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  1. tekhna's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    Exactly. Also a technical fail.

    MS' services were never broken off or detached from one another, as they never belonged to a single coherent whole. Being a fragment of something implies having belonged to an unfragmented whole at some point, which MS' individual services never did.
    No, because both of us were thinking of isolated, as your original post reflected. But semantics aside, Google has an ecosystem that allows for Now to work. Microsoft doesn't.
  2. arrowrand's Avatar
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    What MS couldn't / wouldn't do is surface that ticket offer based on an e-mail you wrote.
    You meant to say what Microsoft would do, if they could, would be the exact same thing.

    Until this Scroogle thing runs it's course, MS can't do anything nearly as useful as Now.

    Call it useless or creepy or anything else that you like. If you use it, it's a very helpful feature.
  3. 1101x10's Avatar
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    #28  
    It seems like a good money making opportunity for Google. Retailers pay so when you go in their shop it gives you the special offers etc. I'm not sure I like the privacy aspect of this service though.
    I seem to remember before WP8 came out Microsoft had a video of a Windows Phone doing something similar to this so maybe they are working on it.
  4. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by tekhna View Post
    No, because both of us were thinking of isolated, as your original post reflected. But semantics aside, Google has an ecosystem that allows for Now to work. Microsoft doesn't.
    If you were also thinking "isolated", why not just say so? Why the attitude, and why quote the definition of a completely different and, more importantly, negatively charged word?

    No, forget I asked...

    Anyway, it is obvious that precisely the use-case you were so impressed by, isn't at all beyond Microsoft's reach. Without a concrete example of something Google can achieve only by accessing their aggregated, server side user profiles, I would suspect you are mistaken.

    The only difference I see is where aggregated user profiles are generated and stored, either on users devices (MS), or on company servers (Google).
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  5. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by arrowrand View Post
    You meant to say what Microsoft would do, if they could, would be the exact same thing.

    Until this Scroogle thing runs it's course, MS can't do anything nearly as useful as Now.
    No. I meant to say exactly what I did say.

    I understand your views of MS and Google but I don't share them. I don't think we need to take that issue any further either.

    In regard to the topic at hand, if you believe MS can't do anything as useful, you will need to back that up with an example of what Google Now might achieve that Microsoft can't. You may even be right, but I don't see it. Otherwise I'm going to view this as hot Google-Fan air. ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by arrowrand View Post
    Call it useless or creepy or anything else that you like. If you use it, it's a very helpful feature.
    Are you still addressing that towards me? I didn't call "it" any of those things. In fact, I like it and don't think it's creepy.
  6. DaveDash's Avatar
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    #31  
    Google now (outside the US) is not a "must have" feature.

    When I first got my Google Nexus I thought "wow, cool", but after a while I never really used it at all. Integrating with your calendar and warning you about traffic is neat, but it's so unreliably anyway that it's just a gimmic. Also, sifting through your gmail and other applications and being "proactive" about things you'd searched for just got annoying, and somewhat scary (in terms of privacy) at the same time.

    The *only* thing that Google really has over Microsoft is Google maps. Google maps is THE most accurate mapping system world wide, and mapping systems ARE the most widely used app on mobile devices. Microsoft should focus on improving it's mapping service along with it's OEM partners mapping services, well before worrying about Google Now.
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  7. mlm1950's Avatar
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    #32  
    Didn't I see something like this in "Minority Report"?
  8. Jazmac's Avatar
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    #33  
    Meh. If the market says we want this, Microsoft will have it in due course. No rush.
  9. arrowrand's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    In regard to the topic at hand, if you believe MS can't do anything as useful, you will need to back that up with an example of what Google Now might achieve that Microsoft can't. You may even be right, but I don't see it. Otherwise I'm going to view this as hot Google-Fan air. ;-)
    Here are my examples, from just this week, why MS CAN'T do anything nearly as useful as Google Now thanks to their Scroogle campaign.

    1. Tracking updates for 3 high value UPS shipments. Tracking info picked up from Gmail.
    2. Wife's flight was delayed. Thanks to her itinerary being emailed to me, Google Now let me know she would be 45 minutes later than scheduled.
    3. Had a meeting this week an hour from house. Google Now alerted me to traffic conditions caused by weather, letting me know I needed another 30 minutes to get there. Info came from Google Calendar and Gmail. Ended up I only needed an extra 10 minutes, but I'd prefer to be early rather than late.

    That's all stuff that MS can't do thanks to Mark Penn and his Scroogle campaign against Google. Once that runs its course and everyone has mostly forgotten all about it, MS can (and let's be honest, probably will) bring some smart personal assistant features to WP. Until then, well, we get what we have.
    Am I aware of the privacy concerns of using Google services? Yes, yes I am. Am I OK with it? Yes, yes I am.

    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    Are you still addressing that towards me? I didn't call "it" any of those things. In fact, I like it and don't think it's creepy.
    Uh, no, I'm not. That's a broad-based response to all of those comments made in the thread. I'm often guilty of this mistake of seemingly directing a comment at one person in particular when it is a response to a larger group. My fault.
  10. arrowrand's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveDash View Post
    Google now (outside the US) is not a "must have" feature.
    I'm an American and I live in the US. My experiences with Google Now are based solely on my own use of it, in the United States.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveDash View Post
    Integrating with your calendar and warning you about traffic is neat, but it's so unreliably anyway that it's just a gimmic. Also, sifting through your gmail and other applications and being "proactive" about things you'd searched for just got annoying, and somewhat scary (in terms of privacy) at the same time.
    You can turn off cards that surface search results, and it's not an all or nothing experience. You can have events and locations that you've searched for active while disabling what I think they call research topics.

    Here's the thing: if MS rolled this feature out today, most people (including me) would welcome it. Privacy implications might be mentioned in passing, but folks would be accepting of the fact that MS would offer something like Google Now, even though it meant pulling data from calendars, Outlook mail and search history. I trust Google, and I trust Microsoft. It isn't that I trust Google more than Microsoft, it's that Google offers me insanely useful features. If MS began using the info that they collect about me in the same way, I'd welcome that, Happily.
  11. Torch4x4's Avatar
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    #36  
    What I understand is: for better results on Google Now you should use gmail, google search, google calendar, and all google ecosystem... ok I like the Scout app or other apps on WP8 even if they collect my likes from facebook or locations or whatever, is not so bad, the problem is that if I move to android I still prefer some MS products over google products...
    However a simple search for instance a camera or a watch using google now will result in ads for me almost forever, even after I buy those products or if I change my mind and decide not to buy I will continue receiving those ads like the current google search on the web browser? google is an advertisement company and is not providing those wonderful things for free...
  12. slashd0t's Avatar
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    #37  
    Google Now is freaking amazing.. I'm in Cupertino right now (irony) and I was on google maps on my laptop getting directions back to SFO airport tomorrow... I picked up my Nexus 4 a few hours later, was on Google Now, and it had the directions to SFO integrated already for me.. I didn't prompt this, but, it knew that I was going to be doing the drive based on me looking it up earlier..

    Google Now is seriously the most important mobile innovation in the last year IMO ..
    arrowrand likes this.
  13. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by arrowrand View Post
    Here are my examples, from just this week:
    <snipped>
    1. Tracking updates for 3 high value UPS shipments. Tracking info picked up from Gmail.
    2. Wife's flight was delayed. Thanks to her itinerary being emailed to me, Google Now let me know she would be 45 minutes later than scheduled.
    3. Had a meeting this week an hour from house. Google Now alerted me to traffic conditions caused by weather, letting me know I needed another 30 minutes to get there. Info came from Google Calendar and Gmail. Ended up I only needed an extra 10 minutes, but I'd prefer to be early rather than late.
    Awesome examples! However, I see no reason why MS couldn't do all of that and more.

    It appears you expect such features must be implemented server-side, when in truth the only reason Google does this server-side is because that is what is necessary for them to earn money. If you aren't collecting and selling that data, then it is much cheaper to implement such features client-side, i.e. on users own personal devices.

    As long as the data collected by those profiling routines stays on my devices, Microsoft can scan my mails as much as they want without raising any red privacy flags. Explain to my why this can't work and I'll believe you have a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by arrowrand View Post
    That's all stuff that MS can't do thanks to Mark Penn and his Scroogle campaign against Google.
    We also couldn't disagree more on the importance of this Scroogle campaign. You seem to think it has the power to dictate Microsoft's policies and strategies, whereas I think it is completely irrelevant. Either way, I don't think Microsoft is forced to degrade any privacy policies to compete with Google Now. Only the methods by which they collect that information will differ, which is fine, as long as Microsoft doesn't also intend to become a competitor in the advertising business.
  14. palandri's Avatar
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    #39  
    I bought a Nexus 4 to play with. You guys are making Google Now sound like it has a brain of it's own. It doesn't, it's dependant on data from a 3rd party.

    It doesn't know about traffic jams unless that information is available through your DOT. It doesn't know about trains or planes being late unless that information is available from a 3rd party. My wife and I fly from time to time, we always signup for SMS alerts. It does the same thing.
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  15. WinFan1's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee Mon View Post
    "Putting aside the understandably troubling aspects of Googles knowledge about you for a moment, Google Now is a revelation."??? Personally I find this creepy. I certainly do not want a HAL9000 monitoring and recording my every movement. If this is the way all smartphones are going, I'm going to dumb down back to a feature phone. I'd feel much safer. I doubt Microsoft would be allowed to do the same thing without getting sued for invasion of privacy.
    Thank YOU! i can not fathom how people are so fine with a advertisement giant spying and learning what they do every single day. i do enjoy my privacy, that is absolutely not something i would ever use. even more reason to stay away from google. i would much rather have siri than this spyware on my phone. This is the problem people have today they want their phone to do everything for them EVERYTHING, people thats why we have arms, legs, eyes, and ears what the heck do people expect their phones to hold their junk when they use the restroom? this dependance on tech for everything is disturbing. i use my phone for productivity and recieving information when i need it. 'Nuff Said.
    Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.- Plato

  16. arrowrand's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by a5cent View Post
    It appears you expect such features must be implemented server-side, when in truth the only reason Google does this server-side is because that is what is necessary for them to earn money. If you aren't collecting and selling that data, then it is much cheaper to implement such features client-side, i.e. on users own personal devices.
    Aside from app size and overhead of a client side app doing all of this work on my device, there's storage and a real risk of data from phone to tablet being different. You have your preferences and I have mine, but if client side (on phone and tablet) were so easy it would already be done by MS, BlackBerry and Apple.

    As long as the data collected by those profiling routines stays on my devices, Microsoft can scan my mails as much as they want without raising any red privacy flags. Explain to my why this can't work and I'll believe you have a point.
    MS is already scanning your email and storing that information on their servers.

    We also couldn't disagree more on the importance of this Scroogle campaign. You seem to think it has the power to dictate Microsoft's policies and strategies, whereas I think it is completely irrelevant. Either way, I don't think Microsoft is forced to degrade any privacy policies to compete with Google Now. Only the methods by which they collect that information will differ, which is fine, as long as Microsoft doesn't also intend to become a competitor in the advertising business.
    To compete with Google Now MS would have to unify your profile within the service to bring it all together, and suddenly they're doing more with your data than they originally claimed.

    Scroogle would absolutely interfere with Bing Now unless or until MS does away with it.

    And MS is already a competitor in the ad business. They may not be using your email to sell ads against, but ads that you see on Bing or sites displaying MS ads are absolutely influenced by your Web history.

    MS is a very short leap from using Outlook.com mail contents to improve their ad targeting, and revenue.
  17. arrowrand's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Torch4x4 View Post
    However a simple search for instance a camera or a watch using google now will result in ads for me almost forever, even after I buy those products or if I change my mind and decide not to buy I will continue receiving those ads like the current google search on the web browser? google is an advertisement company and is not providing those wonderful things for free...
    MS sells ads against your Bing history. You're still going to see ads based on those searches that you mentioned.
  18. arrowrand's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    It doesn't know about traffic jams unless that information is available through your DOT. It doesn't know about trains or planes being late unless that information is available from a 3rd party. My wife and I fly from time to time, we always signup for SMS alerts. It does the same thing.
    Actually, a lot of Google Maps traffic data is crowd sourced, but so what. Google Now pulls together information that isn't easily accessible and presents it (in what I think) is a very useful way.

    On the flight alert thing, yeah it would have been so much more convenient to sign up for text alerts with 3 airlines as opposed to just hearing Google Now alert me. Hands off is such a PIA.
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  19. tk-093's Avatar
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    #44  
    I think Google Now is pretty cool, but living in a smaller populated area, a lot of the cool things like telling me when to leave for meetings and stuff don't really impact me. For those who used the UPS type features... is it scanning your server Gmail, or just the email on your local device? If I buy something using my Live email address does Google Now just get that info from my local device, or does it have to be a GMail account? I know with calendar ETA it is just looking at my local device since I use my Live calender for that and it works just fine.

    It doesn't matter either way to me where it is scanning, but if its reading the device info, it makes it pretty easy for Apple or MS to come up with their own version and not care about having all the services integrated.
  20. tk-093's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    It doesn't know about traffic jams unless that information is available through your DOT.
    I've looked into it a little bit and I think a lot of their traffic info actually comes from Android devices. There are millions of those devices out there broadcasting their info back to Google and if a bunch are on a road and all start to slow down I think that has an impact on how traffic is displayed for people.

    Where I live I don't really deal with traffic, but when I visited my sister out in San Fran, the Google traffic stuff was pretty darn accurate.

    I have no idea how much of an impact the "crowd sourced" traffic data plays on maps, but I think it's pretty awesome. Part of me thinks it's one of those things that for the good of everybody that all the mobile OS's should report their data to one location and so it would improve traffic report for everybody. Make everything safer and easier to get around.
  21. arrowrand's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by tk-093 View Post
    For those who used the UPS type features... is it scanning your server Gmail, or just the email on your local device?
    AFAIK, it's all server side scanning.

    You make it sound like you're getting Google Now alerts based on your Live calendar from your phone, is that correct?

    If it is, then obviously they're pulling in data from your phone as well.
  22. tk-093's Avatar
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by arrowrand View Post
    AFAIK, it's all server side scanning.

    You make it sound like you're getting Google Now alerts based on your Live calendar from your phone, is that correct?

    If it is, then obviously they're pulling in data from your phone as well.
    Yep. I get ETA alerts based off my @live.com account on my GS3. Which is cool. I'll have to come up with a reason to order something via UPS to see if it reads my local Live email. :)
  23. palandri's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by tk-093 View Post
    I've looked into it a little bit and I think a lot of their traffic info actually comes from Android devices. There are millions of those devices out there broadcasting their info back to Google and if a bunch are on a road and all start to slow down I think that has an impact on how traffic is displayed for people.

    Where I live I don't really deal with traffic, but when I visited my sister out in San Fran, the Google traffic stuff was pretty darn accurate.

    I have no idea how much of an impact the "crowd sourced" traffic data plays on maps, but I think it's pretty awesome. Part of me thinks it's one of those things that for the good of everybody that all the mobile OS's should report their data to one location and so it would improve traffic report for everybody. Make everything safer and easier to get around.
    Come on. That's like saying it scans GPS positions of Android phones on train 569, then calculates it's 30 minute late and sends an alert out to all the people with Androids waiting for train 569, by their GPS position that it's 30 minutes late according to their latest Crowd Source data calculations.
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  24. JerseySal's Avatar
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    #49  
    Oh look. My phone is telling me where I'm at, what surrounds me, and where I should go and what I should do next...as if my eyes, ears, and brain, don't work anymore
    ~Sal
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    #50  
    As Chris Rock said "don't fear Al-Qaeda, fear Al-Cracka". The "man" is definitely watching. Don't believe me? Resist the urge to do anything data-related on your phone for about 6 hours, monitor your data usage and see just how much background data is transmitted.
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