidly, why can't there be four? There are already!
    sirfly2fly likes this.
  6. cckgz4's Avatar
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    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by sirfly2fly View Post
    No1 knows what major appealing apps they will have... They also delayed to make sure no bugs ..don't put success or failure past them until 1/30/2013
    EH!

    That was the same excuse thrown around here for when windows phone 8 was being shown off in June but wasn't released till months later. Don't think all pushback are productive or meaningful
    Nokia Lumia 1020 owner here...

  7. blehblehbleh's Avatar
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    #82  
    I can't really comment having never used a blackberry device in the past, but what about the potential pricing fees for the services? Recently there's talk that the cost might be shoved onto the consumer/businesses rather than the carrier picking up the slack. They're going for tiered services too. If true that would play a role in success no?
  8. dogfish54's Avatar
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    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
    Sorry, my point was more for wp sales, not wp7 vs wp8 sales. They are -flat-, otherwise microsoft would be beating its chest like apple/google does. WP is stagnated, not just wp7 or 8. There is no measurable developer uptake, and no metrics to measure growth. The "shortage" of lumias would mean something if the sales numbers were released.
    They HAVE been beating their chest, saying there is 4X the sales of WP7:

    BALLMER: Windows Phone Sales Are 4X What They Were Last Year - Business Insider
  9. dogfish54's Avatar
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    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
    1 - you're including the lumia 920 in the same list of devices as the iphone and SGS3 ? why ? there are zero official sales reports on the 920, so there is no reason to include it in a list of 'camparible devices' other than someone likes the device. 2 - rim has done an excellent job in the past, then, just like microsoft, woke up late for the smartphone trends. they're in the same boat, microsoft and rim, right now. 3 - really ? hundreds of millions ? show me one single official source of current wp sales that is positive. not licenses, or predictions, but real official sales numbers. 4 - where ? ANDROID and IOS have the head start, windows phone is in exactly the same position as RIM, after wp abandoned their beta users (everyone that bought a wp7 device) , and wp8 is suffering the consequences. 5 - HAD. a good deal of corporate is or will be swapping to ios. 6 - liiiiiiiike, not giving developers the tools they need ahead of launch ? refusing to allow file managers ? refusing bluetooth transfers ? refusing sdcard access ? refusing to allow backups ? refusing to allow -everything- that ANDROID and IOS have been doing for YEARS ? oh wait, that's windows phone again... now my version:a soft response to BB launch from consumers. BBaddicts will snatch them up and any cost, discover the problems and shortcomings, and POST ABOUT THEM on blogs and dev centers. consumers will notice a few devices alongside the slew of ANDROID devices and very nice IPHONE displays. at this point, BB will have a few choices: a) stagnate (like windows phone) with developers by not responding to criticismsb) respond QUICKLY and with every opportunity to IMPROVE THE PLATFORM c) ignore all critiques and die a little moreI'm interested in BB because: it's a fresh OS.it has android market integrationit HAS a fanbaseit HAS potential to lure dev's back
    1. I am including the 920 because it's the best selling windows phone to date, it's also the third-best selling device at AT&T in the US, behind iphone5 and SGS3. US is just one market, but it's arguable the WEAKEST for Nokia
    3. Yes - hundreds of millions. Microsoft sold over a BILLION copies of Windows 7, even if Windows 8 sales are half of that, it will be over 500 million. They sold 40 million in the first month ... so it's not crazy - Windows 8 Sales: 40 Million Licenses Sold In First Month, Exec Says
    5. Looks like you are agreeing with me ...
    6. ahhh the old 'no file manager' argument. the file manager is intentionally left out, Bluetooth transfer exists for Nokia devices, SD card access is there, backups are there, not sure what '-everything-' you are referring to.

    I am really not sure how good BB10 will be or how well it will do, but it's an uphill battle. It has the same battle that Windows phone has / had, it's just starting to fight now. In the corporate environment, they are forcing us to install a new BES server. The good news for blackberry is that iPhone in the enterprise is far from perfect.
  10. ohgood's Avatar
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    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish54 View Post
    They HAVE been beating their chest, saying there is 4X the sales of WP7:

    BALLMER: Windows Phone Sales Are 4X What They Were Last Year - Business Insider
    No numbers. 4*_______ = y

    Microsoft isn't stating what the blank or the y actually is. Chest beating, is apple screaming about 3 MILLION SOLD FIRST 24 HOURS WOOHOOOOO !!! Or whatever the actual numbers were. THAT is chest beating, real numbers.
    awwwww how sweeeeeet. thanks !
    nube_android likes this.
  11. ohgood's Avatar
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    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish54 View Post
    1. I am including the 920 because it's the best selling windows phone to date, it's also the third-best selling device at AT&T in the US, behind iphone5 and SGS3. US is just one market, but it's arguable the WEAKEST for Nokia
    3. Yes - hundreds of millions. Microsoft sold over a BILLION copies of Windows 7, even if Windows 8 sales are half of that, it will be over 500 million. They sold 40 million in the first month ... so it's not crazy - Windows 8 Sales: 40 Million Licenses Sold In First Month, Exec Says
    5. Looks like you are agreeing with me ...
    6. ahhh the old 'no file manager' argument. the file manager is intentionally left out, Bluetooth transfer exists for Nokia devices, SD card access is there, backups are there, not sure what '-everything-' you are referring to.

    I am really not sure how good BB10 will be or how well it will do, but it's an uphill battle. It has the same battle that Windows phone has / had, it's just starting to fight now. In the corporate environment, they are forcing us to install a new BES server. The good news for blackberry is that iPhone in the enterprise is far from perfect.
    1 I have no idea how to quantify or argue this. I haven't seen any sales numbers for the 920 yet. Do you have a source ?

    3 I thought we were talking about windows phone sales ?

    6 no, not "backups" defined as "with approved computer, software, and delivery sytems" , but full os backups to sdcard. An image, which can be dumped and restored from, without the need of a computer or cloud to complete. Backup and restore to/from sdcard. Using an sdcard, and file manager to use, distribute, and collect your files as you like, not how a corporation defines are safe.
    awwwww how sweeeeeet. thanks !
  12. fatclue_98's Avatar
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    #87  
    It's been a while since I've been on these boards and I must say I didn't miss much. I see so much bickering and name-calling it makes me think I went to xda by mistake. WP8 is indeed a much better OS than 7.5, which was better than 7 and so on. But there are some serious shortcomngs that can't be overlooked. Less bt profiles than a feature phone, the inability to attach pdfs on email, a virtually non-existent notification system and lack of expansion are among my biggest gripes. Your mileage may vary. I'm using the latest Bold 9900 because no other phone gives me the best keyboard in the business, customizable alerts for everything, hotspot capability, NFC and the best use of bt MAP of any phone. Being able to send and receive SMS while on my laptop, without having to touch my phone, has become indispensable. All these features on one phone! If BB10 gives me all this and some Android apps I may never go back. Disagree with me all you like, but at least be objective.
  13. dogfish54's Avatar
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    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
    1 I have no idea how to quantify or argue this. I haven't seen any sales numbers for the 920 yet. Do you have a source ?

    3 I thought we were talking about windows phone sales ?

    6 no, not "backups" defined as "with approved computer, software, and delivery sytems" , but full os backups to sdcard. An image, which can be dumped and restored from, without the need of a computer or cloud to complete. Backup and restore to/from sdcard. Using an sdcard, and file manager to use, distribute, and collect your files as you like, not how a corporation defines are safe.
    1. No, I can't quantify this apart from: Amazon Best Sellers: best AT&T

    Lumia phones are at 3,4, 14 and 15 for ATT - 8X is at 17. Overall, Lumia is at 14th place.

    Also this: Lumia 920 sales 2012: AT&T’s No.3 smartphone is Lumia 920 | BGR

    Again, in my previous post I talked about AT&T only. But if you check out Nokiapoweruser.com you'll see countless stories of the 920 being in the top spot at carriers, e.g www.phonehouse.fr/top_50_ventes.php - Translator

    Lumia is currently at 3 and 4 but was 1,2 and 3 for a while. 8X is currently 9th.

    3. I did say Windows 8. To me that means Windows 8, not Windows Phone 8, but I can understand how that could be missed.

    6. I understand what you are saying, and if you need something like that, you are in a minority (in my opinion). If BB10 has that at launch, great for them, not something I need. The whole idea of the new platforms is that the data and apps are really independent of the OS, not a mish-mash like in Windows XP/7.
  14. dogfish54's Avatar
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    #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by fatclue98 View Post
    It's been a while since I've been on these boards and I must say I didn't miss much. I see so much bickering and name-calling it makes me think I went to xda by mistake. WP8 is indeed a much better OS than 7.5, which was better than 7 and so on. But there are some serious shortcomngs that can't be overlooked. Less bt profiles than a feature phone, the inability to attach pdfs on email, a virtually non-existent notification system and lack of expansion are among my biggest gripes. Your mileage may vary. I'm using the latest Bold 9900 because no other phone gives me the best keyboard in the business, customizable alerts for everything, hotspot capability, NFC and the best use of bt MAP of any phone. Being able to send and receive SMS while on my laptop, without having to touch my phone, has become indispensable. All these features on one phone! If BB10 gives me all this and some Android apps I may never go back. Disagree with me all you like, but at least be objective.
    I agree that a notification center is missing on Windows phone, it's a well-beaten horse. I didn't know that BB had all these things. My most recent experience with BB is trying to use a brand new curve as a loaner device, trying to make it work with straighttalk. I found out after many confusing menus that straighttalk doesn't 'support' blackberry devices. My GF is new to the BB platform after using both a Galaxy S and a Lumia 900. She now has a 920 and a Verizon BB (not sure of model). She will tell anyone who listens how much she hates the BB and how it was torture being subject to having 2 blackberries for a short period.

    Personally, I did like the mail app in the newer BB devices. Especially how all my facebook messages came into the mail view. But the app world, the desktop software and the browser all sucked in my opinion and are well behind all the competing platforms.

    BB10 looks promising and IS a real threat to windows phone, we'll have to see. By the end of January, WP8 might have a notification center and some other extras, making it even tougher for BB to differentiate. BB is so high-profile that they'll get slaughtered by the media if it's doesn't rocket in the first few months. We'll see, I've kinda had enough of talking about Blackberry for one day.
  15. Big Supes's Avatar
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    #90  
    BB has a loyal fan base in the UK, but it was mainly due to BBM and the physical keyboard. BBM is kinda redundant since cross-platform messaging apps have taken off and BB10 switches to full touchscreen...

    BB will be targeting a new demographic whilst potentially alienating their current users. For me, it's make or break.
    Google - "Don't be evil. . . much!"
  16. brmiller1976's Avatar
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       #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by crystal_planet View Post
    The fact that RIMM is still third is largely due to dumping cheap devices in emerging economies.
    As opposed to, say, dumping Lumia 920s in the USA at $99?
  17. brmiller1976's Avatar
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       #92  
    Or selling 1 cent Lumias through deep discount sites, and giving them away for free with a new China Unicom subscription?

    (Point being, "dumping" is not a complaint that Nokia can credibly make right now.)
  18. matthewgreyling's Avatar
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    #93  
    I predict BlackBerry and Windows phone to be the top 2 mobile computing platforms in the next 3 years :)

    All things aside, BlackBerry 10 looks really good. I also like where MS is going with WP, and Windows 8 for that matter. 2013 should be an exciting one!
    nube_android likes this.
  19. astraith's Avatar
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    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by ClixT View Post
    You're comparing ALL off RIM's sales to Nokia's Lumia line.. Nokia sold way more phones the RIM did.. "BlackBerry smartphone shipments declined in Q3 2012; the company shipped 6.9 million smartphones" (dazeinfo.com). "[Nokia] Mobile Phones Q3 volumes increased quarter-on-quarter to 77 million units; strong sales start for new Asha full touch smartphones, with volumes of 6.5 million units" (Nokia)
    Yeah I know it's about BB10 v Lumia WP8. I think we should wait for BB10 to get released. Then we compare and contrast the numbers. (BB10's 1st 3 month sales v Lumia WP8 1st 3 month sales)
    I must say, that is not fair. First, RIM shipped over 7 million units (http://bgr.com/2012/11/08/smartphone-market-share-q3-2012/). I am still sure Nokia outsold in total, but there major push was the Lumia line. I can't find the numbers for SMARTphone sales for Nokia 2012, but RIM is still doing well ... just not as well.
  20. sdrawkcabII's Avatar
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    #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by thyttel View Post
    I don't see that happening. First of, BlackBerry its only popular in the states. I've never ever seen a blackberry in Europe so if your world is not bigger than the US then sure it might kill Windows phone. But I hate to be the one to bring you the news, but the US is NOT the world and the US is just a tiny player in the phone market.
    Wrong! In the Caribbean and Latin America, BB is very popular still. In Trinidad, BB is the most common smartphone, without a measure of doubt. It's slowly being phased out by Android OS though. The ONLY reason BB is popular here is because of BBM. But WP8 Rooms, and cross-platform apps like WhatsApp may put a stop to BBM's popularity.
  21. mapleleafs89's Avatar
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    #96  
    As a developer, I was set on WP8 and a 920 for months. After reading the 920 forum about the resets and other problems people are having I am considering to just wait and perhaps look at a BB10 device. Whichever device I purchase, I will be developing for that platform.
    SHOBOKSHY likes this.
  22. SHOBOKSHY's Avatar
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    #97  
    I bought Microsoft Surface, and I assure you it has a lot of bugs. Although they are getting fixed over time, but there are these small details in the OS itself which are really annoying.

    It is really closed minded to say BlackBerry 10 is just another clone of Android and iPhone, or that it is too late. BB10 will probably kill the home button for example. The way you can multitask and flow between apps and your messages is just not available in any device right now.

    Here are the things I dont like about Windows 8 RT:

    1) The messaging app and the Peoples Hub app are soo buggy. I barely use them anymore.
    2) Apps sometimes just randomly crash while I am using them, even native apps too.
    3) Most of the apps are soo bad. Like (Wordpress, StumbleUpon, Maps.) Major apps are not even there. like Facebook, Twitter and Youtube. It is sooo frustrating.
    3) Notifications sucks. There isnt even one place to check all notifs at once.
    4) IE10 is great, but needs a lot of improvement.

    This was my though process. If BlackBerry does bad, I will be switching to Windows Phone. After I have used Microsoft Surface I really doubt buying any Windows product. To be honest my 3 years old BlackBerry can do more.
    Flip4Bytes likes this.
  23. fatclue_98's Avatar
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    #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish54 View Post
    I agree that a notification center is missing on Windows phone, it's a well-beaten horse. I didn't know that BB had all these things. My most recent experience with BB is trying to use a brand new curve as a loaner device, trying to make it work with straighttalk. I found out after many confusing menus that straighttalk doesn't 'support' blackberry devices. My GF is new to the BB platform after using both a Galaxy S and a Lumia 900. She now has a 920 and a Verizon BB (not sure of model). She will tell anyone who listens how much she hates the BB and how it was torture being subject to having 2 blackberries for a short period.

    Personally, I did like the mail app in the newer BB devices. Especially how all my facebook messages came into the mail view. But the app world, the desktop software and the browser all sucked in my opinion and are well behind all the competing platforms.

    BB10 looks promising and IS a real threat to windows phone, we'll have to see. By the end of January, WP8 might have a notification center and some other extras, making it even tougher for BB to differentiate. BB is so high-profile that they'll get slaughtered by the media if it's doesn't rocket in the first few months. We'll see, I've kinda had enough of talking about Blackberry for one day.
    Actually, NFC and hotspot are the only new features from OS7. The other features I mentioned have been around since OS5. I guess what really irks most consumers is the upcharge for BIS. I'm on Simple Mobile and my plan is the same 4G (HSPA) unlimited you get with an Android phone for the same $50. Yes, the browser sucks but with BB's data compression it seems faster than anything else. Opera Mini feels like LTE on steroids. I thank you for not flaming the heck out of me.
  24. thekonger's Avatar
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    #99  
    Nope.
  25. astraith's Avatar
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    #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by crystal_planet View Post
    The fact that RIMM is still third is largely due to dumping cheap devices in emerging economies. In the Americas and Europe WP has a better market share. Nokia is on the cusp of releasing its own array of low cost, low frills handsets in these economies and will give BlackBerry a run for its money very soon. BB10 won't sniff these markets, as it is a high end handset, so RIMM will continue to dump cheap Curves running BB6 there.
    And,if they replace the Curve with a new low cost BB10 device, is that not good for RIM?
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